5 ms·

Yea, if you need 25,000 employees in a sector your choices are pretty limited to the areas where there are tons of those employees already living it seems to me

by codyb 8y ago

Yea, if you need 25,000 employees in a sector your choices are pretty limited to the areas where there are tons of those employees already living it seems to me unless you want a difficult hiring process. I know I wouldn't really want to live in an area where the jobs in my field were Amazon and very little else. I'm very disappointed that NYC gave one of the largest companies in the world by valuation 3bn in tax breaks while the subway crumbles, although I don't think it was particularly a bad deal, but it's hard to accurately calculate when that will pay off by. I'm just a bit disappointed that in a time of unprecedented wealth inequality and company concentration our nation's setup to reward the wealthiest individuals and largest corporations. NYC should have said "here's what we decided a good offer would have been, we're going to invest it in startups, and infrastructure. Come here if you want to be around the great minds that will be attracted to a diverse and rich in ideas environment." I also wouldn't be surprised if NYC does reward small companies and this is just another thing too.

elamje 8y ago
But NYC cares about tax revenue just like you or I care about income. In one move, HQ2 will bring NYC/NY State a very attractive amount of tax revenue. It is the most logical thing for city officials, who constantly want more funding, to do what exactly what will bring more funding the quickest.
- drugme 8y ago
  In one move, HQ2 will bring NYC/NY State a very attractive amount of tax revenue. How much, approximately? Or do you just think it will be... "a lot"?
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    Ballpark state income tax at 6.5% of $250K * 25K = $406M/yr, with city tax on top. Ballpark property tax at $12K * 25K = $300M/yr Ballpark state sales tax at 4% of $50K in spending * 25K = $50M/yr Naturally, some of the property tax is displacing existing property tax payers and some of the income tax will be lost to other employers moving out of NYC area, but it seem quite reasonable to be OoM $500M per year at scale.
    - drugme 8y ago
      6.5% of $250K x 25K = $406M/yr, It only takes a minute or two verify that $250K is a completely unrealistic estimate for the average salary of a likely HQ2 employee. In fact the state's own estimate is around $150k. The property tax estimate is similarly skewed -- on top of the fact that you're ignoring the additional cost of services to support all these people. I'm not saying there's benefit-to-cost ratio argument to be made in favor of HQ2 (if everything were to boil down to those terms) -- just that you seem to be, well... pulling numbers out of the air.
      - elamje 8y ago
        What services will cost more for the city? Public transportation will have a ridership subscription boost, property values will go up for local owners, service businesses will have ~25k more potential customers...
        drugme 8y ago
        What services will cost more for the city? The usual costs per new resident (that property taxes are normally earmarked for) perhaps?
        elamje 8y ago
        I understand your concern about pulling the numbers out of the air, but I think the commenter above made a stronger case for those numbers than you have with the "cost" numbers. Just a thought to consider
        jowiar 8y ago
        For some cities 25k is a big deal. For NYC it’s rounding error. NYC is big enough to have a healthy relationship with Amazon, and part of that is knowing is that you’re the seller, not the buyer.
        drugme 8y ago
        For some cities 25k is a big deal. For NYC it’s rounding error. The point is that the gain in revenue from income and property is being presented as basically just "free" money. It's not.
yyyymmddhhmmss 8y ago
>if you need 25,000 employees in a sector... Let’s be clear. They don’t need this, and no society owes it to them. We live in the age of corporate rule and talking about corporation’s “needs” like this, in such a way that effectively justifies a priority of their needs over the needs of actually living people is outrageous.
Spooky23 8y ago
NYS likes personal income tax. 25,000 high-paid employees who aren't in financial services yield revenue and diversification. NYC likes property tax. Raising property values in Queens makes the city significant amount of revenue. Dropping it in Queens maximizes benefit to NY, as you're less likely to lose households to New Jersey or Connecticut.
rayiner 8y ago
> I'm very disappointed that NYC gave one of the largest companies in the world by valuation 3bn in tax breaks while the subway crumbles, although I don't think it was particularly a bad deal, but it's hard to accurately calculate when that will pay off by. Giving the New York subway more funding is as bad as lighting it on fire: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-...

by codyb 8y ago

elamje 8y ago

But NYC cares about tax revenue just like you or I care about income. In one move, HQ2 will bring NYC/NY State a very attractive amount of tax revenue. It is the most logical thing for city officials, who constantly want more funding, to do what exactly what will bring more funding the quickest.

drugme 8y ago
In one move, HQ2 will bring NYC/NY State a very attractive amount of tax revenue. How much, approximately? Or do you just think it will be... "a lot"?
- sokoloff 8y ago
  Ballpark state income tax at 6.5% of $250K * 25K = $406M/yr, with city tax on top. Ballpark property tax at $12K * 25K = $300M/yr Ballpark state sales tax at 4% of $50K in spending * 25K = $50M/yr Naturally, some of the property tax is displacing existing property tax payers and some of the income tax will be lost to other employers moving out of NYC area, but it seem quite reasonable to be OoM $500M per year at scale.
  - drugme 8y ago
    6.5% of $250K x 25K = $406M/yr, It only takes a minute or two verify that $250K is a completely unrealistic estimate for the average salary of a likely HQ2 employee. In fact the state's own estimate is around $150k. The property tax estimate is similarly skewed -- on top of the fact that you're ignoring the additional cost of services to support all these people. I'm not saying there's benefit-to-cost ratio argument to be made in favor of HQ2 (if everything were to boil down to those terms) -- just that you seem to be, well... pulling numbers out of the air.
    - elamje 8y ago
      What services will cost more for the city? Public transportation will have a ridership subscription boost, property values will go up for local owners, service businesses will have ~25k more potential customers...
      - drugme 8y ago
        What services will cost more for the city? The usual costs per new resident (that property taxes are normally earmarked for) perhaps?
      - elamje 8y ago
        I understand your concern about pulling the numbers out of the air, but I think the commenter above made a stronger case for those numbers than you have with the "cost" numbers. Just a thought to consider
      - jowiar 8y ago
        For some cities 25k is a big deal. For NYC it’s rounding error. NYC is big enough to have a healthy relationship with Amazon, and part of that is knowing is that you’re the seller, not the buyer.
        drugme 8y ago
        For some cities 25k is a big deal. For NYC it’s rounding error. The point is that the gain in revenue from income and property is being presented as basically just "free" money. It's not.

yyyymmddhhmmss 8y ago

>if you need 25,000 employees in a sector... Let’s be clear. They don’t need this, and no society owes it to them. We live in the age of corporate rule and talking about corporation’s “needs” like this, in such a way that effectively justifies a priority of their needs over the needs of actually living people is outrageous.

Spooky23 8y ago

NYS likes personal income tax. 25,000 high-paid employees who aren't in financial services yield revenue and diversification. NYC likes property tax. Raising property values in Queens makes the city significant amount of revenue. Dropping it in Queens maximizes benefit to NY, as you're less likely to lose households to New Jersey or Connecticut.

rayiner 8y ago

> I'm very disappointed that NYC gave one of the largest companies in the world by valuation 3bn in tax breaks while the subway crumbles, although I don't think it was particularly a bad deal, but it's hard to accurately calculate when that will pay off by. Giving the New York subway more funding is as bad as lighting it on fire: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-...