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Article leaves out the very real and very big catch: "Israel values its security, and pays for it. According to an analysis by Bloomberg News, Israel spends ar

by aresant 16y ago

Article leaves out the very real and very big catch: "Israel values its security, and pays for it. According to an analysis by Bloomberg News, Israel spends around 10 times more per passenger than the United States does." A little more on that: "[An analyst] estimated El Al's security bill at $100 million a year, which amounts to $76.92 per trip by its 1.3 million passengers. Half is paid by the Israeli government," Peter Robison wrote. The United States, in comparison, spent in 2008 $5.74 billion to monitor and protect 735,297,000 enplanements, or around $7.80 a passenger." The TSA system is a production line - hire cheap unskilled labor, and train around a process and manuals. In the USA the Israeli version would be very difficult in addition to very costly. That doesn't even take into account the question of the uproar the system would cause with the suggestion of racial profiling. References via: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aFyfihM1e3G4&refer=politics http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a... and http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/01/07/would_you_pay_25_for_71_seconds_of_scrutiny_in_an_airport http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/01/07/would_you_pay...

jbl 16y ago
The TSA system is a production line - hire cheap unskilled labor, and train around a process and manuals. This is the big thing that popped out at me from reading the article. The personnel described sound highly experienced and trained. I wonder how long and how much it would cost to bring your standard TSA screener up to that level.
- jambo 16y ago
  I think this is outside the realm of possibility for many current TSOs.
- anigbrowl 16y ago
  Don't forget that Israel has conscription, requiring 2 or 3 years of military service for all Israelis over 18. Given Israel's somewhat unique security situation this policy is likely more of an asset than a waste, but it's not obvious that it could be successfully generalized to larger or more diverse countries, where the benefits to the state might conflict more sharply with individual freedoms.
- SkyMarshal 16y ago
  It sounds from the article that the Israeli airport security personal are all ex-IDF. It's a job they naturally matriculate into after serving their required 2yrs in the IDF. I am not an expert, but I imagine that given the primary mission of the IDF in dealing with Palestine, they probably receive training and some experience (depending on where they are assigned) in how to spot potential terrorists using behavioral profiling. So when they leave and join airport security, they hit the ground running. US soldiers on the other hand probably aren't given much behavioral profiling training. We seem to specialize in blowing stuff up, steamrolling it with tanks, then randomly throwing money at it afterwards. If any military or ex-military know differently, please correct me. Gen. Petraeus may be slowly improving that SOP, in Iraq and Afghanistan at least, but I'm not sure how much his work there is getting rebased to general boot camp and officer training programs. Eg, are these kinds of soft skills percolating throughout the US military, or are only the Special Forces and other groups specifically tasked with winning hearts and minds in Afghanistan getting this training? So the question remains, would filling the TSA ranks with military veterans and paying them higher wages provide a more Israeli-like airport security force? Dunno. Certainly worth considering, but there are some significant differences.
  - tjmc 16y ago
    There is definitely soft skills training in the US military. This was an interesting read: http://www.amazon.com/Interrogators-War-Breaking-Al-Qaeda-Afghanistan/dp/0719566207 http://www.amazon.com/Interrogators-War-Breaking-Al-Qaeda-Af... It's a military interrogator's account of the techniques used in Afghanistan.
  - RyanMcGreal 16y ago
    >It sounds from the article that the Israeli airport security personal are all ex-IDF. Every Israeli adult is ex-IDF, except for those adults who are still in the IDF.
    - wheels 16y ago
      Not true. About a quarter of men and a third of women do not enlist: http://www.haaretz.com/news/idf-nearly-28-of-israeli-males-avoided-conscription-in-2007-1.232645 http://www.haaretz.com/news/idf-nearly-28-of-israeli-males-a...
epo 16y ago
The other thing it omits is the difference in treatment between Arabs and non-Arabs. Profiling is inevitable. If you don't know who is threatening you and pay special attention to those people then you are a fool. But most of those people aren't threatening you and will feel aggrieved, this is how resentments grow and fester. EDIT choosing who you pay attention to is obviously key, casting your net too widely is what ticks people off. These are not easy problems to solve without removing the cause of the discontent which is making people threaten you in the first place.
credo 16y ago
I disagree on both counts. 1. Costs: I think the value of preventing a terrorist attack greatly outweighs the $76/passenger cost of screening. Besides, it contributes a lot of value to the economy by (a) reducing the long lines we have in our airports today and (b) eliminating the unnecessary intrusive procedures 2. Racial profiling: Behavioral profiling is not the same as racial profiling. Besides do you really think that the low-paid unskilled TSA workers don't currently do any racial profiling ?
- nodata 16y ago
  Can I ask how are you comparing costs here? 76 dollars per passenger is an obscene amount of money: look at the dollar totals. In terms of lives saved, the TSA is already a gigantic waste of money. You could save a lot more lives per dollar by doing hundreds of other different things.
  - alex_c 16y ago
    $77 per passenger is a huge amount, especially compared to the cost of a cheap domestic flight. But what is the hidden cost of the clusterfuck that American airports are becoming? I would gladly pay an extra $38 per flight if it meant going through a sane, competent, and, if not pleasant, at least not overtly hostile system.
    - harisenbon 16y ago
      Why not even make it opt in? Ticket price plus a 38 dollar "treat me like a human being" tax. I'd pay it.
      - aberkowitz 16y ago
        What has it come to when we have to pay more, just to be treated as humans?
        chopsueyar 16y ago
DanI-S 16y ago
Economy of scale? Israel has far fewer people, far fewer flights and far fewer airports than the US.
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  It may not work that way though. This reminds me of mom-and-pop restaurant (Israel) vs. chain (USA)- the chain, while benefiting from economy of scale, can never manage to retain the mom-and-pop feel and quality.
- clr 16y ago
  The security is also in place in a modified fashion at flights returning to Israel from other countries. They hire and train and house their security overseas - another reason the job is so attractive to young people.
yummyfajitas 16y ago
That probably underestimates what it would cost us to have Israeli style security. In the US, we would need to pay market rates for airport security personnel. In Israel, they can pay far less since much of Israel's domestic security is provided by forced labor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription#Countries_with_and_without_mandatory_military_service http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription#Countries_with_and...
- endtime 16y ago
  I don't think airport security officials in Israel are doing their national service stint, though I could be wrong.
  - beagle3 16y ago
    You are not wrong.
- ars 16y ago
  Uh, soldiers are paid. And airport security work is not by soldiers anyway, it's regular employment.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    Forced labor wages < market wages. If they were not, there would be no need for forced labor. As for airport security not being done by soldiers, my mistake. I only visited Israel once, but I was under the impression the airport guys were IDF. I guess I'm misremembering the uniforms. Thanks for the correction.
    - jbooth 16y ago
      It's only sort of forced -- conscription is there for cultural reasons, not out of necessity. From what I understand (which could be wrong), pretty much anyone can get out of the army there if they want. But people like the symbolism of "everyone serves". Certainly it doesn't behave according to standard "market" rules though, even in a situation where they abolished the "forced" part and left it to culture to enforce service from 18-21.
Lagged2Death 16y ago
If you were a member of Congress or a lobbyist for a security equipment manufacturer, you'd see high costs as a benefit, not a problem. As long as the cost would result in profits for a (relative) few. I think our government would gladly pay Israeli-level security costs - if it could spend it on machinery made in the USA, rather than on salaries and training. It sounds to me like the Israelis are the ones that have a process and who are devoted to their manuals. Every horror story we hear about the TSA seems to involve TSA agents not having a clue how to behave like civilized people, let alone effective security officers, in even the most mundane situations.
bigiain 16y ago
"Israel values its security, and pays for it. According to an analysis by Bloomberg News, Israel spends around 10 times more per passenger than the United States does." I'll bet those numbers change if you include the cost of a pair of world trade center towers and the associated expenses of that incident. "Cheap and ineffective" != "inexpensive"
- amalcon 16y ago
  More comprehensive pre-flight screening could not have stopped the Sept. 11 attacks, because they did not involve sneaking contraband onto the plane. The cardboard box cutters that were used in the attack were allowed at the time.
  - __david__ 16y ago
    Yeah but the Israeli style behavioural profiling very well might have flushed their intentions out.
    - BrandonM 16y ago
      Exactly. This is a perfect argument for the Israeli style of behavioral profiling as opposed to the American style of trying to imagine every possible way to hijack a plane.
    - amalcon 16y ago
      It might have, but surely not to the level of certainty that your GP suggested.
  - shimfish 16y ago
    That's why, apart from pre-flight screening, they have a policy of having plainclothes air marshals on every flight and locking the cabin door.
jemfinch 16y ago
"To be fair, this compares per-passenger costs for El Al, Israel's national carrier, to the costs for the TSA, the U.S. agency responsible for air safety. Ideally, we'd want to compare the airport security costs for Shin Bet, a Israeli security agency." I think it's a bit disingenuous to quote the previous statement without this one.

by aresant 16y ago

jbl 16y ago

The TSA system is a production line - hire cheap unskilled labor, and train around a process and manuals. This is the big thing that popped out at me from reading the article. The personnel described sound highly experienced and trained. I wonder how long and how much it would cost to bring your standard TSA screener up to that level.

jambo 16y ago
I think this is outside the realm of possibility for many current TSOs.
anigbrowl 16y ago
Don't forget that Israel has conscription, requiring 2 or 3 years of military service for all Israelis over 18. Given Israel's somewhat unique security situation this policy is likely more of an asset than a waste, but it's not obvious that it could be successfully generalized to larger or more diverse countries, where the benefits to the state might conflict more sharply with individual freedoms.
SkyMarshal 16y ago
It sounds from the article that the Israeli airport security personal are all ex-IDF. It's a job they naturally matriculate into after serving their required 2yrs in the IDF. I am not an expert, but I imagine that given the primary mission of the IDF in dealing with Palestine, they probably receive training and some experience (depending on where they are assigned) in how to spot potential terrorists using behavioral profiling. So when they leave and join airport security, they hit the ground running. US soldiers on the other hand probably aren't given much behavioral profiling training. We seem to specialize in blowing stuff up, steamrolling it with tanks, then randomly throwing money at it afterwards. If any military or ex-military know differently, please correct me. Gen. Petraeus may be slowly improving that SOP, in Iraq and Afghanistan at least, but I'm not sure how much his work there is getting rebased to general boot camp and officer training programs. Eg, are these kinds of soft skills percolating throughout the US military, or are only the Special Forces and other groups specifically tasked with winning hearts and minds in Afghanistan getting this training? So the question remains, would filling the TSA ranks with military veterans and paying them higher wages provide a more Israeli-like airport security force? Dunno. Certainly worth considering, but there are some significant differences.
- tjmc 16y ago
  There is definitely soft skills training in the US military. This was an interesting read: http://www.amazon.com/Interrogators-War-Breaking-Al-Qaeda-Afghanistan/dp/0719566207 http://www.amazon.com/Interrogators-War-Breaking-Al-Qaeda-Af... It's a military interrogator's account of the techniques used in Afghanistan.
- RyanMcGreal 16y ago
  >It sounds from the article that the Israeli airport security personal are all ex-IDF. Every Israeli adult is ex-IDF, except for those adults who are still in the IDF.
  - wheels 16y ago
    Not true. About a quarter of men and a third of women do not enlist: http://www.haaretz.com/news/idf-nearly-28-of-israeli-males-avoided-conscription-in-2007-1.232645 http://www.haaretz.com/news/idf-nearly-28-of-israeli-males-a...

epo 16y ago

The other thing it omits is the difference in treatment between Arabs and non-Arabs. Profiling is inevitable. If you don't know who is threatening you and pay special attention to those people then you are a fool. But most of those people aren't threatening you and will feel aggrieved, this is how resentments grow and fester. EDIT choosing who you pay attention to is obviously key, casting your net too widely is what ticks people off. These are not easy problems to solve without removing the cause of the discontent which is making people threaten you in the first place.

credo 16y ago

I disagree on both counts. 1. Costs: I think the value of preventing a terrorist attack greatly outweighs the $76/passenger cost of screening. Besides, it contributes a lot of value to the economy by (a) reducing the long lines we have in our airports today and (b) eliminating the unnecessary intrusive procedures 2. Racial profiling: Behavioral profiling is not the same as racial profiling. Besides do you really think that the low-paid unskilled TSA workers don't currently do any racial profiling ?

nodata 16y ago
Can I ask how are you comparing costs here? 76 dollars per passenger is an obscene amount of money: look at the dollar totals. In terms of lives saved, the TSA is already a gigantic waste of money. You could save a lot more lives per dollar by doing hundreds of other different things.
- alex_c 16y ago
  $77 per passenger is a huge amount, especially compared to the cost of a cheap domestic flight. But what is the hidden cost of the clusterfuck that American airports are becoming? I would gladly pay an extra $38 per flight if it meant going through a sane, competent, and, if not pleasant, at least not overtly hostile system.
  - harisenbon 16y ago
    Why not even make it opt in? Ticket price plus a 38 dollar "treat me like a human being" tax. I'd pay it.
    - aberkowitz 16y ago
      What has it come to when we have to pay more, just to be treated as humans?
      - chopsueyar 16y ago

DanI-S 16y ago

Economy of scale? Israel has far fewer people, far fewer flights and far fewer airports than the US.

sliverstorm 16y ago
It may not work that way though. This reminds me of mom-and-pop restaurant (Israel) vs. chain (USA)- the chain, while benefiting from economy of scale, can never manage to retain the mom-and-pop feel and quality.
clr 16y ago
The security is also in place in a modified fashion at flights returning to Israel from other countries. They hire and train and house their security overseas - another reason the job is so attractive to young people.

yummyfajitas 16y ago

That probably underestimates what it would cost us to have Israeli style security. In the US, we would need to pay market rates for airport security personnel. In Israel, they can pay far less since much of Israel's domestic security is provided by forced labor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription#Countries_with_and_without_mandatory_military_service http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription#Countries_with_and...

endtime 16y ago
I don't think airport security officials in Israel are doing their national service stint, though I could be wrong.
- beagle3 16y ago
  You are not wrong.
ars 16y ago
Uh, soldiers are paid. And airport security work is not by soldiers anyway, it's regular employment.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Forced labor wages < market wages. If they were not, there would be no need for forced labor. As for airport security not being done by soldiers, my mistake. I only visited Israel once, but I was under the impression the airport guys were IDF. I guess I'm misremembering the uniforms. Thanks for the correction.
  - jbooth 16y ago
    It's only sort of forced -- conscription is there for cultural reasons, not out of necessity. From what I understand (which could be wrong), pretty much anyone can get out of the army there if they want. But people like the symbolism of "everyone serves". Certainly it doesn't behave according to standard "market" rules though, even in a situation where they abolished the "forced" part and left it to culture to enforce service from 18-21.

Lagged2Death 16y ago

If you were a member of Congress or a lobbyist for a security equipment manufacturer, you'd see high costs as a benefit, not a problem. As long as the cost would result in profits for a (relative) few. I think our government would gladly pay Israeli-level security costs - if it could spend it on machinery made in the USA, rather than on salaries and training. It sounds to me like the Israelis are the ones that have a process and who are devoted to their manuals. Every horror story we hear about the TSA seems to involve TSA agents not having a clue how to behave like civilized people, let alone effective security officers, in even the most mundane situations.

bigiain 16y ago

"Israel values its security, and pays for it. According to an analysis by Bloomberg News, Israel spends around 10 times more per passenger than the United States does." I'll bet those numbers change if you include the cost of a pair of world trade center towers and the associated expenses of that incident. "Cheap and ineffective" != "inexpensive"

amalcon 16y ago
More comprehensive pre-flight screening could not have stopped the Sept. 11 attacks, because they did not involve sneaking contraband onto the plane. The cardboard box cutters that were used in the attack were allowed at the time.
- __david__ 16y ago
  Yeah but the Israeli style behavioural profiling very well might have flushed their intentions out.
  - BrandonM 16y ago
    Exactly. This is a perfect argument for the Israeli style of behavioral profiling as opposed to the American style of trying to imagine every possible way to hijack a plane.
  - amalcon 16y ago
    It might have, but surely not to the level of certainty that your GP suggested.
- shimfish 16y ago
  That's why, apart from pre-flight screening, they have a policy of having plainclothes air marshals on every flight and locking the cabin door.

jemfinch 16y ago

"To be fair, this compares per-passenger costs for El Al, Israel's national carrier, to the costs for the TSA, the U.S. agency responsible for air safety. Ideally, we'd want to compare the airport security costs for Shin Bet, a Israeli security agency." I think it's a bit disingenuous to quote the previous statement without this one.