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> Suspects can be held without charge for as long as 23 days, and they have no right to a lawyer during questioning. Prosecutors also have the power to forbid f

by a-wu 8y ago

> Suspects can be held without charge for as long as 23 days, and they have no right to a lawyer during questioning. Prosecutors also have the power to forbid family visits. When the 23-day period expires, a suspect can be rearrested for another offense, resetting the clock to zero. And once someone has been indicted, the outcome is all but predetermined, leaving defense attorneys to focus on coaching their clients to confess in the least damaging way. The U.S. criminal justice system receives a lot of (arguably well-deserved) flak, but this seems almost borderline inhumane. Is "innocent until proven guilty" not important in Japan like it is in the U.S.?

endorphone 8y ago
Given that the conviction rate exceeds 99% it all seems like splitting hairs -- when you've been charged, you will be sentenced. It seems unlikely that they're just that good at deciding who to charge.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  It’s based on extracting confessions. If you’ve confessed, naturally you are guilty. They just don’t actually charge anyone until they’ve already confessed. The only problem is that insane structure where they basically lock you up until you are so tired of it you confess to basically whatever they want out of desperation. I’m fairly sure that if he just waits it out he’ll go perfectly free, and I suspect he knows the same.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    If you’re locked up no matter what, what’s the difference in being found guilty of not?
- jacquesm 8y ago
  That argument holds true at every percentage, and it gets trotted out here on HN with regularity. "Oh, the DOJ would never charge people that they aren't sure they will convict" and variations on that theme. Getting arrested at all is in the eyes of many the same as being guilty of something even if not the particular crime you are being charged with.
- mc32 8y ago
  Prosecutors tend to only take cases with high certainty of conviction. It’s also why murders get classified as “accidental deaths”, because prosecutors are unwilling to prosecute on iffy evidence (they know someone was murdered, but just don’t have bullet proof evidence).
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Is "innocent until proven guilty" not important in Japan like it is in the U.S.? Not even close. Among notionally liberal democratic states, Japan and the US are nearly at the opposing extremes on that ideal.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  Plea bargaining brings the US a lot closer the Japanese system than it really has to be.
  - mc32 8y ago
    Also “lying” ala Martha Stewart. They don’t get her on the crime she’s accused of but rather of misleading investigators. But they can’t waste millions to come up with nothing, do they hang her on that and call it a victory.
- rangibaby 8y ago
  Look up the US conviction rate. It’s not as different to Japan as you might think. In both the US and Japan if your case goes to trial you are in big trouble.
wp381640 8y ago
my biggest takeaway from the entire affair is just how horrible the Japanese justice system is In addition to that absurd holding time: defence lawyer doesn't see the case until close to trial, almost impossible to get bail, the absurdly high conviction rate, not being able to take notes, forced interviews, confessions, having you "prepare for a confession" Sounds like a justice system from a dictatorship, not a supposed liberal democracy
- octorian 8y ago
  Sometime back in the 90's, I remember seeing a segment about the Japanese justice system on either 20/20 or 60 Minutes. Basically there was an American who had the misfortune of simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time, got arrested, and had to endure this torture for the better part of a year. I they said he was lucky enough to actually be in the 1% that isn't convicted. The whole ordeal was so bad that it actually made me afraid to even consider visiting that country. This is nothing new, its just that everyone is now being reminded about it because of a high profile case making the news rounds.
ci5er 8y ago
It's pretty rough. In my (limited?) experience, I prefer the Singaporean justice system to Japan's (which I have learned to avoid at all costs)

by a-wu 8y ago

endorphone 8y ago

Given that the conviction rate exceeds 99% it all seems like splitting hairs -- when you've been charged, you will be sentenced. It seems unlikely that they're just that good at deciding who to charge.

Aeolun 8y ago
It’s based on extracting confessions. If you’ve confessed, naturally you are guilty. They just don’t actually charge anyone until they’ve already confessed. The only problem is that insane structure where they basically lock you up until you are so tired of it you confess to basically whatever they want out of desperation. I’m fairly sure that if he just waits it out he’ll go perfectly free, and I suspect he knows the same.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  If you’re locked up no matter what, what’s the difference in being found guilty of not?
jacquesm 8y ago
That argument holds true at every percentage, and it gets trotted out here on HN with regularity. "Oh, the DOJ would never charge people that they aren't sure they will convict" and variations on that theme. Getting arrested at all is in the eyes of many the same as being guilty of something even if not the particular crime you are being charged with.
mc32 8y ago
Prosecutors tend to only take cases with high certainty of conviction. It’s also why murders get classified as “accidental deaths”, because prosecutors are unwilling to prosecute on iffy evidence (they know someone was murdered, but just don’t have bullet proof evidence).

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Is "innocent until proven guilty" not important in Japan like it is in the U.S.? Not even close. Among notionally liberal democratic states, Japan and the US are nearly at the opposing extremes on that ideal.

jacquesm 8y ago
Plea bargaining brings the US a lot closer the Japanese system than it really has to be.
- mc32 8y ago
  Also “lying” ala Martha Stewart. They don’t get her on the crime she’s accused of but rather of misleading investigators. But they can’t waste millions to come up with nothing, do they hang her on that and call it a victory.
rangibaby 8y ago
Look up the US conviction rate. It’s not as different to Japan as you might think. In both the US and Japan if your case goes to trial you are in big trouble.

wp381640 8y ago

my biggest takeaway from the entire affair is just how horrible the Japanese justice system is In addition to that absurd holding time: defence lawyer doesn't see the case until close to trial, almost impossible to get bail, the absurdly high conviction rate, not being able to take notes, forced interviews, confessions, having you "prepare for a confession" Sounds like a justice system from a dictatorship, not a supposed liberal democracy

octorian 8y ago
Sometime back in the 90's, I remember seeing a segment about the Japanese justice system on either 20/20 or 60 Minutes. Basically there was an American who had the misfortune of simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time, got arrested, and had to endure this torture for the better part of a year. I they said he was lucky enough to actually be in the 1% that isn't convicted. The whole ordeal was so bad that it actually made me afraid to even consider visiting that country. This is nothing new, its just that everyone is now being reminded about it because of a high profile case making the news rounds.

ci5er 8y ago

It's pretty rough. In my (limited?) experience, I prefer the Singaporean justice system to Japan's (which I have learned to avoid at all costs)