4 ms·

What if the jobs require higher IQs than 85? Suddenly we have 15% of the population entirely unemployable? Wealth redistribution is a choice of ethics. What i

What if the jobs require higher IQs than 85? Suddenly we have 15% of the population entirely unemployable? Wealth redistribution is a choice of ethics. What if we start to create better technologies that augment the economic usefulness of the lowest IQ people?

jedberg 8y ago
That's what the wealth redistribution is for. For the 15% that are unemployable.
- shard972 8y ago
  With the USA seeing a decline in IQ and the IQ bar raising for tech jobs, It seems that percentage is going to be growing a lot more into the future.
  - pkaye 8y ago
    Many people think IQ is meaningless and furthermore it is not used for hiring purposes.
    - shard972 8y ago
      Some people think germ theory is meaningless. So what?
      - twothumbsup 8y ago
        Germ theory has basis in science. IQ tests do not.
        shard972 8y ago
        So why does the US army use it to both screen out recruits but to identify who should be elevated into the officer core if it's not based in science? Why is it that IQ after all these years has the best correlation with many positive results such as academic ability and job success? I'm not even sure if this a troll to be honest so i would like a bit more an argument than "it's not science cause i say so".
- Domenic_S 8y ago
  Long but IMO worth the time to read: https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/09/how_to_be_mean_to_your_kids.html https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/09/how_to_be_mean_to_yo...
gotocake 8y ago
Wealth redistribution is a choice of ethics. If you study world history you’ll quickly realize that it’s ultimately the choice of the mob with the torches and pitchforks. You’d be amazed at how disinterested they are in moral relativism or a chat about Atlas Shrugged. Personally I’d prefer a more equitable redistribution based on planning, rather than a redistribution based on plutocrats being put up against a wall. What if we start to create better technologies that augment the economic usefulness of the lowest IQ people? They definitely won’t be amused at the cries of “But wait, I want my tech to add economic value to you, low IQ person! sound of a gun cocking Waaait! Haven’t you even heard of a meritocra- BANG”
- jedberg 8y ago
  I've had many a discussion about Atlas Shrugged, and in fact used to be an adherent to its philosophy. Until I realized something. For a pure Libertarian society to work, those who cannot work must die. If there is absolutely no social safety net, then if you are too sick to work, you can't make money and therefore can't get care and die. Sure, some will live through charity, but there would be far too many people who just can't make a net positive monetary contribution to society. What do those people do?
  - simplecomplex 8y ago
    Only in a culture that does not value family or charity, which all of history proves otherwise.
  - olleromam91 8y ago
    I think you said the answer right there. They die.
    - gotocake 8y ago
      Or they riot and rebel. The surest way to see how violent people can be is to offer them no choice in the matter. This is a country with a lot of guns, tons of space, and a poorly paid police and military. It’s not hard to imagine how the prospect of a quiet, ignominious death would go over. There are already militias and preppers, and I for one want those movements to do something other than flourish and expand.
Zigurd 8y ago
There are some indications that the bottom 15% of IQs will not become the STEM man's burden. Instead, AI will hit the fat underbelly of knowledge work, first, where people get paid more than the bottom 15%, to do the things that can be automated without interacting with real-world objects. The problem won't be robot shopping cart fetchers or grocery baggers, but that knowledge work, which is the last refuge of human usefulness in the workforce will get hollowed out from the lower-middle. There is no "next thing" after knowledge work. Optimistic characterizations like "post scarcity" don't seem like they will be applicable before mass disemployment hits. Instead of having to implement redistributive policies for the 15% outside the knowledge economy, we will be faced with a bigger, more educated cohort that can't be retrained to other knowledge work faster than AI will automate those categories. Shorter work-weeks will help. Perhaps for long enough to figure out a solution. Better start soon, though.
- kaybe 8y ago
  I think one more thing is left: emotional work.
chooseaname 8y ago
AR and VR. So many people love to talk about an augmented world, well, this would be the perfect place for it. You would use AR/VR to help lower IQ people be more productive and still be able to earn themselves a decent wage.
lkbm 8y ago
The good news is that we know some adjustments to make to education that would reduce that number. For example: > More children taking MVM [multivitamin with mineral] supplements (44) than placebo (25) showed increases in nonverbal IQ scores of 15 or more points (35% compared with 21%; P<.01). The authors speculate that this result may be attributable to the fact that one in 7 schoolchildren was undernourished.[0] The bad news is we won't do it. Implementing effective policy is the hard part.[1] [0] https://www.mdedge.com/pulmonary-health-hub/article/64803/asthma/multivitamins-healthy-children-what-are-true-benefits https://www.mdedge.com/pulmonary-health-hub/article/64803/as... [1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biology-is-mutable/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biolo...

jedberg 8y ago

That's what the wealth redistribution is for. For the 15% that are unemployable.

shard972 8y ago
With the USA seeing a decline in IQ and the IQ bar raising for tech jobs, It seems that percentage is going to be growing a lot more into the future.
- pkaye 8y ago
  Many people think IQ is meaningless and furthermore it is not used for hiring purposes.
  - shard972 8y ago
    Some people think germ theory is meaningless. So what?
    - twothumbsup 8y ago
      Germ theory has basis in science. IQ tests do not.
      - shard972 8y ago
        So why does the US army use it to both screen out recruits but to identify who should be elevated into the officer core if it's not based in science? Why is it that IQ after all these years has the best correlation with many positive results such as academic ability and job success? I'm not even sure if this a troll to be honest so i would like a bit more an argument than "it's not science cause i say so".
Domenic_S 8y ago
Long but IMO worth the time to read: https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/09/how_to_be_mean_to_your_kids.html https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/09/how_to_be_mean_to_yo...

gotocake 8y ago

Wealth redistribution is a choice of ethics. If you study world history you’ll quickly realize that it’s ultimately the choice of the mob with the torches and pitchforks. You’d be amazed at how disinterested they are in moral relativism or a chat about Atlas Shrugged. Personally I’d prefer a more equitable redistribution based on planning, rather than a redistribution based on plutocrats being put up against a wall. What if we start to create better technologies that augment the economic usefulness of the lowest IQ people? They definitely won’t be amused at the cries of “But wait, I want my tech to add economic value to you, low IQ person! sound of a gun cocking Waaait! Haven’t you even heard of a meritocra- BANG”

jedberg 8y ago
I've had many a discussion about Atlas Shrugged, and in fact used to be an adherent to its philosophy. Until I realized something. For a pure Libertarian society to work, those who cannot work must die. If there is absolutely no social safety net, then if you are too sick to work, you can't make money and therefore can't get care and die. Sure, some will live through charity, but there would be far too many people who just can't make a net positive monetary contribution to society. What do those people do?
- simplecomplex 8y ago
  Only in a culture that does not value family or charity, which all of history proves otherwise.
- olleromam91 8y ago
  I think you said the answer right there. They die.
  - gotocake 8y ago
    Or they riot and rebel. The surest way to see how violent people can be is to offer them no choice in the matter. This is a country with a lot of guns, tons of space, and a poorly paid police and military. It’s not hard to imagine how the prospect of a quiet, ignominious death would go over. There are already militias and preppers, and I for one want those movements to do something other than flourish and expand.

Zigurd 8y ago

There are some indications that the bottom 15% of IQs will not become the STEM man's burden. Instead, AI will hit the fat underbelly of knowledge work, first, where people get paid more than the bottom 15%, to do the things that can be automated without interacting with real-world objects. The problem won't be robot shopping cart fetchers or grocery baggers, but that knowledge work, which is the last refuge of human usefulness in the workforce will get hollowed out from the lower-middle. There is no "next thing" after knowledge work. Optimistic characterizations like "post scarcity" don't seem like they will be applicable before mass disemployment hits. Instead of having to implement redistributive policies for the 15% outside the knowledge economy, we will be faced with a bigger, more educated cohort that can't be retrained to other knowledge work faster than AI will automate those categories. Shorter work-weeks will help. Perhaps for long enough to figure out a solution. Better start soon, though.

kaybe 8y ago
I think one more thing is left: emotional work.

chooseaname 8y ago

AR and VR. So many people love to talk about an augmented world, well, this would be the perfect place for it. You would use AR/VR to help lower IQ people be more productive and still be able to earn themselves a decent wage.

lkbm 8y ago

The good news is that we know some adjustments to make to education that would reduce that number. For example: > More children taking MVM [multivitamin with mineral] supplements (44) than placebo (25) showed increases in nonverbal IQ scores of 15 or more points (35% compared with 21%; P<.01). The authors speculate that this result may be attributable to the fact that one in 7 schoolchildren was undernourished.[0] The bad news is we won't do it. Implementing effective policy is the hard part.[1] [0] https://www.mdedge.com/pulmonary-health-hub/article/64803/asthma/multivitamins-healthy-children-what-are-true-benefits https://www.mdedge.com/pulmonary-health-hub/article/64803/as... [1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biology-is-mutable/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biolo...