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You make a good point, but I think it's a corporate problem, not a google problem. Expecting loyalty from businesses is pointless. Look at NFL franchises. They'

You make a good point, but I think it's a corporate problem, not a google problem. Expecting loyalty from businesses is pointless. Look at NFL franchises. They'll move from cleveland to baltimore or Oakland to Las Vegas or from LA to St.Louis and back to LA without a second thought. Look at the rust belt where companies just left for "greener pastures". Or pharma companies merging and moving their headquarters to europe to exploit tax loopholes. Businesses are in it for themselves despite all the ads and PR talking about how they care about the community.

maxxxxx 8y ago
I think Google is one step ahead of others in terms of unreliability. GE won't pull out of aircraft engines with 2 months notice.
simias 8y ago
I don't think it's really about loyalty, it's more about managing expectations. Some brands use reliability and long term support as selling points, so you expect that from them. They have an incentive to keep offering long term support in order to preserve their reputation. It might not be important if you're buying, say, a smartphone that you expect to keep for a couple of years but it's critical if you're buying something that you expect to work with two decades from now, like some industrial machines for instance. Google clearly is not in this category. They will drop basically anything with very short notice (two months here) if they don't feel like doing it anymore. That may be fine if you're buying a Google phone but that's definitely a problem for anything that can't just be replaced instantly and for (relatively) cheap. Can you imagine if people who manufacture components for industrial designs behaved like Google does? "We have these subway trains with busted brakes, but it turns out that they were manufactured by Google and they dropped the project two years ago. I guess we have to buy new trains then..."
- shaftway 8y ago
  > Can you imagine if people who manufacture components for industrial designs behaved like Google does? "We have these subway trains with busted brakes, but it turns out that they were manufactured by Google and they dropped the project two years ago. I guess we have to buy new trains then..." Like in the NYC Subway? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mta-why-has-the-nyc-subway-gone-off-the-rails-60-minutes/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mta-why-has-the-nyc-subway-gone... > The old-fashioned system requires intensive care. When parts break, which at their age happens often, this busy repair shop springs into action. Like doctors, mechanics examine the patients. Some sound like they're on their last breath. Many of the companies that made these components are long gone. So workers here have to manufacture their own replacement parts. You have to be aware of the potential for the obsolescence of any service you use. Sometimes they drop the project, sometimes they go out of business. The end result is the same. I don't get mad at PageNet for not supporting my pager any more.
  - nickv 8y ago
    The components referenced in that quote are literally from the 1940s. We're talking vacuum tubes. Comparing 80 year old parts to a project that is barely two years is not really fair.
- latj 8y ago
  >Can you imagine if people who manufacture components for industrial designs behaved like Google does? "We have these subway trains with busted brakes, but it turns out that they were manufactured by Google and they dropped the project two years ago. I guess we have to buy new trains then..." I can imagine it. It happens every day. In an industrial setting it is not uncommon to need a part but the stock version of it is not available. It could be that the manufacturer switched from making cooling tower components to fly swatters. Or, it could be that the system you're maintaining is a hundred years old. You might find a 3rd party replacement part from China. If not, you try to build it from generic components (everyone uses the same bearings, o-rings, springs, etc). If that fails you find a company who sells a similar product and give them your specifications. Finally, failing all other means, you pay a machine shop (or a foundry if you're making the cast iron part of the braking system) to build your part. Anything that has already been built can be built again. If you want security in terms of products you are buying, you get a warranty. There are laws that enforce warranties. So you get a warranty, and when its going to expire you get an extension, and when you cant renew anymore you plan to replace that product. The same is true of utility companies. If you are worried about fly by night fiber companies, you should require a lengthy advanced notice-- perhaps a year or two. And if Google blesses some other city instead of yours because you wanted the warranty, then you let it go.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    " If you are worried about fly by night fiber companies, you should require a lengthy advanced notice--" That's the thing. Google uses its big name and reputation to gain entry but they behave like a fly by night operation.
    - p2t2p 8y ago
      The only reputation that Google has left in my head right now is that the thing that you rely upon can be gone overnight. I'm not using it for anything remotely critical.
      - maxxxxx 8y ago
mikeash 8y ago
I have high confidence that Verizon will continue to offer fiber at my house for years to come. “Will Verizon decide to stop serving this place?” was not a question I had to ask when looking for a place to live. Expecting some stability isn’t about loyalty, it’s just good business. Google is going to start scaring people away from stuff they actually want to sell if they have a history of abandoning things.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  I was thinking about Google Project Fi but not anymore.
  - mikelward 8y ago
    Worst case, Google Fi is discontinued. Then you find another provider and port your number.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - JohnTHaller 8y ago
      Unless your Google Wallet is disabled, in which case your Google Fi account ends up in arrears and you lose your number. Google Fi can only be paid for with Google Wallet, nothing else. Google Wallet is a separate team from Google Fi.
      - meko 8y ago
        Is that some hidden layer thing? Because I've had fi for a little over three years and never once messed with google wallet.
- inferiorhuman 8y ago
  Moreover the legacy stuff is heavily regulated, in part, so that the telco can't suddenly decide to pack up and leave.
geephroh 8y ago
"Ask Me About Amazon" -- City of Seattle
nradov 8y ago
It's not a corporate problem in the general technology industry. Large enterprise vendors like Red Hat and Microsoft carefully manage their reputations by keeping their product lines stable and continuing to support certain products for many years even when in isolation it doesn't make economic sense.
basementcat 8y ago
Meh, people do this too. Individuals migrate from one location to another for economic opportunity. Some people even "merge" into aggregated family units to exploit tax loopholes. People are in it for themselves despite all the talk about how they care about the community.

maxxxxx 8y ago

I think Google is one step ahead of others in terms of unreliability. GE won't pull out of aircraft engines with 2 months notice.

simias 8y ago

I don't think it's really about loyalty, it's more about managing expectations. Some brands use reliability and long term support as selling points, so you expect that from them. They have an incentive to keep offering long term support in order to preserve their reputation. It might not be important if you're buying, say, a smartphone that you expect to keep for a couple of years but it's critical if you're buying something that you expect to work with two decades from now, like some industrial machines for instance. Google clearly is not in this category. They will drop basically anything with very short notice (two months here) if they don't feel like doing it anymore. That may be fine if you're buying a Google phone but that's definitely a problem for anything that can't just be replaced instantly and for (relatively) cheap. Can you imagine if people who manufacture components for industrial designs behaved like Google does? "We have these subway trains with busted brakes, but it turns out that they were manufactured by Google and they dropped the project two years ago. I guess we have to buy new trains then..."

shaftway 8y ago
> Can you imagine if people who manufacture components for industrial designs behaved like Google does? "We have these subway trains with busted brakes, but it turns out that they were manufactured by Google and they dropped the project two years ago. I guess we have to buy new trains then..." Like in the NYC Subway? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mta-why-has-the-nyc-subway-gone-off-the-rails-60-minutes/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mta-why-has-the-nyc-subway-gone... > The old-fashioned system requires intensive care. When parts break, which at their age happens often, this busy repair shop springs into action. Like doctors, mechanics examine the patients. Some sound like they're on their last breath. Many of the companies that made these components are long gone. So workers here have to manufacture their own replacement parts. You have to be aware of the potential for the obsolescence of any service you use. Sometimes they drop the project, sometimes they go out of business. The end result is the same. I don't get mad at PageNet for not supporting my pager any more.
- nickv 8y ago
  The components referenced in that quote are literally from the 1940s. We're talking vacuum tubes. Comparing 80 year old parts to a project that is barely two years is not really fair.
latj 8y ago
>Can you imagine if people who manufacture components for industrial designs behaved like Google does? "We have these subway trains with busted brakes, but it turns out that they were manufactured by Google and they dropped the project two years ago. I guess we have to buy new trains then..." I can imagine it. It happens every day. In an industrial setting it is not uncommon to need a part but the stock version of it is not available. It could be that the manufacturer switched from making cooling tower components to fly swatters. Or, it could be that the system you're maintaining is a hundred years old. You might find a 3rd party replacement part from China. If not, you try to build it from generic components (everyone uses the same bearings, o-rings, springs, etc). If that fails you find a company who sells a similar product and give them your specifications. Finally, failing all other means, you pay a machine shop (or a foundry if you're making the cast iron part of the braking system) to build your part. Anything that has already been built can be built again. If you want security in terms of products you are buying, you get a warranty. There are laws that enforce warranties. So you get a warranty, and when its going to expire you get an extension, and when you cant renew anymore you plan to replace that product. The same is true of utility companies. If you are worried about fly by night fiber companies, you should require a lengthy advanced notice-- perhaps a year or two. And if Google blesses some other city instead of yours because you wanted the warranty, then you let it go.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  " If you are worried about fly by night fiber companies, you should require a lengthy advanced notice--" That's the thing. Google uses its big name and reputation to gain entry but they behave like a fly by night operation.
  - p2t2p 8y ago
    The only reputation that Google has left in my head right now is that the thing that you rely upon can be gone overnight. I'm not using it for anything remotely critical.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago

mikeash 8y ago

I have high confidence that Verizon will continue to offer fiber at my house for years to come. “Will Verizon decide to stop serving this place?” was not a question I had to ask when looking for a place to live. Expecting some stability isn’t about loyalty, it’s just good business. Google is going to start scaring people away from stuff they actually want to sell if they have a history of abandoning things.

maxxxxx 8y ago
I was thinking about Google Project Fi but not anymore.
- mikelward 8y ago
  Worst case, Google Fi is discontinued. Then you find another provider and port your number.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - JohnTHaller 8y ago
    Unless your Google Wallet is disabled, in which case your Google Fi account ends up in arrears and you lose your number. Google Fi can only be paid for with Google Wallet, nothing else. Google Wallet is a separate team from Google Fi.
    - meko 8y ago
      Is that some hidden layer thing? Because I've had fi for a little over three years and never once messed with google wallet.
inferiorhuman 8y ago
Moreover the legacy stuff is heavily regulated, in part, so that the telco can't suddenly decide to pack up and leave.

geephroh 8y ago

"Ask Me About Amazon" -- City of Seattle

nradov 8y ago

It's not a corporate problem in the general technology industry. Large enterprise vendors like Red Hat and Microsoft carefully manage their reputations by keeping their product lines stable and continuing to support certain products for many years even when in isolation it doesn't make economic sense.

basementcat 8y ago

Meh, people do this too. Individuals migrate from one location to another for economic opportunity. Some people even "merge" into aggregated family units to exploit tax loopholes. People are in it for themselves despite all the talk about how they care about the community.