4 ms·

Wow. Just wow. So, in many European countries, fathers and mothers have a right to substantial amounts of parental leave. Like a year or more. In all of these

Wow. Just wow. So, in many European countries, fathers and mothers have a right to substantial amounts of parental leave. Like a year or more. In all of these places small businesses exist. In Sweden, with very extensive parental leave [1], there is a large number of start ups. So obviously, empirically, you must be missing something. Generally speaking, if your employees care about your business (and getting their job back after the leave) they will not take decisions that destroy this business. Some laws will also vary depending on company size, though parental leave is just such an obvious fundamental need and right that I am not aware of a country where it does. You might not think of yourself as immoral, but your post is definitely sexist, and I find the viewpoint you take towards your potential employers deeply unethical. Because people like you sometimes end up with power we need democratic states to fight back and keep a sense of perspective. [1] "New parents in Sweden are entitled to 480 days of leave at 80% of their normal pay. That’s on top of the 18 weeks reserved just for mothers, after which the parents can split up the time however they choose. Swedish dads also get 90 paid paternity days reserved just for them. Out of these 480 days, 60 must be taken by the father or else all are lost. This leave can be taken by the month, week, day or even by the hour." So fathers are forced to take more paternal leave in Sweden than mothers get in the US. https://www.dailyscandinavian.com/parental-leave-working-scandinavia/ https://www.dailyscandinavian.com/parental-leave-working-sca...

bluecalm 8y ago
I want to support women having babies. I just think current regulations put too much burden on the employers especially small ones. I also think it's unfair that a women who decided to have kids just after college doesn't get any (or way less) help that a women who found a job and get pregnant right after. A system set that way encourages women to have children later in life because they will get more benefits then. I think it's backwards and we are all paying the price already. I just want incentives to be aligned in a way that it doesn't make sense to make sexist decisions when hiring and it doesn't encourage women to postpone motherhood because of how benefits are set.
- room271 8y ago
  That's reasonable. But you still have to obey the law in the meantime.
Mirioron 8y ago
According to the 2018 SBA fact sheet about Sweden by the EU commission [1] Sweden does employ fewer people in small and micro businesses than are employed on average in the entirety of the EU. Small and micro businesses in Sweden employ 46.6% of the workforce, while in EU-28 the percentage is 49.4%. If you add medium businesses to it you get 65.5% for Sweden and 66.4% for EU-28. You can also find some interesting measurements about entrepreneurship in Sweden compared to the EU average int he report. I'm not saying this specific thing is the reason why Sweden's small businesses employ fewer people, but you can't just ignore this either. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/32581/attachments/28/translations/en/renditions/native https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/32581/attachments/28... (PDF)
- int_19h 8y ago
  Those numbers seem close enough that it's hard to conclude that there's a significant effect (especially given that there are many more variables at play here than just parental leave).
- pertymcpert 8y ago
  Wow, those percentages are really close. From your opening sentence it seemed like you were going to say something like 60% and 20%. Seems there's no point at all :)
  - Mirioron 8y ago
    The numbers have to be fairly close because they're in the same economic system. Furthermore, Sweden's numbers are included in the average as well.
    - pertymcpert 8y ago
      You said you can't just ignore this either, yet there is nothing to glean from your supposed point. The numbers are far too close, and Europe far too diverse to infer anything. It's a waste of the 30 seconds of life of anyone who reads the post.
tobbebex 8y ago
Dailyscandinavian seems to have mixed up the numbers a bit. In Sweden parents get 480 in total together, of which 390 are at 80% (capped at 989 SEK = 138 USD / day), and 90 days are at a minimum level (180 SEK = 25 USD). Out of the 480 days, 90 are reserved to each parent (used to be 60 before 2016) and the non-pregnant parent (usually a father) gets extra 10 days at the birth.

bluecalm 8y ago

I want to support women having babies. I just think current regulations put too much burden on the employers especially small ones. I also think it's unfair that a women who decided to have kids just after college doesn't get any (or way less) help that a women who found a job and get pregnant right after. A system set that way encourages women to have children later in life because they will get more benefits then. I think it's backwards and we are all paying the price already. I just want incentives to be aligned in a way that it doesn't make sense to make sexist decisions when hiring and it doesn't encourage women to postpone motherhood because of how benefits are set.

room271 8y ago
That's reasonable. But you still have to obey the law in the meantime.

Mirioron 8y ago

According to the 2018 SBA fact sheet about Sweden by the EU commission [1] Sweden does employ fewer people in small and micro businesses than are employed on average in the entirety of the EU. Small and micro businesses in Sweden employ 46.6% of the workforce, while in EU-28 the percentage is 49.4%. If you add medium businesses to it you get 65.5% for Sweden and 66.4% for EU-28. You can also find some interesting measurements about entrepreneurship in Sweden compared to the EU average int he report. I'm not saying this specific thing is the reason why Sweden's small businesses employ fewer people, but you can't just ignore this either. [1] https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/32581/attachments/28/translations/en/renditions/native https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/32581/attachments/28... (PDF)

int_19h 8y ago
Those numbers seem close enough that it's hard to conclude that there's a significant effect (especially given that there are many more variables at play here than just parental leave).
pertymcpert 8y ago
Wow, those percentages are really close. From your opening sentence it seemed like you were going to say something like 60% and 20%. Seems there's no point at all :)
- Mirioron 8y ago
  The numbers have to be fairly close because they're in the same economic system. Furthermore, Sweden's numbers are included in the average as well.
  - pertymcpert 8y ago
    You said you can't just ignore this either, yet there is nothing to glean from your supposed point. The numbers are far too close, and Europe far too diverse to infer anything. It's a waste of the 30 seconds of life of anyone who reads the post.

tobbebex 8y ago

Dailyscandinavian seems to have mixed up the numbers a bit. In Sweden parents get 480 in total together, of which 390 are at 80% (capped at 989 SEK = 138 USD / day), and 90 days are at a minimum level (180 SEK = 25 USD). Out of the 480 days, 90 are reserved to each parent (used to be 60 before 2016) and the non-pregnant parent (usually a father) gets extra 10 days at the birth.