10 ms·

I just don't get it. a John Deere Gator with two seats and 4 wheels, and not much else costs over $7000 new. No windows, No airbags, pathetic top speed, not roa

I just don't get it. a John Deere Gator with two seats and 4 wheels, and not much else costs over $7000 new. No windows, No airbags, pathetic top speed, not road legal. A Lada 4x4 costs less than that brand new in Russia. Road legal, standard car top speed. Known as a very reliable car. Why can't I buy a really cheap car in the United States? edit: also the lada 4x4 is possibly the coolest car i've ever seen, in it's own unique way. I would do anything to import one, but it's not legal.

VectorLock 8y ago
Whats the crash testing like on that Lada 4x4?
- ngngngng 8y ago
  I don't know, I assume it's better than the more expensive open air golf cart that i'm comparing to though. edit: What i'm trying to say is, why is a fully functional car (even with bad crash safety and emissions) cheaper outside the United States than a golf cart is here? The answer seems obvious to me. Making it illegal to import cars has stifled competition and hurt consumers in the US.
  - mason55 8y ago
    But if it's not good enough to pass US crash testing then it's pointless to release here. No one wants a golf cart that looks like a car.
  - winrid 8y ago
    Because the quality is much lower. The tractor is meant to be used near capacity for thousands of hours. Lada not so much. Lada is known to rust easily, John Deer is known for quality... Also, you are comparing two different spectrums. Maybe compare against very good farm equipment in Russia?
    - samplatt 8y ago
      I'm seeing a lot of "John Deer == Quality" comments in this thread. My farming background says "John Deer == artificially (and insanely) expensive maintenance". I've always equated JD with just being one of the biggest players, not necessarily a reflection of good quality.
      - grzm 8y ago
        That said, we had no issues with the John Deere trackers we had. Same with IH, for that matter.
        jessaustin 8y ago
        ...no issues... You've been fortunate with your tractors. IME, even "quality" brands like Deere and IH often have infuriating issues for which one eventually learns to compensate. It's good to talk to a few people before buying anything. My dad has a guy he always calls who owns a tractor auction, and can be trusted to tell the truth about different models. Ceteris paribus, I would just get a Kubota.
  - stemc43 8y ago
    politics. US car market is protectionist in nature.
    - linksnapzz 8y ago
      Yes, the domestic automakers are terrified that someone will begin importing a new vehicle that is nearly competitive with a 1979 AMC Eagle. Clearly, a protective tariff is what's called for, to prevent the US auto industry from being overwhelmed by the makers of Soviet 4x4s and chest-freezer sized Japanese cargo vans.
  - ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
    That's assuming they travel the same speed. Because Lada 4x4 has a much higher top speed it is has the potential for much more serious accidents.
- abrowne 8y ago
  From Wikipedia: In 2002 the Lada Niva was awarded zero stars out of a possible four by the modern Russian ARCAP safety assessment program.
- dragandj 8y ago
  Lada Niva is quite robust. I guess that it will crash whatever it hits. The same will happens to the humans inside. The car itself does not break easily :)
madengr 8y ago
That is cool looking. Reminds me of a jacked up, 80's VW Rabbit.
MrRadar 8y ago
"Road legal" has a different standard in the US. To sell a car in the US it must have airbags, ABS, electronic stability control, a backup camera (also implying a decently-large full-color display on the dashboard), and it must meet USDOT, NHTSA, and EPA standards (each of which are slightly incompatible with standards from other regions, and intentionally so as a soft trade barrier). I'm guessing that the Lada 4x4 would be too close to a "real" car to be sold as a "not-car" offroad-only vehicle but would require too many changes to be sold cost-effectively as a "real" car in the US.
- gamegoblin 8y ago
  FWIW if the car is >= 25 years old, most of these regulations go away. I have a 1990 Subaru Sambar pickup truck [1] imported from Japan that is street legal and registered in Washington state. It’s probably only a tiny bit safer than a motorcycle because it has seatbelts. Maybe cancelled out by the fact that I don’t wear a helmet while driving it. You can get them for $3K - 5K depending on condition and they are excellent little city trucks that get fantastic fuel economy. Getting used to the right-side drive and shifting left handed wasn’t so bad. The hard part is the blinkers and windshield wipers are swapped! [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Sambar#/media/File%3ASubaru_Sambar_Truck_5th_Generation_001.JPG https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Sambar#/media/File%3A...
  - jamessantiago 8y ago
    You just rekindled my long time desire to own one of these. I saw them all over the place in okinawa and I have a die-cast toy car of one somewhere around here. I remember there was someone who put that longhorn decoration you see as a texas cliche on one. They definitely are pretty neat. It would be great for hauling landscaping items from my local nursery without having to get a full sized truck.
    - ngngngng 8y ago
      I'm with you, I've always admired the teeny utility trucks I see when I travel in China. It never occurred to me I could just import one thats >25 years old.
onetimemanytime 8y ago
>>A Lada 4x4 costs less than that brand new in Russia. Road legal, standard car top speed. Known as a very reliable car. Why can't I buy a really cheap car in the United States? Average Russian's buying power vs US one. Plus, USA demands a lot more, and it can afford it. If your family dies in the car crash anyone from the tire to the glass maker will be sued.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
pcurve 8y ago
https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/ https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/ You're right about John Deere Gator being overpriced. If mass produced, there's no reason why Chinese (or others) can't build something of comparable quality for $3k.
- HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
  The Gator isn't really overpriced: it's a low-volume vehicle and the price reflects that. The low-end Chinese-branded UTVs don't cost much less (I'm pretty sure the Gator, despite the JD badge, is made in China).
  - wil421 8y ago
    It’s made in Wisconsin likely from a host of Chinese made parts.[1] [1]https://www.reliableplant.com/Read/26725/John-Deere-plant-Gator https://www.reliableplant.com/Read/26725/John-Deere-plant-Ga...
dv_dt 8y ago
With the Deere Gator, you're paying a bit more for quality, and more for brand recognition. There are very likely competitors in this same category that have both lower prices and less famous names. Sometimes higher prices for better quality is good, or at least ok overall.
vbezhenar 8y ago
Lada 4x4 is an extremely outdated car. They are started to manufacture in 1977 and did not change much since then. Only engine was upgraded to conform to modern ecology standards. Crash test is terrible, it's probably worst car in the world in that aspect. Also it's extremely unreliable car. That car makes sense in some areas of Russia (or similar countries). While it's unreliable, usually it's easy to repair and spare parts are very cheap, so for some people it's not a big problem. With its 4x4 drive, excellent geometry and low weight you can drive over very bad terrain and that's important in some rural areas in Russia. And of course it's dirt cheap, so for low income buyers it's much more practical choice than spend 5x money on some brand. I have no idea about US, but honestly I don't think that many of those advantages would apply there. Also I've certainly saw those cars in US, you probably can find one in second hand market. It might be called Niva.
- vram22 8y ago
  >It might be called Niva. Yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada_Niva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada_Niva
- lstodd 8y ago
  Having driven both I must say while the 2121 (the USSR Niva) has great nostagic appeal, the Chevy Niva (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Niva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Niva) is quite a bit more comfortable. Still the same problems with reliability, since it's just a new body on old everything else. Edit: all in all, I prefer a diesel Hilux and/or suitably old Landcruiser for the offroad duties. Going anywhere on a highway is a pain in either Niva.
  - voidmain0001 8y ago
    Mmm...I dream of bringing a diesel quad cab Toyota Hilux or a Hiace from Central America up to Canada. The Hiace is the coolest minibus. Heck, I would even take a Ford Ranger quad cab diesel.
emptyfile 8y ago
Well I'm googling it, but no I'm pretty sure you can't buy a new Lada 4x4 for less than 7000 $. On the other hand in Europe you can buy a new Dacia Sandero for under 7000 euros. It comes with power steering, front electronic windows, heating, airbags and 4/5 safety rating.
- dragandj 8y ago
  I doubt that Dacia Sandero can compare to Lada Niva when it comes to off-road performance, though.
- dvlat 8y ago
  Well, depends on location. In Russia you can buy it for ~6550 (quickly checked the prices of one of the dealers).
KorematsuFred 8y ago
Few reasons : 1. Higher government regulations. This includes safety as well as emission regulations. 2. Actual implementation of those regulations. In many countries as I know regulations are routinely ignored and bribes are paid to keep quiet. 3. Contrary to what others might tell you American cars tend to be far more robust than most other countries. This is because Americans drive more and over longer distances and far too often. 4. There is no market for cheap cars in USA. That Lada 4x4 will not sell in USA at all with its mere 1.6L engine and 90 Mph max speed. Of course if Lada had to slightly rebrand and market its car as "non-road vehicle" they might sell for the $7000k. Mahindra from India did the same and they have been selling their mini jeep for <$10k.
- jointhefuture 8y ago
  Could it also be the USA system of dealers having to be 3rd party my law and therefore needing to mark up the price for their profit vs other markets where car companies run their own storefronts?
cr0sh 8y ago
This is the vehicle that I wish could get funded, and then be purchasable in the United States - but I doubt that will ever happen: http://oxgvt.com/ http://oxgvt.com/ The only vehicle I'd like to own more than that one is a re-release of the M274 Mule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M274_%C2%BD-ton_4%C3%974_utility_platform_truck https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M274_%C2%BD-ton_4%C3%974_utili...
- orbital-decay 8y ago
  >The only vehicle I'd like to own more than that one is a re-release of the M274 Mule Ah, the military golf cart. I'm sure you can get a used one? Also you might be interested in its direct Soviet counterpart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LuAZ-967 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LuAZ-967 (or the civilian variants like 1302)
- camtarn 8y ago
  For the Mule: "The driver's seat could be removed and the steering column moved forward and the vehicle driven in reverse to accommodate more cargo. If under fire the steering column could be moved farther forward and down, so the operator could operate the vehicle while crawling behind it." That's a really cool bit of design! The minimalist make-do-with-what-you've-got philosophy is so different from today's ways of designing military gear.
willart4food 8y ago
Because MAGA!

VectorLock 8y ago

Whats the crash testing like on that Lada 4x4?

ngngngng 8y ago
I don't know, I assume it's better than the more expensive open air golf cart that i'm comparing to though. edit: What i'm trying to say is, why is a fully functional car (even with bad crash safety and emissions) cheaper outside the United States than a golf cart is here? The answer seems obvious to me. Making it illegal to import cars has stifled competition and hurt consumers in the US.
- mason55 8y ago
  But if it's not good enough to pass US crash testing then it's pointless to release here. No one wants a golf cart that looks like a car.
- winrid 8y ago
  Because the quality is much lower. The tractor is meant to be used near capacity for thousands of hours. Lada not so much. Lada is known to rust easily, John Deer is known for quality... Also, you are comparing two different spectrums. Maybe compare against very good farm equipment in Russia?
  - samplatt 8y ago
    I'm seeing a lot of "John Deer == Quality" comments in this thread. My farming background says "John Deer == artificially (and insanely) expensive maintenance". I've always equated JD with just being one of the biggest players, not necessarily a reflection of good quality.
    - grzm 8y ago
      That said, we had no issues with the John Deere trackers we had. Same with IH, for that matter.
      - jessaustin 8y ago
        ...no issues... You've been fortunate with your tractors. IME, even "quality" brands like Deere and IH often have infuriating issues for which one eventually learns to compensate. It's good to talk to a few people before buying anything. My dad has a guy he always calls who owns a tractor auction, and can be trusted to tell the truth about different models. Ceteris paribus, I would just get a Kubota.
- stemc43 8y ago
  politics. US car market is protectionist in nature.
  - linksnapzz 8y ago
    Yes, the domestic automakers are terrified that someone will begin importing a new vehicle that is nearly competitive with a 1979 AMC Eagle. Clearly, a protective tariff is what's called for, to prevent the US auto industry from being overwhelmed by the makers of Soviet 4x4s and chest-freezer sized Japanese cargo vans.
- ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
  That's assuming they travel the same speed. Because Lada 4x4 has a much higher top speed it is has the potential for much more serious accidents.
abrowne 8y ago
From Wikipedia: In 2002 the Lada Niva was awarded zero stars out of a possible four by the modern Russian ARCAP safety assessment program.
dragandj 8y ago
Lada Niva is quite robust. I guess that it will crash whatever it hits. The same will happens to the humans inside. The car itself does not break easily :)

madengr 8y ago

That is cool looking. Reminds me of a jacked up, 80's VW Rabbit.

MrRadar 8y ago

"Road legal" has a different standard in the US. To sell a car in the US it must have airbags, ABS, electronic stability control, a backup camera (also implying a decently-large full-color display on the dashboard), and it must meet USDOT, NHTSA, and EPA standards (each of which are slightly incompatible with standards from other regions, and intentionally so as a soft trade barrier). I'm guessing that the Lada 4x4 would be too close to a "real" car to be sold as a "not-car" offroad-only vehicle but would require too many changes to be sold cost-effectively as a "real" car in the US.

gamegoblin 8y ago
FWIW if the car is >= 25 years old, most of these regulations go away. I have a 1990 Subaru Sambar pickup truck [1] imported from Japan that is street legal and registered in Washington state. It’s probably only a tiny bit safer than a motorcycle because it has seatbelts. Maybe cancelled out by the fact that I don’t wear a helmet while driving it. You can get them for $3K - 5K depending on condition and they are excellent little city trucks that get fantastic fuel economy. Getting used to the right-side drive and shifting left handed wasn’t so bad. The hard part is the blinkers and windshield wipers are swapped! [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Sambar#/media/File%3ASubaru_Sambar_Truck_5th_Generation_001.JPG https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Sambar#/media/File%3A...
- jamessantiago 8y ago
  You just rekindled my long time desire to own one of these. I saw them all over the place in okinawa and I have a die-cast toy car of one somewhere around here. I remember there was someone who put that longhorn decoration you see as a texas cliche on one. They definitely are pretty neat. It would be great for hauling landscaping items from my local nursery without having to get a full sized truck.
  - ngngngng 8y ago
    I'm with you, I've always admired the teeny utility trucks I see when I travel in China. It never occurred to me I could just import one thats >25 years old.

onetimemanytime 8y ago

>>A Lada 4x4 costs less than that brand new in Russia. Road legal, standard car top speed. Known as a very reliable car. Why can't I buy a really cheap car in the United States? Average Russian's buying power vs US one. Plus, USA demands a lot more, and it can afford it. If your family dies in the car crash anyone from the tire to the glass maker will be sued.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

pcurve 8y ago

https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/ https://www.deere.com/en/gator-utility-vehicles/ You're right about John Deere Gator being overpriced. If mass produced, there's no reason why Chinese (or others) can't build something of comparable quality for $3k.

HeyLaughingBoy 8y ago
The Gator isn't really overpriced: it's a low-volume vehicle and the price reflects that. The low-end Chinese-branded UTVs don't cost much less (I'm pretty sure the Gator, despite the JD badge, is made in China).
- wil421 8y ago
  It’s made in Wisconsin likely from a host of Chinese made parts.[1] [1]https://www.reliableplant.com/Read/26725/John-Deere-plant-Gator https://www.reliableplant.com/Read/26725/John-Deere-plant-Ga...

dv_dt 8y ago

With the Deere Gator, you're paying a bit more for quality, and more for brand recognition. There are very likely competitors in this same category that have both lower prices and less famous names. Sometimes higher prices for better quality is good, or at least ok overall.

vbezhenar 8y ago

Lada 4x4 is an extremely outdated car. They are started to manufacture in 1977 and did not change much since then. Only engine was upgraded to conform to modern ecology standards. Crash test is terrible, it's probably worst car in the world in that aspect. Also it's extremely unreliable car. That car makes sense in some areas of Russia (or similar countries). While it's unreliable, usually it's easy to repair and spare parts are very cheap, so for some people it's not a big problem. With its 4x4 drive, excellent geometry and low weight you can drive over very bad terrain and that's important in some rural areas in Russia. And of course it's dirt cheap, so for low income buyers it's much more practical choice than spend 5x money on some brand. I have no idea about US, but honestly I don't think that many of those advantages would apply there. Also I've certainly saw those cars in US, you probably can find one in second hand market. It might be called Niva.

vram22 8y ago
>It might be called Niva. Yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada_Niva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada_Niva
lstodd 8y ago
Having driven both I must say while the 2121 (the USSR Niva) has great nostagic appeal, the Chevy Niva (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Niva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Niva) is quite a bit more comfortable. Still the same problems with reliability, since it's just a new body on old everything else. Edit: all in all, I prefer a diesel Hilux and/or suitably old Landcruiser for the offroad duties. Going anywhere on a highway is a pain in either Niva.
- voidmain0001 8y ago
  Mmm...I dream of bringing a diesel quad cab Toyota Hilux or a Hiace from Central America up to Canada. The Hiace is the coolest minibus. Heck, I would even take a Ford Ranger quad cab diesel.

emptyfile 8y ago

Well I'm googling it, but no I'm pretty sure you can't buy a new Lada 4x4 for less than 7000 $. On the other hand in Europe you can buy a new Dacia Sandero for under 7000 euros. It comes with power steering, front electronic windows, heating, airbags and 4/5 safety rating.

dragandj 8y ago
I doubt that Dacia Sandero can compare to Lada Niva when it comes to off-road performance, though.
dvlat 8y ago
Well, depends on location. In Russia you can buy it for ~6550 (quickly checked the prices of one of the dealers).

KorematsuFred 8y ago

Few reasons : 1. Higher government regulations. This includes safety as well as emission regulations. 2. Actual implementation of those regulations. In many countries as I know regulations are routinely ignored and bribes are paid to keep quiet. 3. Contrary to what others might tell you American cars tend to be far more robust than most other countries. This is because Americans drive more and over longer distances and far too often. 4. There is no market for cheap cars in USA. That Lada 4x4 will not sell in USA at all with its mere 1.6L engine and 90 Mph max speed. Of course if Lada had to slightly rebrand and market its car as "non-road vehicle" they might sell for the $7000k. Mahindra from India did the same and they have been selling their mini jeep for <$10k.

jointhefuture 8y ago
Could it also be the USA system of dealers having to be 3rd party my law and therefore needing to mark up the price for their profit vs other markets where car companies run their own storefronts?

cr0sh 8y ago

This is the vehicle that I wish could get funded, and then be purchasable in the United States - but I doubt that will ever happen: http://oxgvt.com/ http://oxgvt.com/ The only vehicle I'd like to own more than that one is a re-release of the M274 Mule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M274_%C2%BD-ton_4%C3%974_utility_platform_truck https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M274_%C2%BD-ton_4%C3%974_utili...

orbital-decay 8y ago
>The only vehicle I'd like to own more than that one is a re-release of the M274 Mule Ah, the military golf cart. I'm sure you can get a used one? Also you might be interested in its direct Soviet counterpart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LuAZ-967 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LuAZ-967 (or the civilian variants like 1302)
camtarn 8y ago
For the Mule: "The driver's seat could be removed and the steering column moved forward and the vehicle driven in reverse to accommodate more cargo. If under fire the steering column could be moved farther forward and down, so the operator could operate the vehicle while crawling behind it." That's a really cool bit of design! The minimalist make-do-with-what-you've-got philosophy is so different from today's ways of designing military gear.

willart4food 8y ago

Because MAGA!