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Re: "Download the app!" gates, banners, etc. Medium does this too. Why? What's the business reason? What does a native app provide the business that a mobile w

Re: "Download the app!" gates, banners, etc. Medium does this too. Why? What's the business reason? What does a native app provide the business that a mobile website doesn't?

maxxxxx 8y ago
I think it has to do with analytics but maybe someone else knows more.
- totololo 8y ago
  I would guess that with an app users are signed in and precisely identified 100% of the time, which allows for very reliable and deep user analytics.
lancesells 8y ago
Metrics, ads, notifications, install base.
smitty1110 8y ago
You can probably grab the IDFA or the ADID with an app directly, and having a stronger linkage between an online identity/cookie probably makes the data more valuable for advertising purposes.
- fumar 8y ago
  100% device IDs are deterministic vs cookies. Advertiser platforms (like Reddit) need to tell a compelling audience story and that requires a strong user identity graph.
dx87 8y ago
Forcing people to use a native app means they can inject ads without having to worry about being blocked by a browser extension.
- dawnerd 8y ago
  And don’t forget tracking scripts too. Another huge reason.
- binarysaurus 8y ago
  Many users who use mobile adblockers will use one across the entire device (easy on rooted Android) instead of just a browser extension.
  - airstrike 8y ago
    I'm pulling these numbers out of a hat, but I would wager users with rooted Android devices are below 1% of the mobile user base, and probably below 0.1% of the total user base including desktop.
    - anonymousab 8y ago
      On Android, it used to be the case that many ad blocking apps were just Proxy services.
      - throwmeback 8y ago
        Blokada (https://blokada.org/ https://blokada.org/) acts as a VPN. It slows my connection speeds to a halt.
  - asdff 8y ago
    Aren't the majority of users on iOS or unrooted android?
  - skinnymuch 8y ago
    How many users have rooted Android? Especially people in the west who are worth a lot more to advertisers? It can’t be that high anymore. All the signals seem to be that rooting is trending down. I could be wrong of course as I have no hard data.
  - delecti 8y ago
GavinB 8y ago
It gives users easier access and a better experience, so they're more likely to return and to spend longer. The ultimate goal is to become a "default time waster" for as many people as possible, who open the app whenever they're bored.
- jmanderley 8y ago
  Also, out of the reach of adblockers or tracking blockers.
  - Spivak 8y ago
    Sure, but on mobile people don't run ad blockers very often and if they do it's system wide like AdGuard.
    - MrMember 8y ago
      It's a lot easier to run browser based ad blockers now than it used to be. Mobile Safari now allows them and installing an adblock extension in Firefox for Android is as easy as on desktop.
- gowld 8y ago
  There's no "better experience" in an app, unless it relies on native features like low-level high performance graphics, accelerometer/sensors, and other physical phone attributes not yet exposed to browsers.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Specific native features that you're missing are platform controls, better UI performance, and support for APIs like notifications.
    - simple_phrases 8y ago
      A comments section on a news site doesn't need high performance UI controls or native notifications.
ageitgey 8y ago
The prevailing "business person" thought is that app users are more loyal (high value) while web users are temporary users that Google will eventually steal away from you when they decide they want to be in your market and want to stop putting you at the top of search result pages. See Yelp's decline as Google started putting their own local results above Yelp and the resulting lawsuits. As a result, most Silicon Valley product managers are trained to think that websites are nothing more than the top of a funnel to eventually convert low-value search engine users into high-value app users. Once you realize this, almost every stupid thing websites do suddenly makes sense. They will do almost anything possible to grow app installs even if it makes the website nearly useless. Sure, it's terrible if you care about the web and user experience. But most PMs only stick around a company for 1-2 years and they'd rather be able to show a hockey stick graph of "high value" app user growth to get promoted or get a new job then worry about what makes for a good user experience.
- martinald 8y ago
  Agreed. This is a great analysis. Also keep in mind if the funnel thinks web users are low value and app users are high value, if web users fall it is a sign that the strategy is working. Not that you have loads of annoyed users.
- gowld 8y ago
  It's not the PMs being rogue evil; they (and the engineers) are serving their employers faithfully. Another reason is that a local app can spy on you more (track your location, for example) to collect data to sell, harass you with notification spam, and display non-blockable ads.
  - OkGoDoIt 8y ago
    I think the non-blockable ads is a big one. In my browser Facebook has no ads, the app on my phone is full of them.
- RankingMember 8y ago
  Yep. Another more recent example is Venmo. Since Paypal acquired them, they've been steadily removing functionality from the website to force users onto the app.
perishabledave 8y ago
Aside from the other mentioned reasons, browsers can have ad blockers installed. The reddit mobile app ensures they can monetize. [edit] now that I think of it, probably the same reason Twitch was pushing its desktop app.
beagle3 8y ago
Users are more likely to give apps e.g. location permission, or contact list permissions, which make a user value (in eyeball models) aignificantly higher than a web user.
thisisweirdok 8y ago
Business has one number they want to increase: app usage (easier to track users, serve ads, make money) The dev team A/B tests a bunch of options until that number goes up, and then double down on the success. They don't really care about what users actually want, they're just pushing that app number up in any way possible. Their job performance is likely based on whether or not that number increases. Medium does this too and it's a huge danger of taking a data-first approach to user experience. A/B testing on its own isn't bad, but it's often what drives this business behavior. A huge investment will likely make them push this type of thing even harder because now they have to prove the investment's worth.
pbhjpbhj 8y ago
A lot of people are mentioning tracking, etc.. I think another major reason is that if someone is seeking to amuse themselves then in a browser they're as likely to skip over to another website; whilst in an app there's a mental barrier to that. I imagine people are more likely to change and view another subreddit, rather than jump to another website altogether. There's a censorship angle too, wherein the app operators get greater control over the message their users receive than do website operators.
didip 8y ago
I wish that button actually works reliably. More often than not, I got redirected to App Store to re-download Reddit app, instead of launching the post in the app.
shay_ker 8y ago
Biz reason: No adblock, push notifications Product reason: (potentially) better ux/design, but obviously a lot of people think they went down the wrong route
lazyjones 8y ago
> Why? What's the business reason? What does a native app provide the business that a mobile website doesn't? Simple: you can’t block ads in a native App (at least not by installing an ad blocker or other methods accessible to normal users, you‘d have to modify DNS responses or similar).

Re: "Download the app!" gates, banners, etc. Medium does this too. Why? What's the business reason? What does a native app provide the business that a mobile website doesn't?

maxxxxx 8y ago

I think it has to do with analytics but maybe someone else knows more.

totololo 8y ago
I would guess that with an app users are signed in and precisely identified 100% of the time, which allows for very reliable and deep user analytics.

lancesells 8y ago

Metrics, ads, notifications, install base.

smitty1110 8y ago

You can probably grab the IDFA or the ADID with an app directly, and having a stronger linkage between an online identity/cookie probably makes the data more valuable for advertising purposes.

fumar 8y ago
100% device IDs are deterministic vs cookies. Advertiser platforms (like Reddit) need to tell a compelling audience story and that requires a strong user identity graph.

dx87 8y ago

Forcing people to use a native app means they can inject ads without having to worry about being blocked by a browser extension.

dawnerd 8y ago
And don’t forget tracking scripts too. Another huge reason.
binarysaurus 8y ago
Many users who use mobile adblockers will use one across the entire device (easy on rooted Android) instead of just a browser extension.
- airstrike 8y ago
  I'm pulling these numbers out of a hat, but I would wager users with rooted Android devices are below 1% of the mobile user base, and probably below 0.1% of the total user base including desktop.
  - anonymousab 8y ago
    On Android, it used to be the case that many ad blocking apps were just Proxy services.
    - throwmeback 8y ago
      Blokada (https://blokada.org/ https://blokada.org/) acts as a VPN. It slows my connection speeds to a halt.
- asdff 8y ago
  Aren't the majority of users on iOS or unrooted android?
- skinnymuch 8y ago
  How many users have rooted Android? Especially people in the west who are worth a lot more to advertisers? It can’t be that high anymore. All the signals seem to be that rooting is trending down. I could be wrong of course as I have no hard data.
- delecti 8y ago

GavinB 8y ago

It gives users easier access and a better experience, so they're more likely to return and to spend longer. The ultimate goal is to become a "default time waster" for as many people as possible, who open the app whenever they're bored.

jmanderley 8y ago
Also, out of the reach of adblockers or tracking blockers.
- Spivak 8y ago
  Sure, but on mobile people don't run ad blockers very often and if they do it's system wide like AdGuard.
  - MrMember 8y ago
    It's a lot easier to run browser based ad blockers now than it used to be. Mobile Safari now allows them and installing an adblock extension in Firefox for Android is as easy as on desktop.
gowld 8y ago
There's no "better experience" in an app, unless it relies on native features like low-level high performance graphics, accelerometer/sensors, and other physical phone attributes not yet exposed to browsers.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Specific native features that you're missing are platform controls, better UI performance, and support for APIs like notifications.
  - simple_phrases 8y ago
    A comments section on a news site doesn't need high performance UI controls or native notifications.

ageitgey 8y ago

The prevailing "business person" thought is that app users are more loyal (high value) while web users are temporary users that Google will eventually steal away from you when they decide they want to be in your market and want to stop putting you at the top of search result pages. See Yelp's decline as Google started putting their own local results above Yelp and the resulting lawsuits. As a result, most Silicon Valley product managers are trained to think that websites are nothing more than the top of a funnel to eventually convert low-value search engine users into high-value app users. Once you realize this, almost every stupid thing websites do suddenly makes sense. They will do almost anything possible to grow app installs even if it makes the website nearly useless. Sure, it's terrible if you care about the web and user experience. But most PMs only stick around a company for 1-2 years and they'd rather be able to show a hockey stick graph of "high value" app user growth to get promoted or get a new job then worry about what makes for a good user experience.

martinald 8y ago
Agreed. This is a great analysis. Also keep in mind if the funnel thinks web users are low value and app users are high value, if web users fall it is a sign that the strategy is working. Not that you have loads of annoyed users.
gowld 8y ago
It's not the PMs being rogue evil; they (and the engineers) are serving their employers faithfully. Another reason is that a local app can spy on you more (track your location, for example) to collect data to sell, harass you with notification spam, and display non-blockable ads.
- OkGoDoIt 8y ago
  I think the non-blockable ads is a big one. In my browser Facebook has no ads, the app on my phone is full of them.
RankingMember 8y ago
Yep. Another more recent example is Venmo. Since Paypal acquired them, they've been steadily removing functionality from the website to force users onto the app.

perishabledave 8y ago

Aside from the other mentioned reasons, browsers can have ad blockers installed. The reddit mobile app ensures they can monetize. [edit] now that I think of it, probably the same reason Twitch was pushing its desktop app.

beagle3 8y ago

Users are more likely to give apps e.g. location permission, or contact list permissions, which make a user value (in eyeball models) aignificantly higher than a web user.

thisisweirdok 8y ago

Business has one number they want to increase: app usage (easier to track users, serve ads, make money) The dev team A/B tests a bunch of options until that number goes up, and then double down on the success. They don't really care about what users actually want, they're just pushing that app number up in any way possible. Their job performance is likely based on whether or not that number increases. Medium does this too and it's a huge danger of taking a data-first approach to user experience. A/B testing on its own isn't bad, but it's often what drives this business behavior. A huge investment will likely make them push this type of thing even harder because now they have to prove the investment's worth.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago

A lot of people are mentioning tracking, etc.. I think another major reason is that if someone is seeking to amuse themselves then in a browser they're as likely to skip over to another website; whilst in an app there's a mental barrier to that. I imagine people are more likely to change and view another subreddit, rather than jump to another website altogether. There's a censorship angle too, wherein the app operators get greater control over the message their users receive than do website operators.

didip 8y ago

I wish that button actually works reliably. More often than not, I got redirected to App Store to re-download Reddit app, instead of launching the post in the app.

shay_ker 8y ago

Biz reason: No adblock, push notifications Product reason: (potentially) better ux/design, but obviously a lot of people think they went down the wrong route

lazyjones 8y ago

> Why? What's the business reason? What does a native app provide the business that a mobile website doesn't? Simple: you can’t block ads in a native App (at least not by installing an ad blocker or other methods accessible to normal users, you‘d have to modify DNS responses or similar).