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> designed by radio amateur and Nobel prize winning astrophysicist Joe Taylor He doesn't sound like an amateur at all

spiderfarmer 8y ago
I am not a native speaker, but it is my understanding that amateur has 2 definitions: 1) unpaid, 2) incompetent or inept. The Camras team is maintaining and operating the telescope on their own time. The members have dayjobs like programmers and scientists, or are retired professionals. So I'll go with the first definition.
- dtech 8y ago
  unpaid as in never having done something as a paid profession. A professional software developer who retires and programs as a hobby is not suddenly an amateur developer.
  - spiderfarmer 8y ago
    So a professional football player who after his career joins an amateur team for recreational football should not be regarded as an amateur?
  - Tor3 8y ago
    I don't think there's a definition like that anywhere. Only if you define 'amateur' as some who doesn't really know the trade. We should remember that 'amateur' actually means "lover of", i.e. that an amateur is simply someone doing it because they love to (as opposed to "just" because they're paid to do it). It doesn't say anything about the level.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - Humdeee 8y ago
    Yes, they would be. Amateur developer in this context can be interchangeable with open source developer for instance, programming as a hobby with others or just for yourself. It's just a title. You can be both a professional sw dev and an unpaid opensource dev at the same time. Likewise, you can be both an amateur HAM operator and a professional RF engineer at the same time, exclusive of each other.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
treve 8y ago
Not sure if this was a joke or serious, but 'amateur radio' refers basically to people who are into HAM radio. It doesn't necessarily preclude them from also working with radio professionally.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  I recently learn, and therefore want to tell everyone, the ham in Ham radio isn’t an acronym. It means ham as in ham fisted, as in amateurish or unskilled. See the Wikipedia entry for more info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio
  - Tor3 8y ago
    As per the linked wikipedia article.. it used to mean that (as a pejorative term coming from professional wired telegraphy in the 19th century). From the article ".. by the mid-20th century it had lost its pejorative meaning." But yes, it's not an acronym.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
      It can still mean ham as in ham fisted while not being pejorative.
amelius 8y ago
Doesn't sound very Dutch either ...
- consp 8y ago
  The encoding isn't, that is true. That part was about the team on the ground at the Dwingeloo 25m telescope. The (old) 25m telescope is now run by volunteers.
  - jandrese 8y ago
    Most people don't appreciate just how big a 25m dish is until they are standing next to one. The fact that one is being run by volunteers is remarkable.
segfaultbuserr 8y ago
> radio amateur I don't know if it's a British joke, but recall that "amateur" in "amateur radio" means "a duly authorised person interested in radioelectric practice with a purely personal aim and without pecuniary interest " (International Radiotelegraph Convention of Washington, 1927), i.e. anyone working with radio for the hobby, not for the job salary.
setquk 8y ago
Amateur here is "unpaid". Usually the obsessive nature of engineers, me included, means they tend to take the work home with them. Back when I was working for a defence contractor years and years ago there were a lot of amateur radio operators working on RF systems that had so much fun they went home and did another day's work there. Sometimes this was leveraged for personal gain and sometimes it actually played out and ended up in commercial radio systems. Similar to how a lot of people go home and write code. "Amateur programmers"
sharpneli 8y ago
The word amateur has two different meanings in English. "1. a person who engages in a pursuit, especially a sport, on an unpaid rather than a professional basis" "2. a person who is incompetent or inept at a particular activity" Here we refer to the first definition. The English word amateur comes from French "lover of". Someone who does things just because they like it, not because they get paid to do it.
- Johnythree 8y ago
  It should be obvious that there is a third meaning.. Amateur is short for "Amateur Radio operator", eg someone who holds an Amateur Radio License.
the6threplicant 8y ago
We need to start using the term "amateur" in it's original sense to mean "for the love of". This is why people call themselves amateur astronomers, say, not because they failed astronomy class but because they love their hobby of astronomy.
mimiflynn 8y ago
To experiment in radio on certain frequencies (like the ones needed to talk to satellites, requires a license from your nation's government, as radio frequencies are a shared resource. Certain levels of licensing is for 'amateurs' and other licenses are for more industrial things, like TV and what is commonly referred to as FM or AM radio. Communication with satellites in the US requires the highest level of amateur licensing called the Extra. http://www.arrl.org/what-is-ham-radio http://www.arrl.org/what-is-ham-radio
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  > the Extra. I'm now imagining the on-line radio amateur community poking fun at themselves when the recent slang interpretation of "extra" came along.
- DerekRobot 8y ago
  Actually, you can talk to satellites[1] using a technician license, because they use VHF/UHF. A general or extra is required for using certain HF bands. [1]http://www.arrl.org/getting-your-technician-license http://www.arrl.org/getting-your-technician-license
  - mimiflynn 8y ago
    This is great news, although I feel I want to keep studying for the Extra for the ham cred that comes with it ;)
howard941 8y ago
"Amateur" here is a term defined by treaty. Radio Amateurs are prohibited by law from receiving compensation for their activities (in the US W1AW's paid operators get an express exception). Furthermore, the comms themselves can't have commercial purposes and often can't involve non-amateurs if the communications displace commercial services. If the aviation world used similar terms a private pilot would be called an amateur pilot.

I am not a native speaker, but it is my understanding that amateur has 2 definitions: 1) unpaid, 2) incompetent or inept. The Camras team is maintaining and operating the telescope on their own time. The members have dayjobs like programmers and scientists, or are retired professionals. So I'll go with the first definition.

dtech 8y ago
unpaid as in never having done something as a paid profession. A professional software developer who retires and programs as a hobby is not suddenly an amateur developer.
- spiderfarmer 8y ago
  So a professional football player who after his career joins an amateur team for recreational football should not be regarded as an amateur?
- Tor3 8y ago
  I don't think there's a definition like that anywhere. Only if you define 'amateur' as some who doesn't really know the trade. We should remember that 'amateur' actually means "lover of", i.e. that an amateur is simply someone doing it because they love to (as opposed to "just" because they're paid to do it). It doesn't say anything about the level.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- Humdeee 8y ago
  Yes, they would be. Amateur developer in this context can be interchangeable with open source developer for instance, programming as a hobby with others or just for yourself. It's just a title. You can be both a professional sw dev and an unpaid opensource dev at the same time. Likewise, you can be both an amateur HAM operator and a professional RF engineer at the same time, exclusive of each other.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

treve 8y ago

Not sure if this was a joke or serious, but 'amateur radio' refers basically to people who are into HAM radio. It doesn't necessarily preclude them from also working with radio professionally.

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
I recently learn, and therefore want to tell everyone, the ham in Ham radio isn’t an acronym. It means ham as in ham fisted, as in amateurish or unskilled. See the Wikipedia entry for more info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio
- Tor3 8y ago
  As per the linked wikipedia article.. it used to mean that (as a pejorative term coming from professional wired telegraphy in the 19th century). From the article ".. by the mid-20th century it had lost its pejorative meaning." But yes, it's not an acronym.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    It can still mean ham as in ham fisted while not being pejorative.

amelius 8y ago

Doesn't sound very Dutch either ...

consp 8y ago
The encoding isn't, that is true. That part was about the team on the ground at the Dwingeloo 25m telescope. The (old) 25m telescope is now run by volunteers.
- jandrese 8y ago
  Most people don't appreciate just how big a 25m dish is until they are standing next to one. The fact that one is being run by volunteers is remarkable.

segfaultbuserr 8y ago

> radio amateur I don't know if it's a British joke, but recall that "amateur" in "amateur radio" means "a duly authorised person interested in radioelectric practice with a purely personal aim and without pecuniary interest " (International Radiotelegraph Convention of Washington, 1927), i.e. anyone working with radio for the hobby, not for the job salary.

setquk 8y ago

Amateur here is "unpaid". Usually the obsessive nature of engineers, me included, means they tend to take the work home with them. Back when I was working for a defence contractor years and years ago there were a lot of amateur radio operators working on RF systems that had so much fun they went home and did another day's work there. Sometimes this was leveraged for personal gain and sometimes it actually played out and ended up in commercial radio systems. Similar to how a lot of people go home and write code. "Amateur programmers"

sharpneli 8y ago

The word amateur has two different meanings in English. "1. a person who engages in a pursuit, especially a sport, on an unpaid rather than a professional basis" "2. a person who is incompetent or inept at a particular activity" Here we refer to the first definition. The English word amateur comes from French "lover of". Someone who does things just because they like it, not because they get paid to do it.

Johnythree 8y ago
It should be obvious that there is a third meaning.. Amateur is short for "Amateur Radio operator", eg someone who holds an Amateur Radio License.

the6threplicant 8y ago

We need to start using the term "amateur" in it's original sense to mean "for the love of". This is why people call themselves amateur astronomers, say, not because they failed astronomy class but because they love their hobby of astronomy.

mimiflynn 8y ago

To experiment in radio on certain frequencies (like the ones needed to talk to satellites, requires a license from your nation's government, as radio frequencies are a shared resource. Certain levels of licensing is for 'amateurs' and other licenses are for more industrial things, like TV and what is commonly referred to as FM or AM radio. Communication with satellites in the US requires the highest level of amateur licensing called the Extra. http://www.arrl.org/what-is-ham-radio http://www.arrl.org/what-is-ham-radio

vanderZwan 8y ago
> the Extra. I'm now imagining the on-line radio amateur community poking fun at themselves when the recent slang interpretation of "extra" came along.
DerekRobot 8y ago
Actually, you can talk to satellites[1] using a technician license, because they use VHF/UHF. A general or extra is required for using certain HF bands. [1]http://www.arrl.org/getting-your-technician-license http://www.arrl.org/getting-your-technician-license
- mimiflynn 8y ago
  This is great news, although I feel I want to keep studying for the Extra for the ham cred that comes with it ;)

howard941 8y ago

"Amateur" here is a term defined by treaty. Radio Amateurs are prohibited by law from receiving compensation for their activities (in the US W1AW's paid operators get an express exception). Furthermore, the comms themselves can't have commercial purposes and often can't involve non-amateurs if the communications displace commercial services. If the aviation world used similar terms a private pilot would be called an amateur pilot.