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That the insurance company feels comfortable nobody will punish them for stealing your money. Their business model is who can they get away with not helping re

That the insurance company feels comfortable nobody will punish them for stealing your money. Their business model is who can they get away with not helping really.

jaggederest 8y ago
Actually most insurance companies pay out more money in losses than they take in via premiums. The real business models for insurance companies isn't underwriting profits, it's arbitraging the time value of money (pay premiums now, pay claims later) via investing the float.
- a1369209993 8y ago
  That's not more money though; that's less money exchanged into a weaker (more inflated) currency. Four pounds isn't more than three kilograms just because the number is larger.
- nradov 8y ago
  That might have been true at some point in history but is no longer possible in a ZIRP environment.
jaredklewis 8y ago
This is a very strange point of view. If they are stealing, they aren't doing it very well! Insurance companies tend to only have profit margins around ~5%. And what does that mean about insurance buyers? Are they all idiots for buying insurance, since it just means their money will get stolen? Insurance companies can't afford to pay out any more than they need to; doing so would raise premiums for all customers and make their products less appealing in a fairly competitive industry. Whether NotPetya was an "act of war" (a legal term of art), is a legitimately interesting discussion! To have it reduced to "those insurance companies are stealing" is depressingly simplistic.
- benologist 8y ago
  That ~5% worked out to almost 4 billion profit last year for my healthcare company. They are incentivized to decline coverage as much as they possibly can and have a long history showing they want to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthem_(company)#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthem_(company)#Controversies The DMHC randomly selected 90 instances where Anthem Blue Cross canceled the insurance of policy holders who had been diagnosed with costly or life-threatening illnesses, to find how many of these cancellations were legal. The agency concluded that all these cancellations were illegal. Falling on "it was an act of war" when no government has declared such a war is nothing more than creative accounting. (this is also Anthem) On 17 March 2010, WellPoint announced it was reclassifying some of its administrative costs as medical care costs in order to meet new loss ratio requirements under the health care law, which requires insurers to spend at least 80% or 85% of customer premiums on health care services, depending on the type of plan.[5 https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-die-in-the-US-each-year-from-denied-medical-insurance-claims https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-die-in-the-US-each-yea... https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/26/business/26care.html https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/26/business/26care.html https://www.thedailybeast.com/my-insurance-company-killed-me-despite-obamacare https://www.thedailybeast.com/my-insurance-company-killed-me...
  - jaredklewis 8y ago
    Yes, they are profit making companies. Those profits are distributed to investors, in the case of Anthem, that's mostly institutional investors, i.e. people's retirement funds. What's your point? Anthem's 4% margins are well below the S&P 500 average of 11%. If Anthem was simply stealing surely their margins would be a little higher? And who are the idiots buying Anthem insurance? I mean, if it was just stealing, everyone would take their money somewhere else, no? Of course the truth is not simple, but rather complex. Most any company has a "Controversies" section on their wikipedia page. Toyota once shipped a car with bad brakes. What does it mean? Are all companies simply stealing? Yes, insurance companies are incentivized to decline coverage, so that they can lower premiums (to compete) and increase margins. But they are also incentivized to payout because if they don't, people stop buying insurance. > Falling on "it was an act of war" when no government has declared such a war is nothing more than creative accounting. (this is also Anthem) Quite certain that is not how the courts will interpret the term "act of war." In international law, for example, there is certainly no precedent that a government declaration of war is required for an act to be considered an act of war. Any aggressive act can potentially be considered an act of war. If Russia decided to blow up a bunch of US freighters, sans-declaration of war, fairly certain the act could pass as an act of war.

That the insurance company feels comfortable nobody will punish them for stealing your money. Their business model is who can they get away with not helping really.

jaggederest 8y ago

Actually most insurance companies pay out more money in losses than they take in via premiums. The real business models for insurance companies isn't underwriting profits, it's arbitraging the time value of money (pay premiums now, pay claims later) via investing the float.

a1369209993 8y ago
That's not more money though; that's less money exchanged into a weaker (more inflated) currency. Four pounds isn't more than three kilograms just because the number is larger.
nradov 8y ago
That might have been true at some point in history but is no longer possible in a ZIRP environment.

jaredklewis 8y ago

This is a very strange point of view. If they are stealing, they aren't doing it very well! Insurance companies tend to only have profit margins around ~5%. And what does that mean about insurance buyers? Are they all idiots for buying insurance, since it just means their money will get stolen? Insurance companies can't afford to pay out any more than they need to; doing so would raise premiums for all customers and make their products less appealing in a fairly competitive industry. Whether NotPetya was an "act of war" (a legal term of art), is a legitimately interesting discussion! To have it reduced to "those insurance companies are stealing" is depressingly simplistic.

benologist 8y ago
That ~5% worked out to almost 4 billion profit last year for my healthcare company. They are incentivized to decline coverage as much as they possibly can and have a long history showing they want to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthem_(company)#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthem_(company)#Controversies The DMHC randomly selected 90 instances where Anthem Blue Cross canceled the insurance of policy holders who had been diagnosed with costly or life-threatening illnesses, to find how many of these cancellations were legal. The agency concluded that all these cancellations were illegal. Falling on "it was an act of war" when no government has declared such a war is nothing more than creative accounting. (this is also Anthem) On 17 March 2010, WellPoint announced it was reclassifying some of its administrative costs as medical care costs in order to meet new loss ratio requirements under the health care law, which requires insurers to spend at least 80% or 85% of customer premiums on health care services, depending on the type of plan.[5 https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-die-in-the-US-each-year-from-denied-medical-insurance-claims https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-die-in-the-US-each-yea... https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/26/business/26care.html https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/26/business/26care.html https://www.thedailybeast.com/my-insurance-company-killed-me-despite-obamacare https://www.thedailybeast.com/my-insurance-company-killed-me...
- jaredklewis 8y ago
  Yes, they are profit making companies. Those profits are distributed to investors, in the case of Anthem, that's mostly institutional investors, i.e. people's retirement funds. What's your point? Anthem's 4% margins are well below the S&P 500 average of 11%. If Anthem was simply stealing surely their margins would be a little higher? And who are the idiots buying Anthem insurance? I mean, if it was just stealing, everyone would take their money somewhere else, no? Of course the truth is not simple, but rather complex. Most any company has a "Controversies" section on their wikipedia page. Toyota once shipped a car with bad brakes. What does it mean? Are all companies simply stealing? Yes, insurance companies are incentivized to decline coverage, so that they can lower premiums (to compete) and increase margins. But they are also incentivized to payout because if they don't, people stop buying insurance. > Falling on "it was an act of war" when no government has declared such a war is nothing more than creative accounting. (this is also Anthem) Quite certain that is not how the courts will interpret the term "act of war." In international law, for example, there is certainly no precedent that a government declaration of war is required for an act to be considered an act of war. Any aggressive act can potentially be considered an act of war. If Russia decided to blow up a bunch of US freighters, sans-declaration of war, fairly certain the act could pass as an act of war.