5 ms·

I read a few times the results at texpion (the first 4 results from that DDG query), and I must say that I'm confused. I was expecting to see some particularly

I read a few times the results at texpion (the first 4 results from that DDG query), and I must say that I'm confused. I was expecting to see some particularly good results in favor of AV1, but the "Conclusions" section in page 1 state that: * both x264 and x265 take less time to encode and the produce smaller files (lossless compression) * AV1 takes 160x-190x more time than x264 (lossless compression) * AV1 can't take advantage of multi-threading the same way x264 and x265 can. Neither for encoding nor for decoding. * AV1 requires 3.5x-6x more CPU power to decode than x264 I just fail to see how AV1 is "all around better". Can you share another link? Maybe this time more specific so I can read the data you used to get to that conclusion.

clouddrover 8y ago
> AV1 can't take advantage of multi-threading the same way x264 and x265 can. Neither for encoding nor for decoding. Dav1d is an AV1 decoder which takes advantage of multi-threading: https://code.videolan.org/videolan/dav1d https://code.videolan.org/videolan/dav1d https://medium.com/@ewoutterhoeven/dav1d-0-1-0-release-the-first-benchmarks-5404360e44e3 https://medium.com/@ewoutterhoeven/dav1d-0-1-0-release-the-f... BitMovin and Intel both have AV1 encoders which can take advantage of multiple cores. BitMovin demonstrated live AV1 video almost two years ago: https://bitmovin.com/bitmovin-supports-av1-encoding-vod-live-joins-alliance-open-media/ https://bitmovin.com/bitmovin-supports-av1-encoding-vod-live... https://bitmovin.com/constantly-evolving-video-landscape-display-ibc-2017/ https://bitmovin.com/constantly-evolving-video-landscape-dis... https://github.com/OpenVisualCloud/SVT-AV1 https://github.com/OpenVisualCloud/SVT-AV1
- alexandernst 8y ago
  The article (nor my comment) doesn't say that AV1 can't do multithreading. What the article at texpion says is that it can't make CPU cores sustain hight loads the same way x264/x265 does. That said, I have no idea whatsoever about video codecs; I'm just saying what I understood from the link I was provided with.
  - clouddrover 8y ago
    dav1d can make use of the CPU at sustained high loads if you want it to. It can do over 30 frames a second on even a single core of an Apple A12X, and over 100 frames on an A12x using multiple cores.
paulmd 8y ago
AV1 isn't mature enough to make it worth sinking a bunch of time into optimizing an encoder for yet. There will eventually be multi-threaded AV1 encoders but the format needs to stabilize first. There is no guarantee that a file you encode today will play on anything in the future. It is in no way ready for primetime, maybe in another 3-5 years it will be at the enthusiast/pirate stage and commercial usage in 7-10 years. Also, do bear in mind that the primary use-case here is for Youtube to cut down their bandwidth consumption, and other similar users who don't mind doing a one-time encode that either takes a while, or needs to be run with process-level parallelism (different files at the same time). Multi-threaded encoders are not really a primary design goal here. The format is practically worthless until there is a hardware decoder for it, nobody will software-decode AV1 on their smartphones or laptops. Nobody is going to design a hardware encoder until the standard stabilizes. Google can do all the Youtube encodes they want but they are going to have to keep developing and serving H264 for a long, long time.
- clouddrover 8y ago
  > nobody will software-decode AV1 on their smartphones or laptops Dav1d (https://code.videolan.org/videolan/dav1d https://code.videolan.org/videolan/dav1d) runs fine on my laptop for 1080p AV1 decoding. Your mileage may vary. > Nobody is going to design a hardware encoder until the standard stabilizes. NGCodec will release a hardware encoder this year. They use FPGAs for their encoders. Twitch uses NGCodec for their live VP9 streaming: https://ngcodec.com/news/2019/1/7/ngcodec-announces-av1-support-and-a-2x-performance-improvement-in-broadcast-quality-live-video-encoding https://ngcodec.com/news/2019/1/7/ngcodec-announces-av1-supp... https://blog.twitch.tv/how-does-vp9-deliver-value-for-twitchs-esports-live-streaming-35db26f6322f https://blog.twitch.tv/how-does-vp9-deliver-value-for-twitch...
  - galad87 8y ago
    It might run fine, but it won’t compare to the hardware decoder when running on battery.
    - clouddrover 8y ago

clouddrover 8y ago

> AV1 can't take advantage of multi-threading the same way x264 and x265 can. Neither for encoding nor for decoding. Dav1d is an AV1 decoder which takes advantage of multi-threading: https://code.videolan.org/videolan/dav1d https://code.videolan.org/videolan/dav1d https://medium.com/@ewoutterhoeven/dav1d-0-1-0-release-the-first-benchmarks-5404360e44e3 https://medium.com/@ewoutterhoeven/dav1d-0-1-0-release-the-f... BitMovin and Intel both have AV1 encoders which can take advantage of multiple cores. BitMovin demonstrated live AV1 video almost two years ago: https://bitmovin.com/bitmovin-supports-av1-encoding-vod-live-joins-alliance-open-media/ https://bitmovin.com/bitmovin-supports-av1-encoding-vod-live... https://bitmovin.com/constantly-evolving-video-landscape-display-ibc-2017/ https://bitmovin.com/constantly-evolving-video-landscape-dis... https://github.com/OpenVisualCloud/SVT-AV1 https://github.com/OpenVisualCloud/SVT-AV1

alexandernst 8y ago
The article (nor my comment) doesn't say that AV1 can't do multithreading. What the article at texpion says is that it can't make CPU cores sustain hight loads the same way x264/x265 does. That said, I have no idea whatsoever about video codecs; I'm just saying what I understood from the link I was provided with.
- clouddrover 8y ago
  dav1d can make use of the CPU at sustained high loads if you want it to. It can do over 30 frames a second on even a single core of an Apple A12X, and over 100 frames on an A12x using multiple cores.

paulmd 8y ago

AV1 isn't mature enough to make it worth sinking a bunch of time into optimizing an encoder for yet. There will eventually be multi-threaded AV1 encoders but the format needs to stabilize first. There is no guarantee that a file you encode today will play on anything in the future. It is in no way ready for primetime, maybe in another 3-5 years it will be at the enthusiast/pirate stage and commercial usage in 7-10 years. Also, do bear in mind that the primary use-case here is for Youtube to cut down their bandwidth consumption, and other similar users who don't mind doing a one-time encode that either takes a while, or needs to be run with process-level parallelism (different files at the same time). Multi-threaded encoders are not really a primary design goal here. The format is practically worthless until there is a hardware decoder for it, nobody will software-decode AV1 on their smartphones or laptops. Nobody is going to design a hardware encoder until the standard stabilizes. Google can do all the Youtube encodes they want but they are going to have to keep developing and serving H264 for a long, long time.

clouddrover 8y ago
> nobody will software-decode AV1 on their smartphones or laptops Dav1d (https://code.videolan.org/videolan/dav1d https://code.videolan.org/videolan/dav1d) runs fine on my laptop for 1080p AV1 decoding. Your mileage may vary. > Nobody is going to design a hardware encoder until the standard stabilizes. NGCodec will release a hardware encoder this year. They use FPGAs for their encoders. Twitch uses NGCodec for their live VP9 streaming: https://ngcodec.com/news/2019/1/7/ngcodec-announces-av1-support-and-a-2x-performance-improvement-in-broadcast-quality-live-video-encoding https://ngcodec.com/news/2019/1/7/ngcodec-announces-av1-supp... https://blog.twitch.tv/how-does-vp9-deliver-value-for-twitchs-esports-live-streaming-35db26f6322f https://blog.twitch.tv/how-does-vp9-deliver-value-for-twitch...
- galad87 8y ago
  It might run fine, but it won’t compare to the hardware decoder when running on battery.
  - clouddrover 8y ago