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$190M missing after crypto exchange Quadriga CEO dies
- Torn 8y agoFull text: https://outline.com/nVDP65 https://outline.com/nVDP65
- disqard 8y agoThank you!
- seibelj 8y agoEdit - This is a conspiracy theory but it doesn’t mean it’s totally crazy - there is a good chance this “dead” CEO is still alive. Very shortly before his death he got his affairs in order and flew to India. Then it’s reported he died along with a death certificate from India. Now they can’t find $200mil in crypto and are not reporting the cold storage addresses. Would not surprise me if there has been massive fraud here, whether the CEO is alive or not. Everything is too convenient. If you want to read posts from many sad and pissed off people, their subreddit is full of them https://www.reddit.com/r/QuadrigaCX https://www.reddit.com/r/QuadrigaCX
- seizethecheese 8y agoWell, it is a conspiracy theory, but not all conspiracy theories are wrong...
- warent 8y agoWell strictly speaking it is a conspiracy theory but not an unreasonable one.
- gammateam 8y agoYes the exchange participating in not disclosing cold storage addresses would make it a conspiracy
- mrtnmcc 8y agoCold storage addresses.. you mean the morgue?
- seibelj 8y agoI know this is meant as humor, but if they reported the public cold storage addresses then analysis could be done on movements and timelines. I’m quite confident the lawyers will get to the bottom of this.
- faead_ 8y agoYou realize that all bitcoin transactions can be tracked. People have sent BTC from their wallets to Quadriga, it should be trivial to find the cold wallet address. Should be easy for anyone who understands blockchain forensics.
- whoisjuan 8y agoAlso, to feed the conspiracy theory that this is a fraud: They are claiming he died from Chron’s disease which is highly unlikely. It seems like a plausible deniability move. He probably has Chron’s disease and that can be easily proven through his medical history. Also is easier to tie that, to a story in which he couldn’t get the right treatment for his Chron’s disease complications abroad.
- covercash 8y agoDying from complications related to Crohn’s is not out of the question, especially in places that don’t always have the best health care.
- raverbashing 8y agoI'm sure there's good health care there for people who can afford it
- n_t 8y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_tourism_in_India "India is cost-effectiveness, and treatment from accredited facilities at par with developed countries at much lower cost."
- Scoundreller 8y agoBut will a Canadian that’s unfamiliar with the country be able to find it? (Serious question, I have no idea what the answer is).
- me551ah 8y agoIt's really easy to find hospitals in India, just google 'hospitals around me' or use the phone number '102' to call an ambulance from any place. Usually, doctors are very comfortable talking in English. I'm from India and most of my conversations with doctors happen in English.
- 8y ago
- sidyapa 8y agoI am from India and trust me, finding a public toilet is more difficult than faking a death certificate
- techslave 8y agowait. so is that easy or hard?
- lurkertroll 8y agoI am also confused
- ekianjo 8y agoCan you easily buy a new identity and passport though?
- guardiangod 8y agoI guess with $200 million untraceable money you can afford to buy an identity of a dead Indian.
- creatornator 8y agoI would think since every transaction is recorded on the blockchain, and he is the only one with the keys, any activity involving those BTC would raise a red flag.
- rmtech 8y agoBut suppose that some time from now someone moves all that BTC into a different cryptocurrency, potentially via automated services like shapeshift. What happens? How do people punish him?
- ssvss 8y agoDeath certificate is issued by local authorities, so easier to bribe. But valid Passport will be hard to get.
- vit05 8y agoGood to add that they were having some liquidity problems before his death. The trip to India was supposed to open an orphanage. This orphanage was built by an organization that accepts large donations for specific buildings such as orphanages or water wells. For an orphanage, it costs $ 50,000. It did not seem to me, when visiting this organization's website, that they have full transparency about these negotiations and these expenses. And so far they have not released addresses for cold wallets. Okay, he had the private key. But public keys would have to be known by the system.
- Dave_TRS 8y agohttp://dayssinceacryptocurrencyexchangehaslostmorethan100million.com/ http://dayssinceacryptocurrencyexchangehaslostmorethan100mil...
- bouncycastle 8y agoWait... What the??? Quote "BitGrail lost $170 million worth of Nano XRB tokens because... the checks for whether you had a sufficient balance to withdraw were only implemented as client-side JavaScript "
- londons_explore 8y ago"top men"
- tyingq 8y agoI remember a number of early e-commerce sites that put item prices in HTML forms. So craft your own POST, and name your own price.
- mtmail 8y agoRecently seen the price listed/editable in the URL on a checkout form page.
- bouncycastle 8y agoYes, seen this once before, where the shipping price was calculated client side, then sent to the server with no validation. You could craft a request with a negative value and get the price down to a cent for the entire cart! At least in e-commerce, you can always send an email to the customer explaining the mistake, and cancel the order...
- nopriorarrests 8y agohilarious!
- quickthrower2 8y agoKudos. It's harder to lose $100m these days as when Bitcoin was at peak price.
- tossaccount123 8y agopeople have done crazier things for less money Fake your death, get some plastic surgery done, enjoy life with those $200 million dollars
- FabHK 8y agoReminds me of drug trafficker "Lord of the Skies" Amado Carrillo Fuentes, who underwent plastic surgery, but died after the 8 hour procedure. The doctors were later found in concrete filled oil drums along a highway, with signs of torture to boot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amado_Carrillo_Fuentes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amado_Carrillo_Fuentes http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9711/06/mexico.doctor/index.html http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9711/06/mexico.doctor/index.htm... Another one: https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/343092/mexican-gang-boss-killed-during-plastic-surgery https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/343092/mexican-gang-bos...
- thisisit 8y agoA viable one at that. Many NGOs in India are actually sketchy business operations. I am no expert but Indian laws are very strict when it comes to foreign money transactions. The law behind is called the Foreign Contribution (Regulation) Act, 2010. Everyone taking in foreign contributions need to register and file the amount of dollars flowing in. I tried searching for the NGO on the FCRA website: https://fcraonline.nic.in/fc8_statewise.aspx https://fcraonline.nic.in/fc8_statewise.aspx in state of Andhra Pradesh and got nothing.
- tiuPapa 8y agoNot true. Things have improved vastly in the health administration sector, especially when it comes to records. Corruption is indeed rampant but I think most Indians themselves have a very Bollywood-y idea about how things happen outside of their circle. So for a foreign official, outright faking it would be tough, until its somewhere deep in the rural parts (with little connection to the outside world). I think its more plausible that he committed suicide and the records are being altered, not faked. Source: I have family working in this sector. Shit is difficult, especially if you are a foreign personal.
- sho 8y agoI'm sure they have improved greatly, which is wonderful, but it's still India, as you admit yourself: > Corruption is indeed rampant Are you seriously claiming you couldn't get a fake record in India for USD$1m? or even USD$100k? That is a lot of money for a doctor in India. I have a trouble believing it would be all that hard. It was probably all organised before he even got on the plane.
- londons_explore 8y agoHe could perhaps have been having trouble with his Chrones disease, so he got his affairs in order and went to India for potentially risky and expensive treatment, which didn't go well.
- hndamien 8y agoAnd the motivation for getting the affairs in order didn’t motivate including private key management in the affairs. There is zero chance this is not a scam exit.
- tyingq 8y agoOne comment in that thread stands out: "Who writes a will two weeks before their death but doesn't create a backup plan for the wallets that hold other people's funds?"
- justboxing 8y ago> Very shortly before his death he got his affairs in order and flew to India. This is a huge red flag. It's really easy to get fake IDs, passports, marriage certificates, death certificates, driver's licenses[1] etc in India, if you grease the right hands. and it's not even that much in USD. We are talking a couple of 100 bucks ( USD ) for a new passport with a new name and far less for other things. [1] Source: Me. I) had to bribe a DMV officer about 200 Rs ( 4 USD back then in 1999) to get my Driver's License , so I can drive in US. I had to do this cos I was leaving in 3 days and I'd landed a job the previous week ( Had my H1-B ready to go). I didn't even go to the DMV. He delivered the "International Drivers Permit" drivers license right to my door in 2 days.
- Gustomaximus 8y agoAdd to this: "Mr. Cotten was diligent in other areas of his life. He signed a will on Nov. 27, less than two weeks before he died." If that his first will, either he knew he was so ill this was a chance or another red flag.
- amrx431 8y agoIndian here. Its very easy to get a death certificate. Local newspapers do funny stings where they have got birth certificates and death certificates made of international personalities. Most funny was those of Zarqawi and Bin Laden.
- gammateam 8y agoThe 2017 FOMOers need a couple more of these Everyone wanting to pretend to be Wolf of Wall Street and brag about not understanding technology but making a ton of money trading it? This is easily avoidable by all parties and their ignorance is catching up to them
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- onetimemanytime 8y agoLotsa things don't add up and are just too convenient--based on paper articles. But, unless he gambled /lost them, faking his own death probably not going to ensure that he enjoys the loot. But then, not all think it to every detail. I would have faked a hack and announce that 8% of coins were stolen or whatever. $15 million, means that at least he could have gotten half of it in cash (assuming a laundering discount) and a lot more if the price rises. Retire in a foreign country and be quiet.
- kkarakk 8y agoYet another aspect of crypto's long term ignored consequences come to light. i haven't seen ANY possible solution for transfer of crypto after original owner's death. even ethereum doesn't have this simple ability inbuilt(which you'd think would be obvious). this basic question gets downvoted on any forum you'd think of - husband/wife has large amount of money in crypto, they die due to unforeseen circumstances(or even foreseen circumstances but it's a quick degradation of mental facilities). who does the spouse approach for the crypto? they have proof of death so why don't they get the money? poof, value gone - have fun now you're a destitute relative coz you can't figure out passwords(most grieving relatives can't)! this is why no one trusts crypto,these simple things aren't a fundamental part of the platform. you get people telling you these convoluted solutions(that may or may not work). the fraud potential is sky high. is crypto only meant as a transient toy?
- dannyw 8y agoThis capacity exists, it’s called a dead mans switch. There are many ETH smart contracts which do this.
- cma 8y agoA small typo can throw all the money in the trash, while a typo in a real contract can be fixed by a court based on other evidence.
- erikpukinskis 8y agoNo, there is no legal difference. A small typo in a crypto contract does not entitle the beneficiary to the funds. Your access to restitution through the courts is exactly the same.
- gizmo686 8y agoWhat beneficiary?
- 8y ago
- newsbinator 8y ago> The largest individual user account balance is valued at $70-million.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- djohnston 8y agoooof, although maybe if you have 70 mil in crypto it's only a fraction of your wealth. otherwise you're an idiot
- raverbashing 8y agoYeah, in crypto it's usually not the former
- ghayes 8y agoIt's likely a fund, not a single user's assets.
- WrathOfJay 8y agoColor me surprised... surely not another crypto heist. This is going to keep happening, over and over again. Put your money in this stuff at your own peril.
- SlowRobotAhead 8y agoWe created a nearly perfect way to quickly steal large amounts of money... why would people take advantage of that!?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- kowdermeister 8y ago#WrathOfJay { color: surprised; }
- woogiewonka 8y agotext-decoration: underline;
- jen729w 8y agoThe company, which presumably has more employees than this one dude, never considered the fact that he was the only person who held the keys? C’mon. I’m smart enough to have given a friend my 1Password emergency recovery kit and, I tell you now, that ain’t worth $200m.
- solotronics 8y agowho would you trust enough to give the private keys to $200m?
- y4mi 8y agoYou don't have to trust one person with a key for everything. You can use several keys, and even add a paid dead man's trigger from an unrelated website.
- GordonS 8y agoYou can break the key up into pieces, so no one person holds the whole key, or use something like Shamir's Secret Sharing algorithm.
- patio11 8y agoThis was also true at Mt. Gox, FWIW, as reported by an employee that I find credible. The sector is clownshoes. We should not be surprised by clownshoes behavior in it. There is a spirited debate on whether a putative financial firm with 9 figures under management perpetuated a nine figure control fraud or was merely markedly less sophisticated at accounting controls than the bookkeeper at my daughter’s kindergarten, that being the plausibly exculpatory option in crypto.
- wolco 8y agoGreat I just moved 50 dollars over and was going to use it yesterday but decided to wait. Cryto is like a game of hot potato where the most important thing is not to be the last holding the potato when the music stops. It's been slowly going down over the last year as people give up on an upswing and checkout at a lower price. Using bitcoin as currency always made the most sense over a store of value. The exchanges have all of the properties of a 1910 bank just waiting to get robbed while the bank manager has already taken the loot from the vault.
- tigershark 8y agoThe amazing thing is that BTC is still 3.5k after the countless money heist that happened. Actually I really thought that it was dead after Mt. gox. I guess that it’s Darwin at work here.
- bouncycastle 8y agoIt actually works the opposite. Every time a heist or loss happens, coins are being removed from circulation, making all remaining circulating coins more scarce, thus more valuable in the long term (market takes a while to reflect this). In heists, the coins become tainted and very difficult to sell as everyone can see their origin. Mtgox removed quite a lot of BTC from the circulating supply.
- celticninja 8y agoNo it didn't, those coins got back into the supply before the theft was reported publicly. I think the coins stolen from bitfinex are still sitting there so it does happen, just not with the MtGox theft.
- bouncycastle 8y agoAhh, yes. That's right, a lot of it 'disappeared' without being noticed or reported, so reentered circulation fairly quickly. How much of it was successfully laundered though? Didn't they catch the guy suspected of laundering them? (Someone behind btc-e if I recall) Don't really want to split hairs here, but there's still 137,891 BTC left in Mt Gox cold wallets that has yet to be liquidated by the administrators. (Out of the 200k that was 'found'). That's quite a significant amount by anyone's calculation.
- gammateam 8y agofunny how people get the same information and make opposite conclusions ain't it
- whttheuuu 8y agoIt's like the opposite of the feds printing money. Removing currency from circulation decreases supply making it more scarce.
- lota-putty 8y agoGreed to make money without honest work led many along wicket paths. Stupids will be slaugtered every now and then. We have to learn when to participate & when not to. Learn to identify ponzi shcemes, coz they're here to stay. Analogous, stock-market & trading; bigger companies/fish will always reap better than individual participants.
- joecool1029 8y ago>Operators of other Canadian cryptocurrency exchanges called it highly unusual for a single executive to be the only one with access to the company’s funds. It's almost like they never heard of Mt.Gox and MagicalTux.
- alexcnwy 8y agoPaywall but can read article if you stop the page from loading before the modal pops up
- m101 8y agoRemove the "Https://" bit and type in "www.outline.com/" and it should work here and on many sites like it.
- ijb03qv7 8y agoNo need to, really. Just prepend "outline.com/" to the full url. outline.com/https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/streetwise/article-quadriga-cant-access-190-million-following-ceos-death-court/
- puranjay 8y agoCrypto is a scam and the only reason anyone should partake in it is to either test your gullibility, or scam others. Anything that 4chan's /biz/ board promotes aggressively is a scam 9/10 times
- blunte 8y agoMany plants in nature will kill you if you eat them, but can you say that "Plants are deadly to humans"? It's a bit like money. Money itself isn't bad, but people do incredibly bad things to get money. Likewise, crypto isn't "a scam". People make a lot of scams related to cryptocurrency, but that doesn't mean many of the concepts of cryptocurrency are bad or a scam. Bitcoin may be quite imperfect, but it's also quite useful for exchanging value quickly and cheaply, and without banks getting to decide if you can or cannot.
- kkarakk 8y agowould you accept payouts from a person(in the US) who only agreed to pay you in Zimbabwean dollars? that's the argument you're making...sure the currency has value but are you prepared to stomach the risk that dealing with it entails?
- mruts 8y agoWell not to buy a pizza, probably not. But if I wanted to buy drugs, then, yeah probably. Also 90% of the population is in the developing world where it might actually be the case that BTC is more trusted than their local currency. I think it’s myopic to consider the value of crypto against the 1st world’s banking system with respect to ‘standard’ transactions. The value lies in either: ‘non-standard’ transactions (buying black market goods) or in developing nations.
- demxzy 8y agoEven in majority of developing countries, it's better to keep your money in Fiat or even USD account(where allowed) becuase you don't suddenly loose 80% in a month or two (Exceptions bring countries like Zimbabwe and Venezuela). Sure, you could loose say 20 to 30% due to fiscal adjustments due to many factors over a year, but almost everyone in your country would likely be in the same boat as you and things like PPP (for locally manufactured goods) might adjust to minimize some of the impact
- kzrdude 8y agoIt's "$190M" in crypto currency, but I wonder how many dollars he's escaping with.
- baby 8y agoI can't read the article, it is behind a paywall.
- MidnightRaver 8y agoThis is one of those rare occasions hiring goons to off the guy would be the moral thing to do.
- dang 8y agoPlease don't do this here.
- stevespang 8y agoPAYWALL
- aphextron 8y agoThis illustrates why, through extensive experience and interaction with "blockchain" folks, I want nothing to do with the entire crypto industry. It attracts the very worst of the worst. I'm sure there are plenty of honest companies trying their best to legitimize this stuff. But the vast, vast majority of it is just outright plundering and fraud by the most vile people on earth.
- tyingq 8y agoAnd even if you are generous and say it's incompetence and not fraud...that's still a good reason to steer clear. It's certainly one or other when this sort of thing happens.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 8y agoPeople have said the same about the Internet in the past have they not?
- aphextron 8y agoMaybe. But the immediately apparent, world changing utility of the internet couldn’t be denied. It didn’t need “evangelizers”, it took off because it was a useful technology. I’ve yet to be convinced in the same way of a single legitimate non-speculatory use for crypto.
- cargo8 8y agoIf you don't own your keys, you don't own your crypto.
- rblion 8y agoNot sketchy at all.