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Arborists Have Cloned Ancient Redwoods from Their Massive Stumps
- ZachWick 8y agoI went to a planting a few years ago put on by this same group in Ann Arbor, MI at the Nichols Arboretum [0]. It was pretty inspiring to see a real living clone and hear David Milarch speak about the science and art of cloning these old growth trees. IIRC, the clones planted in Ann Arbor are from one of the Giant Sequoias at [1] in northern MI. [0] http://sustainability.umich.edu/events/sequoia-planting http://sustainability.umich.edu/events/sequoia-planting [1] https://www.michigan.org/property/lake-bluff-bird-sanctuary https://www.michigan.org/property/lake-bluff-bird-sanctuary
- User23 8y agoI always wonder how grafting and budding were discovered.
- josefresco 8y agoThis might help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafting#History,_society_and_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafting#History,_society_and_...
- User23 8y agoThanks for the link. I meant in a more narrative sense though. I like to imagine that some fool cut down a tree and changed his or her mind and tried to stick it back together and lo and behold it worked.
- nicwilson 8y agoWow! That is one big tree.
- newnewpdro 8y agoThis isn't the Wooly Mammoth. My impression is we already have the same species of Redwoods living today, they just need a lot more years of growth to reach such epic proportions. Am I missing something?
- Cthulhu_ 8y agoI wonder the same; did they 'clone' the tree, or just propagate the saplings? I think the latter is a lot more believable and less clickbait.
- thaumasiotes 8y agoThe article specifies that they took cuttings, a pretty ancient technology. But the fact that the technology is old doesn't mean it's not cloning. Plants are easy to clone.
- stochastic_monk 8y agoIt says “DNA” and “genetic material”, while also talking about finding living tissue and growing from it. I think the presentation is either misleading or confusing.
- wil421 8y agoIt’s a tissue culture. The result is an exact clone of the tissue doner. They didn’t get Dino DNA from amber but a clones a clone. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_tissue_culture https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_tissue_culture
- stochastic_monk 8y agoThank you, though I do understand. I’m saying that the article’s repeated mention of DNA is misleading, since it’s not being directly used by humans.
- drieddust 8y agoThat stump is sad reminder of greedy destruction we have bought to the world. I hope we can reverse it.
- sschueller 8y agoSadly we are still at it at a rapid pace. Maybe not so much anymore with trees but we are decapping mountains for minerals and pumping toxic chemicals in the ground to extract oil/gas.
- raptorraver 8y agoLet's not forget the horrendous speed we are destroying Amazon's rainforsests. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_of_the_Amazon_rainforest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_of_the_Amazon_ra...
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago"we" are not doing that; if "we" did "we" could take responsibility and stop it. There's some very specific companies and governments we can point a finger at.
- Tepix 8y agoConsumers around the world are buying the wood and the palm oil that gets planted after the trees have been chopped down.
- opan 8y agoI've never been a fan of this sort of argument. If everyone decided to stop buying something, that still doesn't stop a regular batch of that thing being produced, or in this case it doesn't stop them from cutting down the trees with the assumption that they will sell. If they don't sell well, they can't un-cut the trees.
- thucydidesofusa 8y agoI wonder if the clones could be for sale? It'd make a great bonsai.
- mark-r 8y agoUnfortunately these clones are establishing monocultures that are unlikely to do well long term. You need some genetic diversity.
- aaron695 8y agoSeems to be some sort of religious lets clone old ancient trees, going on here in the article, rather than lets pick trees that are scientifically the best for the next generation. The actual organization seems less religious than the article makes out and is cloning from a variety of sources.
- jmspring 8y agoSadly a lot of our forest eco-systems, especially in CA are at risk. Drought, poor forest management, bark beattle, over forestation, etc. Were forestry practices 100+ years ago good, not really - a lot of these ancient trees spawned eco-systems in themselves (evident in the Headwaters groves). That said, modern "do nothing" approaches pushed by environmental "concerns" are the exact opposite of the over-logging. Sadly, no middle-ground was approched with towns that relied on sustainable logging and good forest management practices. I don't ever recall a conversation about such happening. The recent debacles with PG&E? They are highly to blame for funneling "maintenance money" to their parent corporation for profits. However, in California, the National Forests vary greatly in their management practices as well. Plumas is pretty good at cleaning duff, downed trees, etc. Some of the others, not at all. During the Detweiller and related fires, PG&E was offering to work with the NPS around Yosemite to clear dead trees due to bark beattle. NPS said no. Why? It would ruin the ambiance (of dead brown trees). Drought, the beattle, etc. cause a number of issues for our forests in CA. However, management practices and hinderances due to some over reactions in environmental policy are jsut as bad.
- simplecomplex 8y agoAre any of those issues comparable to cutting all the trees down? Fires and beatles and dead wood are natural.
- zdf 8y agoFor the beetles in particular, they're only natural inasmuch as logging is natural. The beetles are able to survive because of human activity. Logging is just as natural, because it's done by humans, which are a natural species. We have to have some common sense boundaries on what is or is not natural for the term to have any usefulness in environmental discussions. In this case, the beetles are unnatural and invasive. Moreover, they're harmful in that they kill trees more quickly than the forest is equipped to handle.
- sgc 8y agoJapanese beetles are not native to the area and wipe out hundreds of thousands of acres at a time. Then it is a tinder box.
- njarboe 8y agoThis species of tree grows all over Northern Coastal California and there huge preserved areas of old growth trees throughout the region. It is great to keep replanting coastal redwoods to help replace all the ones that were cut down, but this cloning of gigantic old stumps sure feels like a pure propaganda move with no ecological benefit over using seeds. It is likely a bad idea to plant a lot of clones of single individuals, especially in concentrated areas next to each other.
- tsmith5432 8y agoFor some plants, there is a great variance in behavior between the parent plant and a plant grown from seed. Apples for instance, if grown from seed, likely will not carry all the properties of the parent plant. E.g., the fruit will not taste the same. Apple trees mostly have desirable fruit bearing tissue grafted onto plain understock. Also, some plants show different growth characteristics in mature tissue than in young tissue, but I don't know if that applies to the redwoods.
- jdmichal 8y agoThe plants you are thinking of are F1 hybrids. Obviously wild trees are by definition not F1 hybrids.
- kseistrup 8y agoExcept the trees that were used for cloning have a proven track record of being able to survive for hundreds of years (“some of which were 3,000 years old”).
- quixoticelixer- 8y agoIt would be highly unlikely that the seeds aren't also capable doing that.
- kseistrup 8y agoRight. But the clones were made from stumps, not from seed-bearing trees. And even if you used seeds from “old trees”, there would be no guarantee that the entire genome in the seed originated from “old trees”, or that the relevant genes responsible for “getting old” are expressed to the same extend as in the old tree stumps. I'm all for genetic diversity, but I think the researchers have a point when they use living cells from provably very, very old trees to establish new trees. Even if you took seeds that were known to have a genome originating from one or two “old trees” there would be significant genetic variation in the seeds, and it would take centuries before we know if a plant from a given seed has what it takes to become as old as its parent(s).
- matco11 8y ago“Cloning” here seems the wrong (click-batey) choice of words. They have horticulturally propagated redwood trees - that’s a relatively simple technique, commonly used by your average gardener. What’s special here is that they found which conditions maximize the yield of the redwoods propagation and they are planting colonies of the new trees in areas around the world that offer particularly good/promising climatic conditions. As these are very large trees, establishing large colonies can have a relatively meaningful impact in carbon capture.
- tsmith5432 8y agoA plant grown from a cutting is indeed a clone. It is the actual tissue of the original plant, just grown out. Same DNA as the original plant. Only, you use clever techniques to stimulate undifferentiated cells to produce roots. One of the linked articles, however, shows plants growing in little plastic jars. This looks like "tissue culture", which takes a plant cell sample and causes it to grow in a culture medium. But, still, it's cells from the parent plant grown out.
- candiodari 8y agoExactly. There are many ways plants and even animals reproduce that result in genetically identical offspring and this is generally referred to as cloning. For bacteria this is usually the normal way of reproducing but it happens in animals like famously sharks. But it happens in chickens, turkeys, reptiles, snakes. There's also a cool intermediate form, like with plants. Trees and flowers are of course famously both male and female, but usually require sex to reproduce (sex in the sense of contact between male and female reproductive organs, through insects mostly) There's even controversy because the list of animals that haven't been caught cloning themselves has been growing shorter and shorter over the past 30 years. But of course as soon as anyone points out "given this long list of animals where females can clone themselves, isn't it pretty likely humans do this as well, on occasion", everyone loses their minds (and no, the Jesus argument makes no sense: of course a natural clone is always female).
- ggm 8y agoThis technique, taking cuttings is surely a form of cloning?
- Dowwie 8y agoFun fact: Metasequoia are in New York City and New Jersey. Around the five boroughs are 100 year old, towering Dawn redwood! I have even seen full grown trees in Cresskill, NJ. Recently, a two year art exhibit in Brooklyn [1] concluded that used more than four thousand live, baby Metasequoia. All of the trees have since found new homes, but I am unsure where the recipients are. I now have a baby Metasequoia growing in the corner of my front lawn. The tree was a gift from the owner of the tree farm that supplied the Dawn redwood for the exhibit. [1] https://www.publicartfund.org/view/exhibitions/6126_spencer_finch_lost_man_creek https://www.publicartfund.org/view/exhibitions/6126_spencer_...
- rsync 8y agoThank you. Another surprising redwood tree is in the "Rieterpark" in central Zurich.
- jbrazile 8y agoAnd further down the lake of Zurich was this one planted in 1860: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2305482,8.6713386,3a,60y,287.47h,94.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8tMzvEYgewAqqS4Q2ghjsg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2305482,8.6713386,3a,60y,287...
- amenod 8y agoNitpick: > ...some of the world’s oldest and largest coast redwoods, some of which were 3,000 years old... > a nonprofit working to reestablish ancient redwood forests to help combat climate change. Coastal redwoods, which can grow an average 10 feet per year, sequester 250 tons of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere over their lives, compared to 1 ton for an average tree. Yes, but over <3000 years, so the comparison doesn't tell anything without knowing the lifespan of an "average tree". Not that it matters though, the achievement is great, and I hope this helps us return many species that went extinct only because they had the misfortune to exist at the same time as humans.
- JulianMorrison 8y agoJust seeing that stump makes me terribly sad for what has already been lost.
- hypertexthero 8y agoIt is a heavy, frightening photograph, and an honest portrayal of homo sapiens.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y agoMany forested parts of the US were stripped bare 100 years ago. These will become old growth in time.
- hiccuphippo 8y agoWon't they have problems with the low genetic diversity the same way Cavendish bananas seem to be in problem now?
- bduerst 8y agoThe redwood trees are still able to sexually reproduce with other variants, unlike the banana trees that are cultivated for crops.
- mark-r 8y agoThe issue is that they appear to be establishing groves of genetically identical trees, so sexual reproduction is irrelevant. Unless you're planting next to an established forest.
- bduerst 8y agoThe difference still lay in that the groves are still genetically different from each other, unlike bananas which are the same genetic organism planted on thousands of acres.
- mark-r 8y agoThat does no good unless the groves are close enough to allow interbreeding. From what I understand they're trying to establish these groves all around the world, and most won't have any neighbors.
- honestoHeminway 8y agoImagine you could combine the redwood dna, with bambus- a plant perfectly adapted to humans by beeing fast growing and resilient, turning into a plant perfectly adapted to what earth once was before us.
- mabbo 8y agoWhere and when can I buy one? Look, this is one of those cool cases where the free market may be able to help the environment instead of harming it. Sell these seedlings for $200/each. Some number of people (myself included) will happily buy them, then plant them wherever and the world has more of these amazing trees. The funds can be used to further the cause of helping forests and old trees.
- androidgirl 8y agoYou can currently purchase redwood seeds online to grow yourself! Plant them in peat moss in large groups to be sure they survive, as most seeds are not viable. Keep them warm until they germinate, too! However, redwoods are really, really destructive anywhere that isn't a wide open field. Their roots will tear up concrete and pipes. Also, they shed branches like crazy during rapid growth, which deals damage to surrounding structures or flora. Just something to keep in mind! If you have space and they won't be a danger to current inhabitants of the area, go for it.
- mlthompson 8y agoI couldn't agree with this more. Living in the midwest though I'm sure these tree's won't be able to live here. That being said I'd love to see a list of trees that work well as carbon sinks for other geographic area's.
- amanaplanacanal 8y ago
- justaguyhere 8y ago3000 years! Isn't mother nature amazing?!
- RosanaAnaDana 8y agoTotal aside, but as an undergraduate, I was part of the school tissue culture club. We brought 'albino' redwoods into culture and made a pretty hefty profit selling carnivorous plants on Fridays. We did a tour of a local redwood companies tissue culture lab, and almost all the employees were female, and a fair few had developed severe arthritis in their work. Was very depressing to see.
- jelliclesfarm 8y agoWould it be possible to automate tissue culture with precision robotics?
- RosanaAnaDana 8y agoTotally. Especially considering that plants are a kind of biological machine which works to turn light into plant stuff. This means that how the plant interacts with light can tell you a-lot about the health and well being of the light. A pinch of machine vision, and you are pretty much there.
- jelliclesfarm 8y agoThanks. Is this already being done? Or is it a tech waiting to be delivered?
- RosanaAnaDana 8y agoI'm almost 100% convinced its already being done by private industry; you can do the vast majority of it w.out any ML/AI component. Biggest issue however is that it only makes sense on high margin plants. See, as it turns out, plants already have this novel/ ingenious way of packaging the data required to make complete copies of into very discrete packages. They're called seeds, and in general, for the vast majority of cases, seeds which are often actually cheaper than dirt are just fine. Only when you have a plant that has certain characteristics (GMO in a non-hereditary trait etc..) does this make real sense.
- throwaway5752 8y agoThis is a great thing that will pay increasingly high dividends for decades and centuries: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12914 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12914
- rcostin2k2 8y agoHow is the CO2 capture for redwood (250t over 3000yrs per tree) compared with other trees ? Would be interesting to know if the lifecycle of those short lived trees (compared with redwood) have better efficiency regarding the carbon capture ...