3 ms·

Agree 100%, it has blown me away my whole life how engineers downplay marketing and [product|personal] presentation in spite of the reams of data suggesting it

Agree 100%, it has blown me away my whole life how engineers downplay marketing and [product|personal] presentation in spite of the reams of data suggesting it has some of the best ROI possible of anything you can spend your time improving. Do you want to make more money, get more connections, have everyone like you more and treat you better? It's as simple as buying some nicer shirts, getting regular haircuts, and eating better (which has its own host of plusses). Some programmers are 55 and really good. They also have stains on their t-shirts, are overweight, and act morose all the time. In a perfect world this wouldn't matter for a job interview, but you are not interviewing or operating for a job in a perfect world.

mhd 8y ago
In my experience, the opposite of the aforementioned 50-something hoodie wearer would be someone with a Oxford shirt and jacket, ie well-dressed, but not hip. And they might dress up similarly in their free time, when they're not with their co-workers. So the "Han Shot First" tee might be as much an unwanted disguise as the "business casual" dress code the startup bros avoid. I'm not saying that one shouldn't adapt a bit, but dyed hair and "How do you do, fellow kids" clothes overshoot the goal by a good bit.
ams6110 8y ago
> They also have stains on their t-shirts, are overweight, and act morose all the time. Describes more than one 20-something developer I know. Being a sloven does not correlate with age.
- jimbokun 8y ago
  Yes, but the 20-somethings don't need to over-compensate for age discrimination.
larrywright 8y ago
I often tell people (particularly younger ones, college age-ish) that one of the best ways to stand out among their peers is to learn how to dress. You don't have to wear a three piece suit, but wear clothes that are clean, fit your body (and body type), and look nice. This applies regardless of company dress code. If it's jeans, then wear nice jeans that aren't wrinkly or full of holes. Pair it with a nice shirt and shoes, and you'll look better than 90% of the people around you. If your job calls for something dressier, buy the best quality stuff you can afford (it will last longer), and get it tailored so that it fits you. This seems like a minor thing, but assuming you're not incompetent, someone who knows how to dress themselves will be perceived better by those whose opinions matter. The key is to match the general attire of the people around you, but do it a bit nicer. If everyone is wearing shorts and jeans, don't wear a suit to work. Edit: This advice isn't limited to young people, there are plenty of older people that need to learn how to dress themselves. As a general rule, though, the younger generation dresses a lot more casually than I did at their age, and many don't seem to have been taught when an occasion calls for dressing a little nicer.

mhd 8y ago

In my experience, the opposite of the aforementioned 50-something hoodie wearer would be someone with a Oxford shirt and jacket, ie well-dressed, but not hip. And they might dress up similarly in their free time, when they're not with their co-workers. So the "Han Shot First" tee might be as much an unwanted disguise as the "business casual" dress code the startup bros avoid. I'm not saying that one shouldn't adapt a bit, but dyed hair and "How do you do, fellow kids" clothes overshoot the goal by a good bit.

ams6110 8y ago

> They also have stains on their t-shirts, are overweight, and act morose all the time. Describes more than one 20-something developer I know. Being a sloven does not correlate with age.

jimbokun 8y ago
Yes, but the 20-somethings don't need to over-compensate for age discrimination.

larrywright 8y ago

I often tell people (particularly younger ones, college age-ish) that one of the best ways to stand out among their peers is to learn how to dress. You don't have to wear a three piece suit, but wear clothes that are clean, fit your body (and body type), and look nice. This applies regardless of company dress code. If it's jeans, then wear nice jeans that aren't wrinkly or full of holes. Pair it with a nice shirt and shoes, and you'll look better than 90% of the people around you. If your job calls for something dressier, buy the best quality stuff you can afford (it will last longer), and get it tailored so that it fits you. This seems like a minor thing, but assuming you're not incompetent, someone who knows how to dress themselves will be perceived better by those whose opinions matter. The key is to match the general attire of the people around you, but do it a bit nicer. If everyone is wearing shorts and jeans, don't wear a suit to work. Edit: This advice isn't limited to young people, there are plenty of older people that need to learn how to dress themselves. As a general rule, though, the younger generation dresses a lot more casually than I did at their age, and many don't seem to have been taught when an occasion calls for dressing a little nicer.