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> Beijing has been developing a nationwide facial recognition system using surveillance cameras capable of identifying any person, anywhere, around the clock wi

> Beijing has been developing a nationwide facial recognition system using surveillance cameras capable of identifying any person, anywhere, around the clock within seconds. So before all the privacy activists are up in arms, this is pretty incredible and it looks like they're getting pretty close to eliminating all violent crime. I think that's an incredible achievement if they can pull it off. In an even broader historical context, individualism and capitalism have had their run for 100+ years, maybe this is the rise of a new ideological movement.

georgyo 8y ago
"There is no murder in paradise."
Waterluvian 8y ago
One good reason for having many countries is we can run lots of different experiments on how to govern. Totally ignoring all the humans rights fears, this sure is fascinating.
- randall 8y ago
  I mean that's the thing, China is going to implement it, we get to see what happens, and I don't think there's much we can do to stop it. I'm interested in seeing how historians look at this period of human history since it will theoretically be so objectively (? maybe? At least plentifully.) documented.
  - yters 8y ago
    If there is one thing the Chinese government is known for, it is objectively documenting everything it does and making such records available to all.
    - chrischen 8y ago
      Either it's documented and the opposition can make educated criticisms, or it's not documented and the oppositions is politically motivated. You can't have both.
    - selimthegrim 8y ago
      Uh, by records do you mean terra cotta soldiers?
Myrth 8y ago
Watch "Person of Interest" show
yters 8y ago
Since nothing a government does is a crime, by definition, then by consolidating all crimes, violent and otherwise, to the government then we have eliminated all evil! Brilliant!
lettergram 8y ago
> eliminating all violent crime You mean, if it’s real and even if it does work that well, besides the state sponsored kind? China has millions of people in internment and retraining camps... Regarding your “new ideological movement” comment. It’s not really... we saw the same ideology (to a less effective level) in all dictatorships and communist countries. Secret police, thought police, etc.
- chrischen 8y ago
  We have millions of black people incarcerated, the result of systematic discrimination over generations. I'd also like to point out your statement doesn't really add to the conversation as any people in prison, or considered an enemy of the state can be spun politically.
  - lettergram 8y ago
    My point is criminal behavior is defined by the ruling class. So this pervasive 24/7 monitoring doesn’t necessarily reduce the overall harm to a society - in fact it may make it worse. Also: > We have millions of black people incarcerated, the result of systematic discrimination over generations. Not even close to the extent China is persecuting - today. I won’t speak for generations past, clearly not ideal. But I think that’s kind of the point, we agree it’s not ideal.
    - Fricken 8y ago
      >Not even Close to the extent China is persecuting today You might want to look that up. America has the highest incarceration rate in the world, even after you factor in the worst estimates for the Uyghur reeducation camps.
      - lettergram 8y ago
        Incarcerations are not persecutions. Arguably a negligible number of percecutions occur in the U.S., as most of the incarcerations are due to violent crimes. Most of the Uyghur re-education camps (which is just one of many examples known and unknown) are not due to violent crimes, but ethnic or political backgrounds (I.e. persecutions)
thaumasiotes 8y ago
> So before all the privacy activists are up in arms, this is pretty incredible and it looks like they're getting pretty close to eliminating all violent crime. To be fair, Chinese people anywhere in the world have exceptionally low rates of committing violent crime, and this has been true since long before anyone started a facial recognition program.
ardy42 8y ago
> So before all the privacy activists are up in arms, this is pretty incredible and it looks like they're getting pretty close to eliminating all violent crime. Even if it's successful, it will only be used to eliminate the crimes committed by people without connections. Powerful and connected people will be allowed to get away with crimes.
PlasticTank 8y ago
> getting pretty close to eliminating all violent crime Clearly you haven't been on YouTube lately, China must be the world capital of getting stabbed on CCTV.
kbenson 8y ago
There are many theoretical ways to eliminate violent crime that would be to most people's eyes vastly worse than letting crime continue, so it's dangerous to elevate one metric above all others. Here are some theoretical ways to eliminate all crime which would likely be worse for everyone: - Eliminate all people - Keep all people physically separated from each other. - Remove all freedom of expression or free will from people. Those are, obviously, some of the most extreme possible ways to accomplish that goal, but it does illustrate that there's an obvious trade off being made, and that even in cases where it might not be as obvious as these, we should identify and think about the consequences of that trade.
jjcc 8y ago
Violent crime rate is very low because of another reason: Security cameras everywhere. Criminals are either already in jail because of more efficient policing, or stop doing stupid things after watching the real stories on TV about how criminals were caught.

georgyo 8y ago

"There is no murder in paradise."

Waterluvian 8y ago

One good reason for having many countries is we can run lots of different experiments on how to govern. Totally ignoring all the humans rights fears, this sure is fascinating.

randall 8y ago
I mean that's the thing, China is going to implement it, we get to see what happens, and I don't think there's much we can do to stop it. I'm interested in seeing how historians look at this period of human history since it will theoretically be so objectively (? maybe? At least plentifully.) documented.
- yters 8y ago
  If there is one thing the Chinese government is known for, it is objectively documenting everything it does and making such records available to all.
  - chrischen 8y ago
    Either it's documented and the opposition can make educated criticisms, or it's not documented and the oppositions is politically motivated. You can't have both.
  - selimthegrim 8y ago
    Uh, by records do you mean terra cotta soldiers?

Myrth 8y ago

Watch "Person of Interest" show

yters 8y ago

Since nothing a government does is a crime, by definition, then by consolidating all crimes, violent and otherwise, to the government then we have eliminated all evil! Brilliant!

lettergram 8y ago

> eliminating all violent crime You mean, if it’s real and even if it does work that well, besides the state sponsored kind? China has millions of people in internment and retraining camps... Regarding your “new ideological movement” comment. It’s not really... we saw the same ideology (to a less effective level) in all dictatorships and communist countries. Secret police, thought police, etc.

chrischen 8y ago
We have millions of black people incarcerated, the result of systematic discrimination over generations. I'd also like to point out your statement doesn't really add to the conversation as any people in prison, or considered an enemy of the state can be spun politically.
- lettergram 8y ago
  My point is criminal behavior is defined by the ruling class. So this pervasive 24/7 monitoring doesn’t necessarily reduce the overall harm to a society - in fact it may make it worse. Also: > We have millions of black people incarcerated, the result of systematic discrimination over generations. Not even close to the extent China is persecuting - today. I won’t speak for generations past, clearly not ideal. But I think that’s kind of the point, we agree it’s not ideal.
  - Fricken 8y ago
    >Not even Close to the extent China is persecuting today You might want to look that up. America has the highest incarceration rate in the world, even after you factor in the worst estimates for the Uyghur reeducation camps.
    - lettergram 8y ago
      Incarcerations are not persecutions. Arguably a negligible number of percecutions occur in the U.S., as most of the incarcerations are due to violent crimes. Most of the Uyghur re-education camps (which is just one of many examples known and unknown) are not due to violent crimes, but ethnic or political backgrounds (I.e. persecutions)

thaumasiotes 8y ago

> So before all the privacy activists are up in arms, this is pretty incredible and it looks like they're getting pretty close to eliminating all violent crime. To be fair, Chinese people anywhere in the world have exceptionally low rates of committing violent crime, and this has been true since long before anyone started a facial recognition program.

ardy42 8y ago

> So before all the privacy activists are up in arms, this is pretty incredible and it looks like they're getting pretty close to eliminating all violent crime. Even if it's successful, it will only be used to eliminate the crimes committed by people without connections. Powerful and connected people will be allowed to get away with crimes.

PlasticTank 8y ago

> getting pretty close to eliminating all violent crime Clearly you haven't been on YouTube lately, China must be the world capital of getting stabbed on CCTV.

kbenson 8y ago

There are many theoretical ways to eliminate violent crime that would be to most people's eyes vastly worse than letting crime continue, so it's dangerous to elevate one metric above all others. Here are some theoretical ways to eliminate all crime which would likely be worse for everyone: - Eliminate all people - Keep all people physically separated from each other. - Remove all freedom of expression or free will from people. Those are, obviously, some of the most extreme possible ways to accomplish that goal, but it does illustrate that there's an obvious trade off being made, and that even in cases where it might not be as obvious as these, we should identify and think about the consequences of that trade.

jjcc 8y ago

Violent crime rate is very low because of another reason: Security cameras everywhere. Criminals are either already in jail because of more efficient policing, or stop doing stupid things after watching the real stories on TV about how criminals were caught.