11 ms·

If I put in my time, if I learn valuable skills, if I make smart choices, if I choose to do something complex over something menial, then I would want to see my

If I put in my time, if I learn valuable skills, if I make smart choices, if I choose to do something complex over something menial, then I would want to see myself doing better than people who did not choose to do those things, no matter how nice and kind they may be. Anything else, would be unfair and make me question the point of my efforts.

cmsonger 8y ago
Someone else does not have to do badly for you to do better.
- supermw 8y ago
  As an individual I am hardly responsible for others doing badly.
  - lghh 8y ago
    In a society that rewards hoarding the finite capital that exists, you sort of are.
TeMPOraL 8y ago
Most people didn't have the choice you did.
- supermw 8y ago
  My choices were nothing special: Pay attention in school, do my homework, get good grades, pick a meaningful hobby, don't drink or do drugs, don't beat up other kids for fun, read books, work in a retail store, stay away from drama, get into a decent college and choose a good major, do internships, network, pick up recommendations, get interviews at tech companies, get tech job, start paying debts, save and invest money, move and get better tech job, save and invest more money, pay more debts, keep learning new skills, get even better tech job, pay off debt, save and invest even MORE money, get promotion, save and invest TONS of money... by now you can see compounding effects are kicking in and not much can stop me. All this from a poor boy born in Raleigh.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    > My choices were nothing special: Pay attention in school, do my homework, get good grades, pick a meaningful hobby, don't drink or do drugs, don't beat up other kids for fun, read books, work in a retail store, stay away from drama I concede that the rest of this list is choices you made, but I wonder how much of the part I quoted can be attributed to actual, conscious choice on your part. Me personally, I'm in tech by pure luck. Because my mother let me watch Star Trek as a kid, because my father arranged for a PC in our house, because they gave me essentially unlimited and unsupervised time in front of it, and because I lucked out with education reform that transferred me out of the worst class in primary school to the best one in secondary school - only because of that, I picked up programming as a hobby. My job, my knowledge and my material situation are pretty much directly attributable to this. It wasn't my choice.
    - amanaplanacanal 8y ago
      A lot of people think that their success was entirely by their own efforts. I'm with you, there was a lot of luck involved. Things that contributed to my success that I had nothing to do with: I'm white. I was born in the US. I'm male. I have a reasonably high IQ. My parents were middle class. I was raised in a medium sized town on the west coast. I was interested in computers and an early adopter. I stumbled into jobs that let me use that interest and make a successful career out of it. Certainly I made some good decisions along the way, but in different circumstances I could have turned out completely differently.
    - supermw 8y ago
      A lot of those things are conscious choices... I suppose getting good grades is tough if you are not intelligent and were born with a bad brain, or paying attention might be tough if you had ADD. Some of it may just be a result of having decent parents that instill good values in you, like warning you about hanging with the wrong crowds or teaching you right from wrong or showing you interesting stuff. I guess if one is looking for an excuse for their shitty upbringing, your parents are the first place to start, not society. Maybe if someone is a shitty parent we should be more aggressive about taking their kids away, instead of letting them reach maturity in their sorry state where it becomes increasingly harder and more expensive to get them back on their feet. Maybe people shouldn't be entitled to raising their kids automatically if they can't demonstrate they'll be a good parent. It may be the only way to solve the problem of poor and underemployed people breeding out of control and creating more poor and underemployed.
fineIllregister 8y ago
This assumes that poor people don't put in time, have valuable skills, make smart choices, or do complex work. It also assumes that they had the choices better than the position they have. There's also another assumption that the protections social safety nets completely eliminate incentive to put in effort. GP didn't say they moved to a nonexistant land where everyone is paid the exact same.
- slantyyz 8y ago
  > This assumes that poor people don't put in time, have valuable skills, make smart choices, or do complex work. This work can also be physically hard, and be dangerous.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  Bad luck is real, but after 30 years of experiences, there is a difference between hard workers and everyone else. As 'unfair' as we want to believe, over and over, I've seen hardworkers prevail.

cmsonger 8y ago

Someone else does not have to do badly for you to do better.

supermw 8y ago
As an individual I am hardly responsible for others doing badly.
- lghh 8y ago
  In a society that rewards hoarding the finite capital that exists, you sort of are.

TeMPOraL 8y ago

Most people didn't have the choice you did.

supermw 8y ago
My choices were nothing special: Pay attention in school, do my homework, get good grades, pick a meaningful hobby, don't drink or do drugs, don't beat up other kids for fun, read books, work in a retail store, stay away from drama, get into a decent college and choose a good major, do internships, network, pick up recommendations, get interviews at tech companies, get tech job, start paying debts, save and invest money, move and get better tech job, save and invest more money, pay more debts, keep learning new skills, get even better tech job, pay off debt, save and invest even MORE money, get promotion, save and invest TONS of money... by now you can see compounding effects are kicking in and not much can stop me. All this from a poor boy born in Raleigh.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  > My choices were nothing special: Pay attention in school, do my homework, get good grades, pick a meaningful hobby, don't drink or do drugs, don't beat up other kids for fun, read books, work in a retail store, stay away from drama I concede that the rest of this list is choices you made, but I wonder how much of the part I quoted can be attributed to actual, conscious choice on your part. Me personally, I'm in tech by pure luck. Because my mother let me watch Star Trek as a kid, because my father arranged for a PC in our house, because they gave me essentially unlimited and unsupervised time in front of it, and because I lucked out with education reform that transferred me out of the worst class in primary school to the best one in secondary school - only because of that, I picked up programming as a hobby. My job, my knowledge and my material situation are pretty much directly attributable to this. It wasn't my choice.
  - amanaplanacanal 8y ago
    A lot of people think that their success was entirely by their own efforts. I'm with you, there was a lot of luck involved. Things that contributed to my success that I had nothing to do with: I'm white. I was born in the US. I'm male. I have a reasonably high IQ. My parents were middle class. I was raised in a medium sized town on the west coast. I was interested in computers and an early adopter. I stumbled into jobs that let me use that interest and make a successful career out of it. Certainly I made some good decisions along the way, but in different circumstances I could have turned out completely differently.
  - supermw 8y ago
    A lot of those things are conscious choices... I suppose getting good grades is tough if you are not intelligent and were born with a bad brain, or paying attention might be tough if you had ADD. Some of it may just be a result of having decent parents that instill good values in you, like warning you about hanging with the wrong crowds or teaching you right from wrong or showing you interesting stuff. I guess if one is looking for an excuse for their shitty upbringing, your parents are the first place to start, not society. Maybe if someone is a shitty parent we should be more aggressive about taking their kids away, instead of letting them reach maturity in their sorry state where it becomes increasingly harder and more expensive to get them back on their feet. Maybe people shouldn't be entitled to raising their kids automatically if they can't demonstrate they'll be a good parent. It may be the only way to solve the problem of poor and underemployed people breeding out of control and creating more poor and underemployed.

fineIllregister 8y ago

This assumes that poor people don't put in time, have valuable skills, make smart choices, or do complex work. It also assumes that they had the choices better than the position they have. There's also another assumption that the protections social safety nets completely eliminate incentive to put in effort. GP didn't say they moved to a nonexistant land where everyone is paid the exact same.

slantyyz 8y ago
> This assumes that poor people don't put in time, have valuable skills, make smart choices, or do complex work. This work can also be physically hard, and be dangerous.
mkirklions 8y ago
Bad luck is real, but after 30 years of experiences, there is a difference between hard workers and everyone else. As 'unfair' as we want to believe, over and over, I've seen hardworkers prevail.