4 ms·

Tipping serves a purpose. It's a clear, precise and immediate communication channel about customer satisfaction. If you get bad service, just don't leave a tip

Tipping serves a purpose. It's a clear, precise and immediate communication channel about customer satisfaction. If you get bad service, just don't leave a tip - it doesn't have any social friction of calling the manager or anything like that. You, as a customer, feel that you're in control. Why would you want to get rid of that?

michaelt 8y ago
If I give my delivery driver $5 and his employer drops his pay by $5 as if I'd tipped $0, the communication channel is muted. Maybe I'm deceived into thinking I'm rewarding good performance, but the truth is I'm a chump making a voluntary donation to some billionaire CEO's pay packet. Why would anyone volunteer to be taken for a fool like that?
- golergka 8y ago
  I completely agree with you, but your point is not about tipping, it's about this particular scam. Why are you replying as if I'm defending it? There's no argument to be had about this.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    Have you considered what article you're posting on? Also tipping culture enables companies to do things like this.
    - darkpuma 8y ago
      Credit card culture enables this. When you tip with cash, you cut out the corporate middle man.
      - Dylan16807 8y ago
        The same thing could happen with cash if the system was set up a little bit differently.
        darkpuma 8y ago
        No not really. Hand the cash to the person you're tipping, nobody else.
fphhotchips 8y ago
I agree that it's a great feedback system. However, I disagree that it should be a negative feedback loop. Tipping should be an optional extra that indicates I was extremely happy with my service, not some mechanism for me to extract my revenge on a server who was probably dealing with issues that weren't their fault.
- golergka 8y ago
  But customers and businesses don't really care about communicating these rare cases. What we care is maintaining the minimum sane level of service, and we assume that in 95% of cases it will be. Which makes negative feedback loop much more fitting.
thecatspaw 8y ago
because it makes reading prices more difficult. Oh that steak costs 20bucks, add a tip of about 20% so thats about 24 bucks. Which is a lot more mental work than just reading 24bucks. Its also a psychiological trick, since the 20bucks is obviously cheaper than the 24, just hoping you'd forget to calculate the tip when looking at the menu. If I need to pay more than the menu indicates, or I am an asshole... yeah, I wanna get rid of that. Its not neccessary to forbid tipping, but it absolutely should not be part of their regular pay. It should be extra. A tip. Not "oh yeah, you did your job as expected"
- golergka 8y ago
  > Oh that steak costs 20bucks, add a tip of about 20% so thats about 24 bucks. If I find myself in a situation where the difference between $20 and $24 for a steak matters for me, I don't go to a restoraunt altogether - or choose a place with a different price range. I think it's more or less assumed that if you've gone to a place (like a bar or a restoraunt) and have glanced through the menu to get it overall price range, then you're comfortable with a ballpark price for a meal, right? > but it absolutely should not be part of their regular pay. It should be extra. A tip. That would make it much worse as a signal. (Discussed in another sub-thread).
  - nicoburns 8y ago
    > I think it's more or less assumed that if you've gone to a place (like a bar or a restoraunt) and have glanced through the menu to get it overall price range, then you're comfortable with a ballpark price for a meal, right? Now that is a priveleged statement. This certainly isn't the case for people who make less money, like say waiting staff for example.
    - improbable22 8y ago
      No I wouldn't got that far, for most of us there are places we can and cannot afford. But this is how you have to regard US menu prices: you add 1/3 or so and have a ballpark figure for what it's going to cost you. Whereas ordering the "menu €15.50" is something you can safely do after checking that you have 15.50 in your pocket.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
j16sdiz 8y ago
You can just do what Uber do -- always ask the passenger for rating after the trip.
topmonk 8y ago
It's far from clear, though. How much to tip? And to what businesses? If someone leaves out a tip jar at a taco bell, does that mean you have to tip them, and should the amount be different? By how much? Also, if you don't leave a tip, it doesn't explain what part of the service was unsatisfactory. Was the food bad? The dishes dirty? Did the waitress not refill your coffee quick enough? Or maybe the customer was bigoted against the servers, or just forgot.
- leetcrew 8y ago
  it's actually not that complicated, at least for restaurants. you're obligated to tip if and only if you're at a sit-down place with table service. that said, I always tip at my favorite takeout places, but not necessarily 20%.
  - thecatspaw 8y ago
    But why? Why not just increase the prices 20% and increase the servers wage?
    - leetcrew 8y ago
      because it's been this way for a while and people don't all agree that it should change. for example, I worked at a cheap restaurant in college where, after tips, I would make 25-50% more than minimum wage in a typical pay period. I don't know for sure, but I strongly suspect that if tipping were not the norm and the management were required to pay minimum wage, they would have just paid the minimum or fifty cents more, making me significantly less money. many other servers I have talked to agree. many others think that they would make about the same money the other way. some agree that they would make less money but don't like tipping anyway (weird imo). if you can't even get all the servers on the same page, it's pretty hard to change an entrenched cultural norm.
EliRivers 8y ago
I understand the evidence indicates that in restaurants, it most strongly rewards being an attractive female who touches people.

michaelt 8y ago

If I give my delivery driver $5 and his employer drops his pay by $5 as if I'd tipped $0, the communication channel is muted. Maybe I'm deceived into thinking I'm rewarding good performance, but the truth is I'm a chump making a voluntary donation to some billionaire CEO's pay packet. Why would anyone volunteer to be taken for a fool like that?

golergka 8y ago
I completely agree with you, but your point is not about tipping, it's about this particular scam. Why are you replying as if I'm defending it? There's no argument to be had about this.
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  Have you considered what article you're posting on? Also tipping culture enables companies to do things like this.
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    Credit card culture enables this. When you tip with cash, you cut out the corporate middle man.
    - Dylan16807 8y ago
      The same thing could happen with cash if the system was set up a little bit differently.
      - darkpuma 8y ago
        No not really. Hand the cash to the person you're tipping, nobody else.

fphhotchips 8y ago

I agree that it's a great feedback system. However, I disagree that it should be a negative feedback loop. Tipping should be an optional extra that indicates I was extremely happy with my service, not some mechanism for me to extract my revenge on a server who was probably dealing with issues that weren't their fault.

golergka 8y ago
But customers and businesses don't really care about communicating these rare cases. What we care is maintaining the minimum sane level of service, and we assume that in 95% of cases it will be. Which makes negative feedback loop much more fitting.

thecatspaw 8y ago

because it makes reading prices more difficult. Oh that steak costs 20bucks, add a tip of about 20% so thats about 24 bucks. Which is a lot more mental work than just reading 24bucks. Its also a psychiological trick, since the 20bucks is obviously cheaper than the 24, just hoping you'd forget to calculate the tip when looking at the menu. If I need to pay more than the menu indicates, or I am an asshole... yeah, I wanna get rid of that. Its not neccessary to forbid tipping, but it absolutely should not be part of their regular pay. It should be extra. A tip. Not "oh yeah, you did your job as expected"

golergka 8y ago
> Oh that steak costs 20bucks, add a tip of about 20% so thats about 24 bucks. If I find myself in a situation where the difference between $20 and $24 for a steak matters for me, I don't go to a restoraunt altogether - or choose a place with a different price range. I think it's more or less assumed that if you've gone to a place (like a bar or a restoraunt) and have glanced through the menu to get it overall price range, then you're comfortable with a ballpark price for a meal, right? > but it absolutely should not be part of their regular pay. It should be extra. A tip. That would make it much worse as a signal. (Discussed in another sub-thread).
- nicoburns 8y ago
  > I think it's more or less assumed that if you've gone to a place (like a bar or a restoraunt) and have glanced through the menu to get it overall price range, then you're comfortable with a ballpark price for a meal, right? Now that is a priveleged statement. This certainly isn't the case for people who make less money, like say waiting staff for example.
  - improbable22 8y ago
    No I wouldn't got that far, for most of us there are places we can and cannot afford. But this is how you have to regard US menu prices: you add 1/3 or so and have a ballpark figure for what it's going to cost you. Whereas ordering the "menu €15.50" is something you can safely do after checking that you have 15.50 in your pocket.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

j16sdiz 8y ago

You can just do what Uber do -- always ask the passenger for rating after the trip.

topmonk 8y ago

It's far from clear, though. How much to tip? And to what businesses? If someone leaves out a tip jar at a taco bell, does that mean you have to tip them, and should the amount be different? By how much? Also, if you don't leave a tip, it doesn't explain what part of the service was unsatisfactory. Was the food bad? The dishes dirty? Did the waitress not refill your coffee quick enough? Or maybe the customer was bigoted against the servers, or just forgot.

leetcrew 8y ago
it's actually not that complicated, at least for restaurants. you're obligated to tip if and only if you're at a sit-down place with table service. that said, I always tip at my favorite takeout places, but not necessarily 20%.
- thecatspaw 8y ago
  But why? Why not just increase the prices 20% and increase the servers wage?
  - leetcrew 8y ago
    because it's been this way for a while and people don't all agree that it should change. for example, I worked at a cheap restaurant in college where, after tips, I would make 25-50% more than minimum wage in a typical pay period. I don't know for sure, but I strongly suspect that if tipping were not the norm and the management were required to pay minimum wage, they would have just paid the minimum or fifty cents more, making me significantly less money. many other servers I have talked to agree. many others think that they would make about the same money the other way. some agree that they would make less money but don't like tipping anyway (weird imo). if you can't even get all the servers on the same page, it's pretty hard to change an entrenched cultural norm.

EliRivers 8y ago

I understand the evidence indicates that in restaurants, it most strongly rewards being an attractive female who touches people.