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There are things more important than money. Maybe the China market isn't worth sacrificing one's values for. It's not like they want to you to succeed in thei

There are things more important than money. Maybe the China market isn't worth sacrificing one's values for. It's not like they want to you to succeed in their market, anyway. And if the company is willing to sacrifice its values, then clearly those weren't its actual values.

chrischen 8y ago
What values are those? The value of treating China as the enemy simply because? "The position of PRC is that the ROC and PRC are two different factions in the Chinese Civil War, which never legally ended. Therefore the PRC claims that both factions belong to the same sovereign country—China. Since, as per the PRC, Taiwan's sovereignty belongs to China, the PRC's government and supporters believe that the secession of Taiwan should be agreed upon by all 1.3 billion Chinese citizens instead of just the 23 million residents of Taiwan.[15] Furthermore, the position of PRC is that UN General Assembly Resolution 2758, which states "Recognizing that the representatives of the Government of the People's Republic of China are the only lawful representatives of China to the United Nations", means that the PRC is recognized as having the sovereignty of all of China, including Taiwan." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan Basically a bunch of the wealthy class fled to Taiwan, claimed the land, also claimed all of China and Mongolia (to this day), yet denied citizenship to the billions of Chinese people on the mainland (only overseas/wealthy Chinese were allowed Republic of China citizenship).
- Aeolun 8y ago
  I don’t think the origins of the country really matter. Present day Taiwan is a country in literally everything but name. That is silly in my opinion.
  - CogitoCogito 8y ago
    I agree with you in principle, but I'd go further. The ROC certainly _is_ a country in name as well. It doesn't have relations with all the world's governments, but neither does e.g. the US nor the PRC. The origins aren't really that special anyway. The conflict between the PRC and ROC is really a conflict between two governments over borders. The correct parallel is something like India and Pakistan or North and South Korea. The PRC (mostly...also some people in the ROC) like to act like their case is some mystical historical wrong that must be righted, but it's really not special in any way. The PRC wants to annex its neighbor and uses propaganda in an attempt to make themselves look noble. It's a standard playbook.
    - chrischen 8y ago
      let’s say there was revolution in the US right now because of the anti 1% movement. The 99%, having voting control of congress decide to enact some laws that greatly redistribute wealth from the 1%. Let’s say in order to protect themselves the 1% decide to all move to one city (new york), and take all their wealth with them, and form a new country out of this piece of the USA. Seems like a giant loophole because the 99% are still poor even though they’ve “won” the war for the US, but lost a crucial, albeit tiny, piece of land which contains the majority of US wealth. You can bet the 99% would fight to take back NYC as well as all the wealth sequestered there by the 1%. The fundamental reasoning behind China’s claim to Taiwan is not just the physical land, but also the claim of legacy wealth that was taken from China and moved there, which was why the revolution happened in the first place. A small but meaningful piece of the country cannot simply decide to setup a rogue government to avoid persecution from the law, just like how it would not be tolerated if a bunch of wealthy 1% decided to form their own country within the US (from US land they take) just to avoid being taxed.
      - CogitoCogito 8y ago
        This is non-sense. Firstly stop resorting to weird hypotheticals when you can just let the current facts speak for themselves. The PRC simply has never governed Taiwan, Kinmen, etc. Secondly it wasn't the ROC that set up a rouge government, it was the PRC! Of course the PRC will say whatever to try to make it's claims legitimate (just as the ROC did in decades past), but none of it changes the fact that they are two separate countries and have been separate for almost 70 years. The PRC is trying to act like it's special, but it's just following the same playbook that countries have followed for thousands of years: claim some other country as their own because "reasons" and then try to make their political and military aggression somehow seem justified. But that doesn't change the fact that the PRC is just trying to take over another country when it could easily and fruitfully co-exist fruitfully with it. It's shameful and shameful that people like you would support such nonsense. Maybe as a summary here is my message to all those trying to argue for continued aggression between the PRC and ROC: Just stop and support an official peace treaty you power-hungry maniacs. Stop trying to pretend your support for a resumption of war between the states is justified when de facto peace has existed for so long. Just stop.
gambiting 8y ago
Well, China isn't our only market, far far from it. It's extremely niche in fact - but users have asked us to make a Chinese version of some of our products, so we did. Alternatively, we could have said to those users that we won't provide a localised Chinese version of the product because of political reasons. At the end of the day, I don't make these decisions - I'm just a programmer writing code.
- saiya-jin 8y ago
  Wouldn't it be enough to exclude Taiwan from the interface only for China-based IPs?
  - gambiting 8y ago
    Well, it's a physical product. The version shipped to china is the only one that doesn't have Taiwan in the user creation menu.
- justtopost 8y ago
  Man, this kind of comment just baits godwins law.
fipple 8y ago
My values don’t contain anything about Taiwan. I’ll call whatever you want because I don’t think I have nearly enough contextual knowledge to know who is “right” and “wrong” in that conflict.
- jobigoud 8y ago
  Basically from my understanding: at the fall of the last Chinese dynasty in 1912 a republic was created. Then after the communists took power, that republic exiled to Taiwan, that was in 1949. Current day China is still trying to eradicate that original republic.
- fwsgonzo 8y ago
  You have a vast amount of knowledge at your fingertips. There is a difference between a dystopian authoritarian country like China, with "reintegration" camps for Uighurs and "re-education" camps for people who speaks out against the single-party system - and Taiwan, which doesn't. There is no both sides, and saying there is is incredibly disingenuous.
- jstanley 8y ago
  It's pretty obvious that the Chinese government is "wrong" on this one. Whether Taiwan is a real country or not, banning references to it is just tyrranical. Imagine if the US banned you from selling software that made reference to the lost city of Atlantis. Clearly wrong.
  - chosenbreed37 8y ago
    > It's pretty obvious that the Chinese government is "wrong" on this one. I don't think it is that obvious. Particularly if you take into account China's long history
    - jstanley 8y ago
      Regardless of any country's history, it is not reasonable to ban people from selling software that acknowledges the existence of a country. Even if that country does not exist. Even if you don't take a stand on whether Taiwan is a real country or not, it is wrong to ban people from selling software that purports that Taiwan is a real country. How is this not obvious?

chrischen 8y ago

What values are those? The value of treating China as the enemy simply because? "The position of PRC is that the ROC and PRC are two different factions in the Chinese Civil War, which never legally ended. Therefore the PRC claims that both factions belong to the same sovereign country—China. Since, as per the PRC, Taiwan's sovereignty belongs to China, the PRC's government and supporters believe that the secession of Taiwan should be agreed upon by all 1.3 billion Chinese citizens instead of just the 23 million residents of Taiwan.[15] Furthermore, the position of PRC is that UN General Assembly Resolution 2758, which states "Recognizing that the representatives of the Government of the People's Republic of China are the only lawful representatives of China to the United Nations", means that the PRC is recognized as having the sovereignty of all of China, including Taiwan." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan Basically a bunch of the wealthy class fled to Taiwan, claimed the land, also claimed all of China and Mongolia (to this day), yet denied citizenship to the billions of Chinese people on the mainland (only overseas/wealthy Chinese were allowed Republic of China citizenship).

Aeolun 8y ago
I don’t think the origins of the country really matter. Present day Taiwan is a country in literally everything but name. That is silly in my opinion.
- CogitoCogito 8y ago
  I agree with you in principle, but I'd go further. The ROC certainly _is_ a country in name as well. It doesn't have relations with all the world's governments, but neither does e.g. the US nor the PRC. The origins aren't really that special anyway. The conflict between the PRC and ROC is really a conflict between two governments over borders. The correct parallel is something like India and Pakistan or North and South Korea. The PRC (mostly...also some people in the ROC) like to act like their case is some mystical historical wrong that must be righted, but it's really not special in any way. The PRC wants to annex its neighbor and uses propaganda in an attempt to make themselves look noble. It's a standard playbook.
  - chrischen 8y ago
    let’s say there was revolution in the US right now because of the anti 1% movement. The 99%, having voting control of congress decide to enact some laws that greatly redistribute wealth from the 1%. Let’s say in order to protect themselves the 1% decide to all move to one city (new york), and take all their wealth with them, and form a new country out of this piece of the USA. Seems like a giant loophole because the 99% are still poor even though they’ve “won” the war for the US, but lost a crucial, albeit tiny, piece of land which contains the majority of US wealth. You can bet the 99% would fight to take back NYC as well as all the wealth sequestered there by the 1%. The fundamental reasoning behind China’s claim to Taiwan is not just the physical land, but also the claim of legacy wealth that was taken from China and moved there, which was why the revolution happened in the first place. A small but meaningful piece of the country cannot simply decide to setup a rogue government to avoid persecution from the law, just like how it would not be tolerated if a bunch of wealthy 1% decided to form their own country within the US (from US land they take) just to avoid being taxed.
    - CogitoCogito 8y ago
      This is non-sense. Firstly stop resorting to weird hypotheticals when you can just let the current facts speak for themselves. The PRC simply has never governed Taiwan, Kinmen, etc. Secondly it wasn't the ROC that set up a rouge government, it was the PRC! Of course the PRC will say whatever to try to make it's claims legitimate (just as the ROC did in decades past), but none of it changes the fact that they are two separate countries and have been separate for almost 70 years. The PRC is trying to act like it's special, but it's just following the same playbook that countries have followed for thousands of years: claim some other country as their own because "reasons" and then try to make their political and military aggression somehow seem justified. But that doesn't change the fact that the PRC is just trying to take over another country when it could easily and fruitfully co-exist fruitfully with it. It's shameful and shameful that people like you would support such nonsense. Maybe as a summary here is my message to all those trying to argue for continued aggression between the PRC and ROC: Just stop and support an official peace treaty you power-hungry maniacs. Stop trying to pretend your support for a resumption of war between the states is justified when de facto peace has existed for so long. Just stop.

gambiting 8y ago

Well, China isn't our only market, far far from it. It's extremely niche in fact - but users have asked us to make a Chinese version of some of our products, so we did. Alternatively, we could have said to those users that we won't provide a localised Chinese version of the product because of political reasons. At the end of the day, I don't make these decisions - I'm just a programmer writing code.

saiya-jin 8y ago
Wouldn't it be enough to exclude Taiwan from the interface only for China-based IPs?
- gambiting 8y ago
  Well, it's a physical product. The version shipped to china is the only one that doesn't have Taiwan in the user creation menu.
justtopost 8y ago
Man, this kind of comment just baits godwins law.

fipple 8y ago

My values don’t contain anything about Taiwan. I’ll call whatever you want because I don’t think I have nearly enough contextual knowledge to know who is “right” and “wrong” in that conflict.

jobigoud 8y ago
Basically from my understanding: at the fall of the last Chinese dynasty in 1912 a republic was created. Then after the communists took power, that republic exiled to Taiwan, that was in 1949. Current day China is still trying to eradicate that original republic.
fwsgonzo 8y ago
You have a vast amount of knowledge at your fingertips. There is a difference between a dystopian authoritarian country like China, with "reintegration" camps for Uighurs and "re-education" camps for people who speaks out against the single-party system - and Taiwan, which doesn't. There is no both sides, and saying there is is incredibly disingenuous.
jstanley 8y ago
It's pretty obvious that the Chinese government is "wrong" on this one. Whether Taiwan is a real country or not, banning references to it is just tyrranical. Imagine if the US banned you from selling software that made reference to the lost city of Atlantis. Clearly wrong.
- chosenbreed37 8y ago
  > It's pretty obvious that the Chinese government is "wrong" on this one. I don't think it is that obvious. Particularly if you take into account China's long history
  - jstanley 8y ago
    Regardless of any country's history, it is not reasonable to ban people from selling software that acknowledges the existence of a country. Even if that country does not exist. Even if you don't take a stand on whether Taiwan is a real country or not, it is wrong to ban people from selling software that purports that Taiwan is a real country. How is this not obvious?