5 ms·

yeah, darn those pesky laws around liability getting in the way of some good old-fashioned handiwork.

by Sebguer 8y ago

Consultant32452 8y ago
As long as you're just replacing the fixture and not running new line a handy man type person can do it legally.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  In some jurisdictions. IIRC, Australia requires an electrician for even this sort of minor work.
- JohnTHaller 8y ago
  Generally, a landlord wants someone licensed with insurance to handle something like that on the off chance something goes wrong. I was going to fix the fixture in my bathroom that was shorting a bit and burning out bulbs myself. Thankfully I called my owner and he had an electrician come in because it turns out a lot of the conduit above the fixture needed replacing due to age.
  - Consultant32452 8y ago
    People who do handyman work for a living can and should carry liability coverage. example: https://www.progressivecommercial.com/business-insurance/handyman-insurance/ https://www.progressivecommercial.com/business-insurance/han...
    - nradov 8y ago
      The majority of people doing handyman work without a contractor license are effectively judgment proof so liability coverage is kind of pointless.
      - Consultant32452 8y ago
        Judgement proof typically means you have no money/assets to come after, so even if someone wins a judgement against you they aren't getting paid. That's why you ensure you hire a handyman with liability insurance, so that there's something (the insurance payout) to collect in the event of a problem. Do you mean something else by judgement proof?
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > As long as you're just replacing the fixture and not running new line a handy man type person can do it legally. That likely depends on local codes; not sure about light fixtures specifically, but I definitely have encountered variations in different cities in the same county when it comes to ceiling fans.
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
Few plumbers or electricians with a license are going to waste their time replacing your dryer or light fixture. They probably will send their (unlicensed) employee who's paid a couple bucks over minimum wage to do it. Their time is better spent on jobs that actually require their expertise. You know, the kind of jobs where you'd pay extra for a credentialed expert anyway. They probably will never set eyes on whatever you called them for. Those laws (especially when combined with licensing requirements that exclude all but those who have a full time career in that field) are a massive hindrance to individuals and many businesses. They usually amount to little more than a potential transfer of liability. If your house burns down maybe you can try to point the finger at the licensed professional (good luck at that). The only thing it accomplishes is making it (slightly) harder for people who are habitually grossly negligent to keep working in that field. This is a non-benefit IMO because so much business is based on reputation anyway. The downside is that by artificially raising the minimum price access to access skilled labor you cause all sorts of work to be forgone because people can't afford it. Plenty of house fires have been started by people who couldn't afford to pay an electrician but could afford an extension cord. Edit: Since I'm apparently so wrong does anyone want to explain why. A down-vote without a reply is roughly synonymous with "your opinion is inconvenient to me but I cannot refute it"
- reallydude 8y ago
  Because the majority of HN reader have always either paid someone or simply never been involved with: * Home rennovation (requiring city signoff) * Home repairs * Rental repairs * Court over repairs or alterations to property
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > A down-vote without a reply ...is using the downvote correctly. Downvoting is for comments that are not productive contributions to the kind of discussion desired on HN, responding to any post that merits a downvote is increasing the noise-to-signal ratio.
talltimtom 8y ago
The law once mandated that you hire the services of a licensed electrician to replace a lightbulb. Imagine if the same laws where applied to tech. Need to update Microsoft office? No way arround it you need to hire the services of a licensed IT professional! You might get electrocuted in the process not being a professional. So it all makes sense.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  It's not really possible to burn down your apartment building if you fail at updating Microsoft Office, so that's one big difference for gas/electrical laws.
- brlewis 8y ago
  Cite please. Was that ever really a law anywhere other than Victoria, Australia?
  - toss1 8y ago
    Actually it is the law at every trade show I've ever exhibited at, just about to the point where you can't plug in anything without a union electrician doing it. One can usually get away with plugging in a laptop, but certainly if you need anything more than the single standard 10A 2-outlet power drop, expect to pay and wait for the official electrician (and they will kick you out of the show for violations). Edit: I've seen this at least in NY, Florida, California
    - B1FF_PSUVM 8y ago
      > it is the law at every trade show I've ever exhibited at I've read that you can't move chairs, etc, either. I understand it's part of the contracts between venues and unions.
- nradov 8y ago
  That's not a law, just an event venue rule based on their union contracts.
ataturk 8y ago
Installing a gas stove or dryer is trivial work. It's chickenshit to make a plumber do it.

yeah, darn those pesky laws around liability getting in the way of some good old-fashioned handiwork.

Consultant32452 8y ago

As long as you're just replacing the fixture and not running new line a handy man type person can do it legally.

ceejayoz 8y ago
In some jurisdictions. IIRC, Australia requires an electrician for even this sort of minor work.
JohnTHaller 8y ago
Generally, a landlord wants someone licensed with insurance to handle something like that on the off chance something goes wrong. I was going to fix the fixture in my bathroom that was shorting a bit and burning out bulbs myself. Thankfully I called my owner and he had an electrician come in because it turns out a lot of the conduit above the fixture needed replacing due to age.
- Consultant32452 8y ago
  People who do handyman work for a living can and should carry liability coverage. example: https://www.progressivecommercial.com/business-insurance/handyman-insurance/ https://www.progressivecommercial.com/business-insurance/han...
  - nradov 8y ago
    The majority of people doing handyman work without a contractor license are effectively judgment proof so liability coverage is kind of pointless.
    - Consultant32452 8y ago
      Judgement proof typically means you have no money/assets to come after, so even if someone wins a judgement against you they aren't getting paid. That's why you ensure you hire a handyman with liability insurance, so that there's something (the insurance payout) to collect in the event of a problem. Do you mean something else by judgement proof?
dragonwriter 8y ago
> As long as you're just replacing the fixture and not running new line a handy man type person can do it legally. That likely depends on local codes; not sure about light fixtures specifically, but I definitely have encountered variations in different cities in the same county when it comes to ceiling fans.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

Few plumbers or electricians with a license are going to waste their time replacing your dryer or light fixture. They probably will send their (unlicensed) employee who's paid a couple bucks over minimum wage to do it. Their time is better spent on jobs that actually require their expertise. You know, the kind of jobs where you'd pay extra for a credentialed expert anyway. They probably will never set eyes on whatever you called them for. Those laws (especially when combined with licensing requirements that exclude all but those who have a full time career in that field) are a massive hindrance to individuals and many businesses. They usually amount to little more than a potential transfer of liability. If your house burns down maybe you can try to point the finger at the licensed professional (good luck at that). The only thing it accomplishes is making it (slightly) harder for people who are habitually grossly negligent to keep working in that field. This is a non-benefit IMO because so much business is based on reputation anyway. The downside is that by artificially raising the minimum price access to access skilled labor you cause all sorts of work to be forgone because people can't afford it. Plenty of house fires have been started by people who couldn't afford to pay an electrician but could afford an extension cord. Edit: Since I'm apparently so wrong does anyone want to explain why. A down-vote without a reply is roughly synonymous with "your opinion is inconvenient to me but I cannot refute it"

reallydude 8y ago
Because the majority of HN reader have always either paid someone or simply never been involved with: * Home rennovation (requiring city signoff) * Home repairs * Rental repairs * Court over repairs or alterations to property
dragonwriter 8y ago
> A down-vote without a reply ...is using the downvote correctly. Downvoting is for comments that are not productive contributions to the kind of discussion desired on HN, responding to any post that merits a downvote is increasing the noise-to-signal ratio.

talltimtom 8y ago

The law once mandated that you hire the services of a licensed electrician to replace a lightbulb. Imagine if the same laws where applied to tech. Need to update Microsoft office? No way arround it you need to hire the services of a licensed IT professional! You might get electrocuted in the process not being a professional. So it all makes sense.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago
It's not really possible to burn down your apartment building if you fail at updating Microsoft Office, so that's one big difference for gas/electrical laws.
brlewis 8y ago
Cite please. Was that ever really a law anywhere other than Victoria, Australia?
- toss1 8y ago
  Actually it is the law at every trade show I've ever exhibited at, just about to the point where you can't plug in anything without a union electrician doing it. One can usually get away with plugging in a laptop, but certainly if you need anything more than the single standard 10A 2-outlet power drop, expect to pay and wait for the official electrician (and they will kick you out of the show for violations). Edit: I've seen this at least in NY, Florida, California
  - B1FF_PSUVM 8y ago
    > it is the law at every trade show I've ever exhibited at I've read that you can't move chairs, etc, either. I understand it's part of the contracts between venues and unions.
nradov 8y ago
That's not a law, just an event venue rule based on their union contracts.

ataturk 8y ago

Installing a gas stove or dryer is trivial work. It's chickenshit to make a plumber do it.