10 ms·

No, eating more fruit and vegetables is correlated with improved mental wellbeing. In fact, the study, even though it was longitudinal, did not dissect if incre

No, eating more fruit and vegetables is correlated with improved mental wellbeing. In fact, the study, even though it was longitudinal, did not dissect if increasing the amount of fruits and vegetables eaten across a lifespan causes increased happiness even though they could have! The headline, and TFA, are like saying having more TVs per capita causes fewer babies to die. They are both obviously correlative, and clearly not causational. If the UK is anything like the US, there are some obvious confounding factors, with the most obvious being that poor people cannot afford to eat more fruit and vegetables, and that poor people are actively persecuted in our society. Hence you get studies that output the above headline. This isn't really news people.

dageshi 8y ago
> If the UK is anything like the US, there are some obvious confounding factors, with the most obvious being that poor people cannot afford to eat more fruit and vegetables, and that poor people are actively persecuted in our society. I'd put convenience above cost in most cases, there are worse but more convenient foods easily available that store for longer, require less preparation and in terms of fat/sugar adjusted taste buds taste better.
- fratlas 8y ago
  Can't wait until someone creates healthy, long shelf life food that is cheap, and tastes OK. Would be a game changer.
  - koolba 8y ago
    That exists. Oats!
    - gboudrias 8y ago
      He said tastes okay.
    - deevolution 8y ago
      With peanut butter, honey and other things, it's surprisingly tasty
    - osrec 8y ago
      Yes, but we need a variety of such foods.
    - twic 8y ago
      And lentils. You can cook lentils with water and salt and nothing else, and they come out edible and nice enough, if unexciting - but they serve as a fantastic canvas for adding small amounts of other long-lasting things (stock, oil, herbs, spices, cured meat) which add interest. Which is why my no-deal Brexit survival stash is a couple of kilos of Puy lentils, a bottle of olive oil, and a box of stock cubes!
  - mikekchar 8y ago
    It occurs to me (in all seriousness) that dog food fits that bill pretty well. Presumably we could easily make human versions. I think that there is more to it than that. Food that is not particularly good for you often tastes better and isn't any more expensive. It's that competition that makes it difficult. We can make pretty healthy dog food because we control what they eat -- they don't get to choose.
    - onemoresoop 8y ago
      What makes you think dog food is healthy?
      - mikekchar 8y ago
        From having raised dogs :-) Dogs have similar dietary requirements to humans. If you look closely at the nutrient breakdown in the dog food, you can see that it provides a very good balanced nutrition -- or at least it hits what they are aiming for. People can quibble about whether or not there are healthier nutrient breakdowns, but it's not really that hard to change things around. There are actually studies showing life expectancies for dogs eating dog food vs eating food made at home and they are higher for those eating dog food. There is a variety of reasons for that. For example, dogs are generally smaller than humans and dietary imbalances often have consequences sooner. So it's not really the case that dog food is super food or anything like that. It's just generally reasonable nutrition. The reason I found out about this is that I once thought about cooking for my dogs (I was cooking for myself every day anyway) and my vet highly discouraged me from doing so. She put me on to those papers (It was almost 20 years ago now, so I'm afraid I don't have any useful links, unfortunately). Dog food also tastes surprisingly good. I never fed my dogs anything that I didn't try first (which I suppose may be weird, but oh well). I can say that some dogs really like the taste of liver, but aside from that kind of thing, dog food is surprisingly good. Some of the wet canned food rivals prepared human meals in my opinion, though the price is a bit higher. I can't remember the brand, but I remember one "beef stew" which was insanely good. I would have happily had it as a meal. It seems like soylent.com is still around. I think they are making meal replacement drinks. Not my cup of tea, but at $1.80 per meal, it's fairly cheap and convenient. Not sure about taste (I think I'd go for the dog food myself!) However, it is almost exactly the average price for meals I cook for myself, so I'm not sure it's a great deal price wise. The same is also probably true of dog food to be fair.
  - kovrik 8y ago
    From the top of my head: beans. Canned fish (mackerel, sardines). Oats. Nuts/nut butters (ok, these are not that cheap).
  - Lorenzo45 8y ago
    Like Soylent?
    - fratlas 8y ago
      Similar, but solid and with some kind of taste
  - colordrops 8y ago
    Sardines.
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    Pre-cooked rice and curries fit the bill for me. Less than $5 per meal, 2 minutes to heat up, and tastes decent. Not terrible for you either.
    - miguelrochefort 8y ago
      I'm pretty sure it's terrible for you. What are the ingredients? How much do you get? $5 per meal is not cheap.
  - Mikeb85 8y ago
    Dried grains and legumes already exist, and provide the majority of calories that humans consume.
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    I lived on $2 a day for a couple of years (although also relying for variety on friends taking me out to lunch once or twice a week) - mainly 500g pasta + jar of pasta sauce (which had some herbs/veges in it), which made 2 meals and cost under $2. Sometimes also home-made cereal made from e.g. shredded coconut, wheat germ, sugar - surprisingly yummy. After about 3 months I splurged on a jar of garlic - man, that pasta was amazing! :-)
neetdeth 8y ago
This study was peer reviewed, and neither the researchers nor the reviewers are drooling morons as you seem to imply. From the article: "Based on prior research, we included a rich set of commonly observed predictors of well-being as control variables (see Dolan et al., 2008 for a review of this literature). These include socio-demographic variables such as age, household income, gender, relationship status, number of children and education. Such controls are important as it is possible that fruit and vegetable consumption would co-vary with, for example, income – someone becoming richer and as a result enjoying higher well-being scores and changing their food related behaviours. We also controlled for the presence of long-standing health conditions as well as health and lifestyle related behaviours such as walking frequency and smoking behaviour – again potential confounders that could bias any estimates of the relationship between fruit and vegetable consumption and well-being." While I do think a lot of research in the social sciences is of questionable value, there's no need to shoot from the hip just for the snarky HN comment.
- ppod 8y ago
  It's in the summary too: >They took account of many potential confounding factors, including age, income, marital status, number of children, employment status, smoking status, exercise levels (measured by days each week on which they walked for at least 10 minutes at a time) and whether they had a longstanding health condition. >The study has limitations, however. The most important is that this type of observational study can't tell us whether the fruit and veg consumption actually causes improved mental wellbeing. While the longitudinal design and the adjustment for potential confounding factors helps to make the results more robust, there may be something else unaccounted for at play here. The possibility that people who feel happier are more likely to choose healthier food, for example, cannot be ruled out. Its a responsible and cautious summary.
  - tapanjk 8y ago
    Is it fair to assume that one cannot just eat more of something without changing anything else? If yes, eating more fruit and veg can be accomplished by eating less of something else and/or increasing caloric requirement through increased physical activity. It would be very interesting to find out what that is, because that could be turned into actionable recommendation about how to eat more fruit and veg.
DanBC 8y ago
The article says this. > The difficulty is in knowing whether fruit and veg is actually the cause of their improved mental health. Researchers took account of factors such as people's age, income levels, marital and employment status and general health, and compared the same people's results over time. This approach helped to make the results more reliable. But we can't be sure that the results don't show, for example, that people eat more fruit and veg when they feel more cheerful, rather than the other way around.
chrisco255 8y ago
Fruits and veggies are among the cheapest items in any grocery store in the United States. And we provide food stamps to poor people for this very reason.
- iflint 8y ago
  This needs to be said more often. Money is not the problem, the time needed to shop and cook as well as the discipline necessary to consistently do so are the largest factors.
  - kiba 8y ago
    Some tricks and tips off the top of my head: * Sous vide: It's very easy to learn and make for juicy and delicious food easy. * Meal prep. Rather than cooking everyday of the week, spend two hours or so prepping meals for the rest of the week so that you don't have to cook. That said, the problem is that such knowledge isn't that widespread, although it's widely available on youtube university.
    - munk-a 8y ago
      Doing a big cook on the weekend is a good idea, but two hours or so is insufficient for a week if there are picky eaters involved. Processing the volume of veggies into food for a big meal like that will usually end up around two hours, but making multiple dishes in parallel adds a lot of time onto that, especially if you've got limited resources in terms of burners/cookware.
      - sevensor 8y ago
        I always make sure to provide two meal options for the picky eaters in my house. (1) take it. (2) leave it. The extra prep is minimal, I assure you.
        munk-a 8y ago
        Great, I'll try selling those options to my spouse who is having issues with low iron right now and for which cooking an additional meal option for the week is not an option. The "my way or the highway" approach is only really valid when children are involved so that advice is quite limited in terms of value.
open-source-ux 8y ago
"...people cannot afford to eat more fruit and vegetables" Fruit and vegetables are cheap in the UK. To look at prices, just visit any UK supermarket's website (e.g. asda.com, tesco.com, sainsburys.com etc). Lidl and Aldi can be cheaper, but often the cheapest of all are small independent grocery stores.
bellerose 8y ago
I agree & speculate that mental wellbeing has everything to do with finances. Including if a person develops a mental illness; of course there will be cases where the person is financially well off. Approximately 75% of suicides occur in low- and middle-income countries (LMICs) where rates of poverty are high. sources: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5454768/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5454768/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3431736/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3431736/ https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/suicide/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/suicide/index.html
tiew9Vii 8y ago
I never get the argument it’s more expensive to eat fruit and veg, I find it far cheaper. Sure go to your local supermarket it’s way overpriced and expensive. Go to your local green grocer or market and by seasonal produce, it’s cheap, really cheap. Even the stores like Aldi and Lidl are pretty cheap if you are short on time to go shopping round your local green grocery / market. Where fruit and vegetables are expensive is time, you have to prepare a meal vs putting a ready meal in the microwave for a few minutes.
- fourmii 8y ago
  Not sure where you're from, but in the US, a fast food meal is far cheaper than buying produce from grocery stores. That is if you can find a nearby grocery store to begin with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert
  - nicoburns 8y ago
    In the UK it tends to work out more or less even price wise. So it's a mostly a convenience vs health thing (ignoring taste preferences).
- nradov 8y ago
  Canned vegetables can be just as healthy as fresh, and common items like green beans and peas are super cheap.
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    Does "just as healthy" include PCBs from the cans? Google "pcb canned food".
- Jommi 8y ago
  How are you not thinking about differences between cities and countries?
dana321 8y ago
Eating fruit and raw vegetables for me does make me feel good and brings about a feel of wellbeing. Whether thats the sugar or the other nutrients that they bring i don't know. Its not really news, i agree, but to a lot of people it is. I agree that correlation is not causation in a lot of cases, but in this case its kind of true but it depends.. Raw is a lot better than cooked. Its also the difference between real physical wellbeing from nutrients/sugars, and percieved psychological wellbeing from eating certain foods. Apple pie might be more of a psychological wellbeing than raw apples which is more physiological, although cooking can bring out different types of nutrients in some cases.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
"with the most obvious being that poor people cannot afford to eat more fruit and vegetables" This is simply not true. In fact, the least expensive foods are fresh vegetables. Aside from the homeless, most poor people have some means to cook as well, giving them access to an astonishing variety of meals. Meat, milk, cheese, often expensive. Fruit and veg is the cheapest thing in the store. Processed/fast foods are more than likely the culprit in so many ways, it seems wherever you are in America, you're arms length from something massively processed, salty, fully of fats/sugars etc.. Same for Canada.
- miguelrochefort 8y ago
  I'm pretty sure fruits and vegetables (with some exceptions) are more expensive when you factor in calories and nutrients. https://efficiencyiseverything.com/calorie-per-dollar-list/ https://efficiencyiseverything.com/calorie-per-dollar-list/ https://efficiencyiseverything.com/applying-protein-per-dollar/ https://efficiencyiseverything.com/applying-protein-per-doll...
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    Your data actually confirms my thesis. But thanks for the data points, very helpful. Fruits and Veg are super cheap. A 10 lb bag of potatoes is $5 at Safeway in SF. That makes quite a number of 'servings' of McD's fries. Avg ground beef price in US is $5.50/pound in 2018, 1.8 ounces in McD hamburger = 62 cents for the meat. Wonderbread 20 pack of buns is $3 = 15 cents for the bun. A slice of tomato, bit of lettuce = not much. So the burger made at home is less than 90 cents. The soda is surely less expensive, especially on sale. So at least for 'fries, burger and coke' in the cheapest place, it's still cheaper to cook - and of course the 'expensive' part is the meat. It's very inexpensive to buy and cook vegetables, and most fruits are cheap as well. Meats etc. get a little tricky, but still cheaper than fast food. I'm really surprised at the comments indicating otherwise, this is pretty easy to see for people that buy food, I didn't think this would be contentious.
    - miguelrochefort 8y ago
barry-cotter 8y ago
> If the UK is anything like the US, there are some obvious confounding factors, with the most obvious being that poor people cannot afford to eat more fruit and vegetables, and that poor people are actively persecuted in our society. In that case the U.K. is nothing like the US because frozen vegetables are cheap, convenient and easy to cook. If you don’t want to eat vegetables that’s fine but in Europe it’s not going to be because they’re unavailable. A vegetarian diet is cheaper than an omnivorous one.
jSully24 8y ago
“...cannot afford to eat more fruit and vegetables” Worse than “can not afford”, they do not have access to fruit and veggis to start with. Do a search on “food desert” or “poor access fruit”. It is not good.
black-tea 8y ago
> poor people cannot afford to eat more fruit and vegetables, Why is this statement so persistent? Vegetables are the cheapest food there is. Lentils have long been a staple of students. Poor people are poor because they are bad with money and make poor decisions. That is why they don't eat vegetables.
- wbronitsky 8y ago
  Food deserts exist. This also assumes that time is free, which it is not. If someone has two jobs and lives in a food desert, buying and making their own food becomes a burden and very costly. > Poor people are poor because they are bad with money and make poor decisions. you seem like a hateful person. i dont understand how, faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary, how you can hold this in your heart. I truly hope you don't believe this. but seriously. you are discounting family wealth, education, racism, and just plain bad luck. your assertion is so hateful it would almost be comical if there weren't so many people pushing this hateful and destructive ideology

dageshi 8y ago

> If the UK is anything like the US, there are some obvious confounding factors, with the most obvious being that poor people cannot afford to eat more fruit and vegetables, and that poor people are actively persecuted in our society. I'd put convenience above cost in most cases, there are worse but more convenient foods easily available that store for longer, require less preparation and in terms of fat/sugar adjusted taste buds taste better.

fratlas 8y ago
Can't wait until someone creates healthy, long shelf life food that is cheap, and tastes OK. Would be a game changer.
- koolba 8y ago
  That exists. Oats!
  - gboudrias 8y ago
    He said tastes okay.
  - deevolution 8y ago
    With peanut butter, honey and other things, it's surprisingly tasty
  - osrec 8y ago
    Yes, but we need a variety of such foods.
  - twic 8y ago
    And lentils. You can cook lentils with water and salt and nothing else, and they come out edible and nice enough, if unexciting - but they serve as a fantastic canvas for adding small amounts of other long-lasting things (stock, oil, herbs, spices, cured meat) which add interest. Which is why my no-deal Brexit survival stash is a couple of kilos of Puy lentils, a bottle of olive oil, and a box of stock cubes!
- mikekchar 8y ago
  It occurs to me (in all seriousness) that dog food fits that bill pretty well. Presumably we could easily make human versions. I think that there is more to it than that. Food that is not particularly good for you often tastes better and isn't any more expensive. It's that competition that makes it difficult. We can make pretty healthy dog food because we control what they eat -- they don't get to choose.
  - onemoresoop 8y ago
    What makes you think dog food is healthy?
    - mikekchar 8y ago
      From having raised dogs :-) Dogs have similar dietary requirements to humans. If you look closely at the nutrient breakdown in the dog food, you can see that it provides a very good balanced nutrition -- or at least it hits what they are aiming for. People can quibble about whether or not there are healthier nutrient breakdowns, but it's not really that hard to change things around. There are actually studies showing life expectancies for dogs eating dog food vs eating food made at home and they are higher for those eating dog food. There is a variety of reasons for that. For example, dogs are generally smaller than humans and dietary imbalances often have consequences sooner. So it's not really the case that dog food is super food or anything like that. It's just generally reasonable nutrition. The reason I found out about this is that I once thought about cooking for my dogs (I was cooking for myself every day anyway) and my vet highly discouraged me from doing so. She put me on to those papers (It was almost 20 years ago now, so I'm afraid I don't have any useful links, unfortunately). Dog food also tastes surprisingly good. I never fed my dogs anything that I didn't try first (which I suppose may be weird, but oh well). I can say that some dogs really like the taste of liver, but aside from that kind of thing, dog food is surprisingly good. Some of the wet canned food rivals prepared human meals in my opinion, though the price is a bit higher. I can't remember the brand, but I remember one "beef stew" which was insanely good. I would have happily had it as a meal. It seems like soylent.com is still around. I think they are making meal replacement drinks. Not my cup of tea, but at $1.80 per meal, it's fairly cheap and convenient. Not sure about taste (I think I'd go for the dog food myself!) However, it is almost exactly the average price for meals I cook for myself, so I'm not sure it's a great deal price wise. The same is also probably true of dog food to be fair.
- kovrik 8y ago
  From the top of my head: beans. Canned fish (mackerel, sardines). Oats. Nuts/nut butters (ok, these are not that cheap).
- Lorenzo45 8y ago
  Like Soylent?
  - fratlas 8y ago
    Similar, but solid and with some kind of taste
- colordrops 8y ago
  Sardines.
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  Pre-cooked rice and curries fit the bill for me. Less than $5 per meal, 2 minutes to heat up, and tastes decent. Not terrible for you either.
  - miguelrochefort 8y ago
    I'm pretty sure it's terrible for you. What are the ingredients? How much do you get? $5 per meal is not cheap.
- Mikeb85 8y ago
  Dried grains and legumes already exist, and provide the majority of calories that humans consume.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  I lived on $2 a day for a couple of years (although also relying for variety on friends taking me out to lunch once or twice a week) - mainly 500g pasta + jar of pasta sauce (which had some herbs/veges in it), which made 2 meals and cost under $2. Sometimes also home-made cereal made from e.g. shredded coconut, wheat germ, sugar - surprisingly yummy. After about 3 months I splurged on a jar of garlic - man, that pasta was amazing! :-)

neetdeth 8y ago

This study was peer reviewed, and neither the researchers nor the reviewers are drooling morons as you seem to imply. From the article: "Based on prior research, we included a rich set of commonly observed predictors of well-being as control variables (see Dolan et al., 2008 for a review of this literature). These include socio-demographic variables such as age, household income, gender, relationship status, number of children and education. Such controls are important as it is possible that fruit and vegetable consumption would co-vary with, for example, income – someone becoming richer and as a result enjoying higher well-being scores and changing their food related behaviours. We also controlled for the presence of long-standing health conditions as well as health and lifestyle related behaviours such as walking frequency and smoking behaviour – again potential confounders that could bias any estimates of the relationship between fruit and vegetable consumption and well-being." While I do think a lot of research in the social sciences is of questionable value, there's no need to shoot from the hip just for the snarky HN comment.

ppod 8y ago
It's in the summary too: >They took account of many potential confounding factors, including age, income, marital status, number of children, employment status, smoking status, exercise levels (measured by days each week on which they walked for at least 10 minutes at a time) and whether they had a longstanding health condition. >The study has limitations, however. The most important is that this type of observational study can't tell us whether the fruit and veg consumption actually causes improved mental wellbeing. While the longitudinal design and the adjustment for potential confounding factors helps to make the results more robust, there may be something else unaccounted for at play here. The possibility that people who feel happier are more likely to choose healthier food, for example, cannot be ruled out. Its a responsible and cautious summary.
- tapanjk 8y ago
  Is it fair to assume that one cannot just eat more of something without changing anything else? If yes, eating more fruit and veg can be accomplished by eating less of something else and/or increasing caloric requirement through increased physical activity. It would be very interesting to find out what that is, because that could be turned into actionable recommendation about how to eat more fruit and veg.

DanBC 8y ago

The article says this. > The difficulty is in knowing whether fruit and veg is actually the cause of their improved mental health. Researchers took account of factors such as people's age, income levels, marital and employment status and general health, and compared the same people's results over time. This approach helped to make the results more reliable. But we can't be sure that the results don't show, for example, that people eat more fruit and veg when they feel more cheerful, rather than the other way around.

chrisco255 8y ago

Fruits and veggies are among the cheapest items in any grocery store in the United States. And we provide food stamps to poor people for this very reason.

iflint 8y ago
This needs to be said more often. Money is not the problem, the time needed to shop and cook as well as the discipline necessary to consistently do so are the largest factors.
- kiba 8y ago
  Some tricks and tips off the top of my head: * Sous vide: It's very easy to learn and make for juicy and delicious food easy. * Meal prep. Rather than cooking everyday of the week, spend two hours or so prepping meals for the rest of the week so that you don't have to cook. That said, the problem is that such knowledge isn't that widespread, although it's widely available on youtube university.
  - munk-a 8y ago
    Doing a big cook on the weekend is a good idea, but two hours or so is insufficient for a week if there are picky eaters involved. Processing the volume of veggies into food for a big meal like that will usually end up around two hours, but making multiple dishes in parallel adds a lot of time onto that, especially if you've got limited resources in terms of burners/cookware.
    - sevensor 8y ago
      I always make sure to provide two meal options for the picky eaters in my house. (1) take it. (2) leave it. The extra prep is minimal, I assure you.
      - munk-a 8y ago
        Great, I'll try selling those options to my spouse who is having issues with low iron right now and for which cooking an additional meal option for the week is not an option. The "my way or the highway" approach is only really valid when children are involved so that advice is quite limited in terms of value.

open-source-ux 8y ago

"...people cannot afford to eat more fruit and vegetables" Fruit and vegetables are cheap in the UK. To look at prices, just visit any UK supermarket's website (e.g. asda.com, tesco.com, sainsburys.com etc). Lidl and Aldi can be cheaper, but often the cheapest of all are small independent grocery stores.

bellerose 8y ago

I agree & speculate that mental wellbeing has everything to do with finances. Including if a person develops a mental illness; of course there will be cases where the person is financially well off. Approximately 75% of suicides occur in low- and middle-income countries (LMICs) where rates of poverty are high. sources: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5454768/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5454768/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3431736/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3431736/ https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/suicide/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/suicide/index.html

tiew9Vii 8y ago

I never get the argument it’s more expensive to eat fruit and veg, I find it far cheaper. Sure go to your local supermarket it’s way overpriced and expensive. Go to your local green grocer or market and by seasonal produce, it’s cheap, really cheap. Even the stores like Aldi and Lidl are pretty cheap if you are short on time to go shopping round your local green grocery / market. Where fruit and vegetables are expensive is time, you have to prepare a meal vs putting a ready meal in the microwave for a few minutes.

fourmii 8y ago
Not sure where you're from, but in the US, a fast food meal is far cheaper than buying produce from grocery stores. That is if you can find a nearby grocery store to begin with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert
- nicoburns 8y ago
  In the UK it tends to work out more or less even price wise. So it's a mostly a convenience vs health thing (ignoring taste preferences).
nradov 8y ago
Canned vegetables can be just as healthy as fresh, and common items like green beans and peas are super cheap.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  Does "just as healthy" include PCBs from the cans? Google "pcb canned food".
Jommi 8y ago
How are you not thinking about differences between cities and countries?

dana321 8y ago

Eating fruit and raw vegetables for me does make me feel good and brings about a feel of wellbeing. Whether thats the sugar or the other nutrients that they bring i don't know. Its not really news, i agree, but to a lot of people it is. I agree that correlation is not causation in a lot of cases, but in this case its kind of true but it depends.. Raw is a lot better than cooked. Its also the difference between real physical wellbeing from nutrients/sugars, and percieved psychological wellbeing from eating certain foods. Apple pie might be more of a psychological wellbeing than raw apples which is more physiological, although cooking can bring out different types of nutrients in some cases.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

"with the most obvious being that poor people cannot afford to eat more fruit and vegetables" This is simply not true. In fact, the least expensive foods are fresh vegetables. Aside from the homeless, most poor people have some means to cook as well, giving them access to an astonishing variety of meals. Meat, milk, cheese, often expensive. Fruit and veg is the cheapest thing in the store. Processed/fast foods are more than likely the culprit in so many ways, it seems wherever you are in America, you're arms length from something massively processed, salty, fully of fats/sugars etc.. Same for Canada.

miguelrochefort 8y ago
I'm pretty sure fruits and vegetables (with some exceptions) are more expensive when you factor in calories and nutrients. https://efficiencyiseverything.com/calorie-per-dollar-list/ https://efficiencyiseverything.com/calorie-per-dollar-list/ https://efficiencyiseverything.com/applying-protein-per-dollar/ https://efficiencyiseverything.com/applying-protein-per-doll...
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  Your data actually confirms my thesis. But thanks for the data points, very helpful. Fruits and Veg are super cheap. A 10 lb bag of potatoes is $5 at Safeway in SF. That makes quite a number of 'servings' of McD's fries. Avg ground beef price in US is $5.50/pound in 2018, 1.8 ounces in McD hamburger = 62 cents for the meat. Wonderbread 20 pack of buns is $3 = 15 cents for the bun. A slice of tomato, bit of lettuce = not much. So the burger made at home is less than 90 cents. The soda is surely less expensive, especially on sale. So at least for 'fries, burger and coke' in the cheapest place, it's still cheaper to cook - and of course the 'expensive' part is the meat. It's very inexpensive to buy and cook vegetables, and most fruits are cheap as well. Meats etc. get a little tricky, but still cheaper than fast food. I'm really surprised at the comments indicating otherwise, this is pretty easy to see for people that buy food, I didn't think this would be contentious.
  - miguelrochefort 8y ago

barry-cotter 8y ago

> If the UK is anything like the US, there are some obvious confounding factors, with the most obvious being that poor people cannot afford to eat more fruit and vegetables, and that poor people are actively persecuted in our society. In that case the U.K. is nothing like the US because frozen vegetables are cheap, convenient and easy to cook. If you don’t want to eat vegetables that’s fine but in Europe it’s not going to be because they’re unavailable. A vegetarian diet is cheaper than an omnivorous one.

jSully24 8y ago

“...cannot afford to eat more fruit and vegetables” Worse than “can not afford”, they do not have access to fruit and veggis to start with. Do a search on “food desert” or “poor access fruit”. It is not good.

black-tea 8y ago

> poor people cannot afford to eat more fruit and vegetables, Why is this statement so persistent? Vegetables are the cheapest food there is. Lentils have long been a staple of students. Poor people are poor because they are bad with money and make poor decisions. That is why they don't eat vegetables.

wbronitsky 8y ago
Food deserts exist. This also assumes that time is free, which it is not. If someone has two jobs and lives in a food desert, buying and making their own food becomes a burden and very costly. > Poor people are poor because they are bad with money and make poor decisions. you seem like a hateful person. i dont understand how, faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary, how you can hold this in your heart. I truly hope you don't believe this. but seriously. you are discounting family wealth, education, racism, and just plain bad luck. your assertion is so hateful it would almost be comical if there weren't so many people pushing this hateful and destructive ideology