5 ms·

PG&E Contains Gas Leak That Caused San Francisco Explosion

56 points by Impossible 8y ago

Robotbeat 8y ago
It's insane how we just accept regular natural gas explosions as a thing, but we over-react at even the hint of non-lethal nuclear contamination.
- randomacct3847 8y ago
  Huh? I didn’t realize as a society we had “accepted natural gas explosions” as normal. The fact that this story even attracted national news tells me otherwise.
  - dmoy 8y ago
    I think GP means we aren't now all calling to ban natural gas.
    - snazz 8y ago
      Most of us in more northern locales wouldn’t be too happy if we had to get new furnaces and stoves, but we don’t care too much where our grid electricity comes from since we aren’t personally invested in it.
  - cc439 8y ago
    There are untold numbers of pipeline explosions that either stay confined to local reporting or are forgotten almost immediately after they happen. Here's a severe one that happened down the street from me several years ago that never made national news (Link 1). Then you have the explosions that sent suburban Massachusetts into a complete state of emergency, damaging 131 homes, injuring 21, and killing 1 person (Link 2). That event is severe enough IMO that it should have sparked a national debate on the state of our critical utilities as it paralyzed everyone living near one of America's major cities (these were the suburbs many people in Boston commute from or have family/friends in) for several days and led to massive heating crisis due to paranoia of another distaster just a few weeks ago (Link 3). Gas explosions are lethal, and apparently, surprisingly common despite being a weekly/monthly occurence as far back as I can remember. Link 1: https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/2014/01/11/enka-explosion-felt-for-miles/4425475/ https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/2014/01/11/enka-exp... (search for pictures, it was a massive fountain of flames for several hours) Link 2: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/12/regulator-ties-pipeline-work-to-deadly-massachusetts-gas-explosion.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/12/regulator-ties-pipeline-work... Link 3: https://www.wpri.com/news/local-news/east-bay/national-grid-working-to-restore-gas-service-in-newport-middletown/1714135023 https://www.wpri.com/news/local-news/east-bay/national-grid-...
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >It's insane how we just accept regular natural gas explosions as a thing If it were considered normal or commonplace major news outlets wouldn't be covering it. >but we over-react at even the hint of non-lethal nuclear contamination. I'll agree with that.
- jasonjayr 8y ago
  I'm not sure if anyone remembers or knows outside the USA Northeast, but https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/PLD18MR003-preliminary-report.aspx https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/PL... Gas company accidentally over pressurized the service line, and destroyed just about everyone's equipment in the area. IIRC they only recently got everyone back online, and it's cold up here in the Northeast.
- mikeash 8y ago
  If natural gas somehow never took off, and today you were trying to pitch the idea of running pipes full of poisonous, explosive gas to every house, you’d get run out of town.
  - asdfadsfgfdda 8y ago
    Natural gas isn't particularly poisonous, is buoyant in air (tends to dissipate if leaked), and is cheaper than electric heating. At commercial prices, 1 million BTU of heat from natural gas costs ~$8, the equivalent .3 MW-hr electricity costs ~$15.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      I think it’s well worth the risk. I just ran a gas line to my house a couple of months ago because it’s the clear winner for heating. But I’m quite confident that the only reason people tolerate the idea is because it’s old. If it were a new idea, arguments such as yours would never be enough to win people over.
    - sjg007 8y ago
      Double the price isn’t that much. Plus with solar and wind it’ll get cheaper. Gas is historical pre electricity...
- dboreham 8y ago
  Yep. A friend was killed in one a number of years ago. I doubt that event was reported outside the local area. Took out 1/2 a city block too. They’re still rebuilding in the gap sites created, 10 years later.
- userbinator 8y ago
  It's one explosion, a fire, and after it's out you can start rebuilding pretty much immediately. With nuclear contamination, it stays around for a very long time.
wahern 8y ago
Naming PG&E in the headline is sensationalistic. The article says, "Workers may have struck the distribution pipeline while installing fiber-optic equipment beneath the street". You can see the excavator from the aerial footage! And news reports directly discuss the construction workers. By contrast, there's absolutely zero evidence PG&E has anything to do with it except nominally owning the pipe.
- twblalock 8y ago
  The real headline on Bloomberg's site at the moment is "PG&E Contains Gas Leak That Caused San Francisco Explosion," which gives a very different impression.
  - floatingatoll 8y ago
    Compare to: “PG&E unable to contain gas leak that caused explosion for over 2 hours” Just as true, just as biased. Yours is biased towards “just the current state only”, mine is biased towards “they are incompetent”. Bias is unavoidable. Simply stating facts makes it easier to disguise bias, and does not guarantee a lack thereof.
- snazz 8y ago
  I agree, it does seem to be unnecessary to mention the utility that owned the pipe in this case since they didn’t cause the accident. It’s fair to mention them in the body of the article, though, since it was only PG&E customers served by that particular pipe who were affected by the outages. Edit: now that I reread the original article title, I think it sounds much better than the current HN title.
  - mc32 8y ago
    Bloomberg changed their title after article was posted.
- mc32 8y ago
  And the media wonder why they have a credibility problem. It's the most basic type of reporting. News events. Not complicated policy issues or complex expert subject. Something occurred on the street and what do they do? They try to pile on the narrative that PG&E is bad. They supposedly caused the Tubbs fire, but according to CalFire[1] apparently (at least at this stage of the investigation) caused by non-PG&E power equipment (no word on Paradise, but that will take a while). [1]https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/24/cal-fire-private-equipment-not-pge-at-fault-for-deadly-tubbs-fire.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/24/cal-fire-private-equipment-n...
mruts 8y ago
Well, PG&E is declaring bankruptcy, so I guess all the creditors should just... stand in line? Not very many assets compared to the liabilities. Of course, bankruptcy is probably the best way to resolve this, so every creditor can be paid his fair share (and by fair share I mean maybe 1% of what they are owed). But at least everyone is going to get paid something versus a majority being paid nothing.
reustle 8y ago
> PG&E Corp. has contained a natural gas leak from a pipe that exploded on Wednesday along a major thoroughfare in San Francisco, engulfing in flames a stretch known for its bars and restaurants. I am the only one slightly annoyed with this writing style? I often see things like this, an it feels they want to be a bit more sensationalist but getting 'bars and restaurants' as close to the 'engulfing in flames' phrase as possible. This seems to trigger me as a reader to subconsciously tie the two together (engulfing bars and restaurants in flames) when that's not actually the case. Is there a term for this method of writing?
- floatingatoll 8y ago
  Inflammatory.
floatingatoll 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents_in_the_United_States_in_2018 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents_in_... For context, “workers strike pipeline and cause explosion” is so common that there’s annually-divided lists on Wikipedia. However, this uncovers a critical flaw in PG&E’s deployment: the nearest automated shutoff valve feeds the entire city, because – presumably to skimp on spending – no closer shutoff valve existed. It took them hours to close 7 pipes before they ceased the flow of fuel to the fire. PG&E may not be at fault for causing the strike, but they are at fault for the bad design that fed the fire afterwards.

56 points by Impossible 8y ago

It's insane how we just accept regular natural gas explosions as a thing, but we over-react at even the hint of non-lethal nuclear contamination.

randomacct3847 8y ago
Huh? I didn’t realize as a society we had “accepted natural gas explosions” as normal. The fact that this story even attracted national news tells me otherwise.
- dmoy 8y ago
  I think GP means we aren't now all calling to ban natural gas.
  - snazz 8y ago
    Most of us in more northern locales wouldn’t be too happy if we had to get new furnaces and stoves, but we don’t care too much where our grid electricity comes from since we aren’t personally invested in it.
- cc439 8y ago
  There are untold numbers of pipeline explosions that either stay confined to local reporting or are forgotten almost immediately after they happen. Here's a severe one that happened down the street from me several years ago that never made national news (Link 1). Then you have the explosions that sent suburban Massachusetts into a complete state of emergency, damaging 131 homes, injuring 21, and killing 1 person (Link 2). That event is severe enough IMO that it should have sparked a national debate on the state of our critical utilities as it paralyzed everyone living near one of America's major cities (these were the suburbs many people in Boston commute from or have family/friends in) for several days and led to massive heating crisis due to paranoia of another distaster just a few weeks ago (Link 3). Gas explosions are lethal, and apparently, surprisingly common despite being a weekly/monthly occurence as far back as I can remember. Link 1: https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/2014/01/11/enka-explosion-felt-for-miles/4425475/ https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/2014/01/11/enka-exp... (search for pictures, it was a massive fountain of flames for several hours) Link 2: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/12/regulator-ties-pipeline-work-to-deadly-massachusetts-gas-explosion.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/12/regulator-ties-pipeline-work... Link 3: https://www.wpri.com/news/local-news/east-bay/national-grid-working-to-restore-gas-service-in-newport-middletown/1714135023 https://www.wpri.com/news/local-news/east-bay/national-grid-...
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>It's insane how we just accept regular natural gas explosions as a thing If it were considered normal or commonplace major news outlets wouldn't be covering it. >but we over-react at even the hint of non-lethal nuclear contamination. I'll agree with that.
jasonjayr 8y ago
I'm not sure if anyone remembers or knows outside the USA Northeast, but https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/PLD18MR003-preliminary-report.aspx https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/PL... Gas company accidentally over pressurized the service line, and destroyed just about everyone's equipment in the area. IIRC they only recently got everyone back online, and it's cold up here in the Northeast.
mikeash 8y ago
If natural gas somehow never took off, and today you were trying to pitch the idea of running pipes full of poisonous, explosive gas to every house, you’d get run out of town.
- asdfadsfgfdda 8y ago
  Natural gas isn't particularly poisonous, is buoyant in air (tends to dissipate if leaked), and is cheaper than electric heating. At commercial prices, 1 million BTU of heat from natural gas costs ~$8, the equivalent .3 MW-hr electricity costs ~$15.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    I think it’s well worth the risk. I just ran a gas line to my house a couple of months ago because it’s the clear winner for heating. But I’m quite confident that the only reason people tolerate the idea is because it’s old. If it were a new idea, arguments such as yours would never be enough to win people over.
  - sjg007 8y ago
    Double the price isn’t that much. Plus with solar and wind it’ll get cheaper. Gas is historical pre electricity...
dboreham 8y ago
Yep. A friend was killed in one a number of years ago. I doubt that event was reported outside the local area. Took out 1/2 a city block too. They’re still rebuilding in the gap sites created, 10 years later.
userbinator 8y ago
It's one explosion, a fire, and after it's out you can start rebuilding pretty much immediately. With nuclear contamination, it stays around for a very long time.

wahern 8y ago

Naming PG&E in the headline is sensationalistic. The article says, "Workers may have struck the distribution pipeline while installing fiber-optic equipment beneath the street". You can see the excavator from the aerial footage! And news reports directly discuss the construction workers. By contrast, there's absolutely zero evidence PG&E has anything to do with it except nominally owning the pipe.

twblalock 8y ago
The real headline on Bloomberg's site at the moment is "PG&E Contains Gas Leak That Caused San Francisco Explosion," which gives a very different impression.
- floatingatoll 8y ago
  Compare to: “PG&E unable to contain gas leak that caused explosion for over 2 hours” Just as true, just as biased. Yours is biased towards “just the current state only”, mine is biased towards “they are incompetent”. Bias is unavoidable. Simply stating facts makes it easier to disguise bias, and does not guarantee a lack thereof.
snazz 8y ago
I agree, it does seem to be unnecessary to mention the utility that owned the pipe in this case since they didn’t cause the accident. It’s fair to mention them in the body of the article, though, since it was only PG&E customers served by that particular pipe who were affected by the outages. Edit: now that I reread the original article title, I think it sounds much better than the current HN title.
- mc32 8y ago
  Bloomberg changed their title after article was posted.
mc32 8y ago
And the media wonder why they have a credibility problem. It's the most basic type of reporting. News events. Not complicated policy issues or complex expert subject. Something occurred on the street and what do they do? They try to pile on the narrative that PG&E is bad. They supposedly caused the Tubbs fire, but according to CalFire[1] apparently (at least at this stage of the investigation) caused by non-PG&E power equipment (no word on Paradise, but that will take a while). [1]https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/24/cal-fire-private-equipment-not-pge-at-fault-for-deadly-tubbs-fire.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/24/cal-fire-private-equipment-n...

mruts 8y ago

Well, PG&E is declaring bankruptcy, so I guess all the creditors should just... stand in line? Not very many assets compared to the liabilities. Of course, bankruptcy is probably the best way to resolve this, so every creditor can be paid his fair share (and by fair share I mean maybe 1% of what they are owed). But at least everyone is going to get paid something versus a majority being paid nothing.

reustle 8y ago

> PG&E Corp. has contained a natural gas leak from a pipe that exploded on Wednesday along a major thoroughfare in San Francisco, engulfing in flames a stretch known for its bars and restaurants. I am the only one slightly annoyed with this writing style? I often see things like this, an it feels they want to be a bit more sensationalist but getting 'bars and restaurants' as close to the 'engulfing in flames' phrase as possible. This seems to trigger me as a reader to subconsciously tie the two together (engulfing bars and restaurants in flames) when that's not actually the case. Is there a term for this method of writing?

floatingatoll 8y ago
Inflammatory.

floatingatoll 8y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents_in_the_United_States_in_2018 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents_in_... For context, “workers strike pipeline and cause explosion” is so common that there’s annually-divided lists on Wikipedia. However, this uncovers a critical flaw in PG&E’s deployment: the nearest automated shutoff valve feeds the entire city, because – presumably to skimp on spending – no closer shutoff valve existed. It took them hours to close 7 pipes before they ceased the flow of fuel to the fire. PG&E may not be at fault for causing the strike, but they are at fault for the bad design that fed the fire afterwards.