5 ms·

Interview with Ted Nelson

125 points by seapunk 8y ago

jf 8y ago
For what it's worth, YC is helping Ted Nelson sell his "Computer Lib / Dream Machines" book: https://twitter.com/nolimits/status/1087770718878687232 https://twitter.com/nolimits/status/1087770718878687232 This book is a truly unique and is worth owning in hardcopy format.
- wanderingjew 8y ago
  Glad to see YC is catching up to what Microsoft did in the 80s.
  - 1123581321 8y ago
    Are you saying that a third printing is derivative if someone else did the second printing? I’m not aware of how common it is to have different publishers or presses handle successive reprints.
  - adora 8y ago
    It's not really affiliated with YC; I just happen to work there. I met Ted while trying to find a copy of the book and when he told me he had a bunch in storage, I volunteered to help sell the rest. 100% sales go to him. This edition is just a reprint of his first edition. Ted re-published it himself. I haven't read the Microsoft edition yet but I know Ted hates what they did with his book.
    - AlbertoGP 8y ago
      > I haven't read the Microsoft edition yet but I know Ted hates what they did with his book. Here is a review of the book that describes the problem: https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/200301/computer_libdream_machines.html https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/200301/computer_libdream_mach... > The 1987 revised edition is classic ‘80 laser-printer chaos, and is not nearly as nice to read: the dimensions have been scaled down resulting in text narrowly wrapped, and awkwardly flowed from page to page.
- tivert 8y ago
  > This book is a truly unique and is worth owning in hardcopy format. Can you go into more about that?
  - DonHopkins 8y ago
    Because it's hard to hold your laptop upside down when you're reading Dream Machines.
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    It's 2 books in 1 - both covers are front covers.
- DonHopkins 8y ago
  "Computer Lib / Dream Machines" is a classic masterpiece that will flip you out!
  - mpweiher 8y ago
    LOL! It'll turn your world upside down!
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
nebulous1 8y ago
Haven't watched this interview, but this video of his is very good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmfjM-SGlGs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmfjM-SGlGs
- justin_ 8y ago
  Ted's Youtube channel is a treasure. Candid and honest, but interesting and insightful.
corybrown 8y ago
Interesting use of Notion as a publishing platform
no-such-address 8y ago
It was a beautiful dream, but one can't be both an outsider and an insider.
- ebcode 8y ago
  Too true. On the other hand, you can start out as an outsider, and end up an insider[0]. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_the_Red-Nosed_Reindeer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_the_Red-Nosed_Reindeer
  - LeonB 8y ago
    Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer isn’t a true story.
MisterOctober 8y ago
The part where he says "My problem has always been that I have too many interests -- everything is interesting to me" that really rang true
andrewflnr 8y ago
This story breaks my heart. Part of me feels like his independent thought and drive should be inspiring, but Nelson's story looks to me like a prime example of how not to do it. He seems to have fixated on the wrong things: micropayments, "visual connection". He failed to communicate his vision. > DEVON: What has your process been for communicating the ideas of Xanadu to the world? > TED: Talk and talk and talk and talk... I don't know if Xanadu as a concept ever had a chance in the wild. I don't know how to think or feel about this whole thing, except that it's some kind of tragedy. Ed: quote format
- dwheeler 8y ago
  I don't think it's a tragedy. No, his exact vision did not happen. But he influenced many, and the web would not have happened without him. It often takes many people and projects, each looking at previous efforts, before you have a well working system. Ted Nelson and Xanadu were a key link in that chain.
- anotheryou 8y ago
  I think he could have let his ideas free more. Is there a comprehensive guide to xanadu or anything open source? I think inspirational as he is he is also a bit afraid people might take his ideas away and make it in to something different he can't control.
yesenadam 8y ago
1 hour 49 minute full version of Nelson's Computers for Cynics - him talking entertainingly into the camera about computers, how they work (e.g. file systems, filenames), a lot of computing history, inside stories, key people (V Bush, Engelbart, Kay, Gates, Jobs etc), lost opportunities etc. Pretty funny, like his term the PUI (PARC UI). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ3gmh-d9oI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ3gmh-d9oI
- leoc 8y ago
  His Geeks Bearing Gifts is a more detailed, written treatment of the same material: http://www.lulu.com/shop/ted-nelson/geeks-bearing-gifts/paperback/product-4312837.html http://www.lulu.com/shop/ted-nelson/geeks-bearing-gifts/pape... . It's also a more affordable alternative to Computer Lib/Dream Machines if you want to send him some money.

125 points by seapunk 8y ago

jf 8y ago

For what it's worth, YC is helping Ted Nelson sell his "Computer Lib / Dream Machines" book: https://twitter.com/nolimits/status/1087770718878687232 https://twitter.com/nolimits/status/1087770718878687232 This book is a truly unique and is worth owning in hardcopy format.

wanderingjew 8y ago
Glad to see YC is catching up to what Microsoft did in the 80s.
- 1123581321 8y ago
  Are you saying that a third printing is derivative if someone else did the second printing? I’m not aware of how common it is to have different publishers or presses handle successive reprints.
- adora 8y ago
  It's not really affiliated with YC; I just happen to work there. I met Ted while trying to find a copy of the book and when he told me he had a bunch in storage, I volunteered to help sell the rest. 100% sales go to him. This edition is just a reprint of his first edition. Ted re-published it himself. I haven't read the Microsoft edition yet but I know Ted hates what they did with his book.
  - AlbertoGP 8y ago
    > I haven't read the Microsoft edition yet but I know Ted hates what they did with his book. Here is a review of the book that describes the problem: https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/200301/computer_libdream_machines.html https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/200301/computer_libdream_mach... > The 1987 revised edition is classic ‘80 laser-printer chaos, and is not nearly as nice to read: the dimensions have been scaled down resulting in text narrowly wrapped, and awkwardly flowed from page to page.
tivert 8y ago
> This book is a truly unique and is worth owning in hardcopy format. Can you go into more about that?
- DonHopkins 8y ago
  Because it's hard to hold your laptop upside down when you're reading Dream Machines.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  It's 2 books in 1 - both covers are front covers.
DonHopkins 8y ago
"Computer Lib / Dream Machines" is a classic masterpiece that will flip you out!
- mpweiher 8y ago
  LOL! It'll turn your world upside down!
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

nebulous1 8y ago

Haven't watched this interview, but this video of his is very good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmfjM-SGlGs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmfjM-SGlGs

justin_ 8y ago
Ted's Youtube channel is a treasure. Candid and honest, but interesting and insightful.

corybrown 8y ago

Interesting use of Notion as a publishing platform

no-such-address 8y ago

It was a beautiful dream, but one can't be both an outsider and an insider.

ebcode 8y ago
Too true. On the other hand, you can start out as an outsider, and end up an insider[0]. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_the_Red-Nosed_Reindeer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_the_Red-Nosed_Reindeer
- LeonB 8y ago
  Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer isn’t a true story.

MisterOctober 8y ago

The part where he says "My problem has always been that I have too many interests -- everything is interesting to me" that really rang true

andrewflnr 8y ago

This story breaks my heart. Part of me feels like his independent thought and drive should be inspiring, but Nelson's story looks to me like a prime example of how not to do it. He seems to have fixated on the wrong things: micropayments, "visual connection". He failed to communicate his vision. > DEVON: What has your process been for communicating the ideas of Xanadu to the world? > TED: Talk and talk and talk and talk... I don't know if Xanadu as a concept ever had a chance in the wild. I don't know how to think or feel about this whole thing, except that it's some kind of tragedy. Ed: quote format

dwheeler 8y ago
I don't think it's a tragedy. No, his exact vision did not happen. But he influenced many, and the web would not have happened without him. It often takes many people and projects, each looking at previous efforts, before you have a well working system. Ted Nelson and Xanadu were a key link in that chain.
anotheryou 8y ago
I think he could have let his ideas free more. Is there a comprehensive guide to xanadu or anything open source? I think inspirational as he is he is also a bit afraid people might take his ideas away and make it in to something different he can't control.

yesenadam 8y ago

1 hour 49 minute full version of Nelson's Computers for Cynics - him talking entertainingly into the camera about computers, how they work (e.g. file systems, filenames), a lot of computing history, inside stories, key people (V Bush, Engelbart, Kay, Gates, Jobs etc), lost opportunities etc. Pretty funny, like his term the PUI (PARC UI). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ3gmh-d9oI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ3gmh-d9oI

leoc 8y ago
His Geeks Bearing Gifts is a more detailed, written treatment of the same material: http://www.lulu.com/shop/ted-nelson/geeks-bearing-gifts/paperback/product-4312837.html http://www.lulu.com/shop/ted-nelson/geeks-bearing-gifts/pape... . It's also a more affordable alternative to Computer Lib/Dream Machines if you want to send him some money.