6 ms·

That's not how it works. They get a base pay without considering tips. If they get tips they get more. They don't get a base pay that gets eaten away by tips un

That's not how it works. They get a base pay without considering tips. If they get tips they get more. They don't get a base pay that gets eaten away by tips until the tips exceed their pay, otherwise why would anyone bother to work harder for the tips if they just get the same amount?

benmanns 8y ago
This is exactly how it works. You get minimum wage. If you get tips, your wage can be reduced to the tipped employee minimum wage of some $2 per hour. Usually $2 plus your tips put you over minimum wage, but not always.
beatpanda 8y ago
It depends on the state. Lots and lots of states have tipped wage laws that allow an employer to count tips toward base pay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage
bryanlarsen 8y ago
That's exactly how it works. For example in West Virginia, you get paid either 8.50 or 2.62 plus your tips, whichever is more. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage
- colechristensen 8y ago
  A few successful waitresses I've known earned 2-4x minimum wage with tips and fought hard against proposed local laws that would cancel that "tips count towards minimum wage" concept on the grounds that restaurants couldn't afford it.
  - StudentStuff 8y ago
    Yet restaurants do quite well in the seven states that ban this shady practice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States#State_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_Stat...
vkou 8y ago
Only in states that explicitly permit tip theft (by having a ludicriously low minimum wage for tipped staff). In other states/countries, this practice is highly illegal.
subculture 8y ago
These stories with Amazon, Postmates, etc are getting traction because they're tech companies. At least now more people are realizing that this practice is in addition to existing abuses against service workers.
- d4rti 8y ago
  They are also a better target for action than a single restaurant or small service business because of the vastly larger number of workers.
schrodinger 8y ago
You’re wrong! That’s how it works! Service workers get a Lowe minimum wage with the expectation it’ll be made up for with tips. If it doesn’t, the employer must top them up.
thaumasiotes 8y ago
> They don't get a base pay that gets eaten away by tips until the tips exceed their pay, otherwise why would anyone bother to work harder for the tips if they just get the same amount? Yes, they do get a base pay that gets eaten away by tips until the tips exceed the base pay. It's structured like so: 1. The state minimum wage is, say, $8. 2. The state minimum wage for tipped workers is much lower, say $2. 3. But the minimum wage for tipped workers doesn't exempt you, the employer, from paying the overall minimum wage. If someone is so terrible at their job that they only make $1 / hour in tips, then you have to pay them $7 / hour so they end up making minimum wage. But you can describe the exact same pay schedule differently: 1. The minimum wage is $8 / hour, and that's what waiters make. 2. But for tipped workers, up to $6 / hour of tips can be garnished by the employer. As you can see, your first $6 / hour of tips do nothing but reduce your base pay. Whatever you get tipped above that amount is yours to keep.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  As you can see, your first $6 / hour of tips do nothing but reduce your base pay. Whatever you get tipped above that amount is yours to keep. You had it right the first time, but the first $6/hour of tips do not reduce your base pay, and are not considered garnishments since you are guaranteed a minimum no matter what. (And "garnish" does have a legal meaning in this context so that's definitely the wrong word to use here.) It should be contextualized another way: the first $6/hour of tips offset the make-good wages the restaurant would have to pay if you hadn't earned those tips.
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    What do you mean "the first time"? The amount of money you get is the same. The two scenarios are worded differently without being different. Except for the joy of financial engineering, there is no difference between "you make $8 / hour, and the first $6 / hour of your tips go to me instead of you" and "you make $8 / hour, and whatever tips you get are yours to keep, but the first $6 / hour of your tips lower your base wage by an equal amount". But you must conceive of it as either garnishing tips or eating into the base pay, because if you work one hour and get tipped $20, you only earn $22. If your tips weren't being garnished and also didn't reduce your base pay, you'd earn $28.

benmanns 8y ago

This is exactly how it works. You get minimum wage. If you get tips, your wage can be reduced to the tipped employee minimum wage of some $2 per hour. Usually $2 plus your tips put you over minimum wage, but not always.

beatpanda 8y ago

It depends on the state. Lots and lots of states have tipped wage laws that allow an employer to count tips toward base pay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage

bryanlarsen 8y ago

That's exactly how it works. For example in West Virginia, you get paid either 8.50 or 2.62 plus your tips, whichever is more. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage

colechristensen 8y ago
A few successful waitresses I've known earned 2-4x minimum wage with tips and fought hard against proposed local laws that would cancel that "tips count towards minimum wage" concept on the grounds that restaurants couldn't afford it.
- StudentStuff 8y ago
  Yet restaurants do quite well in the seven states that ban this shady practice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States#State_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_Stat...

vkou 8y ago

Only in states that explicitly permit tip theft (by having a ludicriously low minimum wage for tipped staff). In other states/countries, this practice is highly illegal.

subculture 8y ago

These stories with Amazon, Postmates, etc are getting traction because they're tech companies. At least now more people are realizing that this practice is in addition to existing abuses against service workers.

d4rti 8y ago
They are also a better target for action than a single restaurant or small service business because of the vastly larger number of workers.

schrodinger 8y ago

You’re wrong! That’s how it works! Service workers get a Lowe minimum wage with the expectation it’ll be made up for with tips. If it doesn’t, the employer must top them up.

thaumasiotes 8y ago

> They don't get a base pay that gets eaten away by tips until the tips exceed their pay, otherwise why would anyone bother to work harder for the tips if they just get the same amount? Yes, they do get a base pay that gets eaten away by tips until the tips exceed the base pay. It's structured like so: 1. The state minimum wage is, say, $8. 2. The state minimum wage for tipped workers is much lower, say $2. 3. But the minimum wage for tipped workers doesn't exempt you, the employer, from paying the overall minimum wage. If someone is so terrible at their job that they only make $1 / hour in tips, then you have to pay them $7 / hour so they end up making minimum wage. But you can describe the exact same pay schedule differently: 1. The minimum wage is $8 / hour, and that's what waiters make. 2. But for tipped workers, up to $6 / hour of tips can be garnished by the employer. As you can see, your first $6 / hour of tips do nothing but reduce your base pay. Whatever you get tipped above that amount is yours to keep.

gamblor956 8y ago
As you can see, your first $6 / hour of tips do nothing but reduce your base pay. Whatever you get tipped above that amount is yours to keep. You had it right the first time, but the first $6/hour of tips do not reduce your base pay, and are not considered garnishments since you are guaranteed a minimum no matter what. (And "garnish" does have a legal meaning in this context so that's definitely the wrong word to use here.) It should be contextualized another way: the first $6/hour of tips offset the make-good wages the restaurant would have to pay if you hadn't earned those tips.
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  What do you mean "the first time"? The amount of money you get is the same. The two scenarios are worded differently without being different. Except for the joy of financial engineering, there is no difference between "you make $8 / hour, and the first $6 / hour of your tips go to me instead of you" and "you make $8 / hour, and whatever tips you get are yours to keep, but the first $6 / hour of your tips lower your base wage by an equal amount". But you must conceive of it as either garnishing tips or eating into the base pay, because if you work one hour and get tipped $20, you only earn $22. If your tips weren't being garnished and also didn't reduce your base pay, you'd earn $28.