6 ms·

The only product from Microsoft I use is Windows and they're ruining it. So, sorry Satya, but...

electrichead 8y ago
You don't use GitHub or LinkedIn or Skype either? You might also rely on sites that are built with Microsoft technologies (Stack overflow for example) or find that your workplace gets by with Excel. It's hard to say you don't use their technologies.
- OnlyRepliesToBS 8y ago
  that sells the desire
- bayulxc5 8y ago
  I don't use github or linkedin. I don't use skype either... because Microsoft ruined it and everybody left (for business now I use Hangouts and for gaming now I use Discord).
  - Bamafan 8y ago
    I'll bet you use Azure though (even if you don't realize it). I guarantee you use apps/websites/services that leverage Azure.
  - yuy910616 8y ago
    that's clearly wrong. not everybody left. you left
    - VRay 8y ago
      Everyone I know quit using Skype too.. it's tough to have this argument without access to expensive market research reports, though More anecdotally, the only time I used Skype in the last few years was when I had a remote job interview with LINE. (Ironically, LINE's core product is a Skype competitor, and they refused to use it for the interview even though I said I'd rather stick with LINE and not install Skype. If that isn't a red flag, I don't know what is, haha)
- 20190129 8y ago
  I agree with you, I often find I like Microsoft's services and subsidiary products (those you listed). I also use the crap out of Excel. But he's right Windows is taking a dive. And other Microsoft products. Example number 1: Excel has these cheesy glide animations that do nothing but slow down imports. I export a report from quickbooks to excel and if it's a large one it almost feels like Excel will crash just from processing so many animations. I tried turning it off, but it's not as easy as it looks.
- bduerst 8y ago
  Github is a recent acquisition, but Linkedin and Skype are not exactly shining examples.
- ProAm 8y ago
  > It's hard to say you don't use their technologies Use or rely on. I have to rely on Windows. Everything else you listed has acceptable replacements.
- z3t4 8y ago
  My wife just spent several hours making a Word document, then it refused to save ... It didn't even say why it couldn't save. She is a long time Windows and Word/Office user, and pretty good with computers. But she is starting to hate technology more and more.
- timrichard 8y ago
  > You might also rely on sites that are built with Microsoft technologies (Stack overflow for example) ... which is also reliant on HAProxy, ElasticSearch and Redis, but that part doesn't get quoted so much. https://stackexchange.com/performance https://stackexchange.com/performance
DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
Seconded. Back when Windows merely had the occasional bug, it was still a worthwhile tool for me. Now that it has mandatory telemetry and unavoidable updates (at least for non-enterprise users), the value proposition has gone into negative territory. I'm sure Microsoft has their reasons for doing this, but unfortunately it's clear that our goals are too misaligned.
partiallypro 8y ago
How are they ruining Windows? People have been saying this since XP (before SP1 or SP2, when everyone hated it.) Yet there's not much evidence to support it...they are actually doing some really cool things with Windows now like adding bash and having different flavor Linux subsystems. The main issue I've had is some lack of quality control since they let go tons of testers and used Insiders instead. That has not effected me personally, but it has become a public perception they need to clean up.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  I'm not the one you're asking. But to me, the (most recent) way they ruined Windows was the new interface. I don't want to interact with my desktop via a phone/tablet interface. I don't want to use a touchscreen. I want to use only the keyboard and mouse. More: I don't want to use my computer as a media consumption device. So for me, all the new UI changes are counterproductive. But that's me. Others have different usage profiles; whether it's a net win or a net loss depends on the customer mix.
  - duxup 8y ago
    But all the cards and the tablet interface stuff ... is all side stuff that you don't need to use? At least I hardly ever see any sign of it. Am I missing something? There was an issue a LONG time ago when the tiles were more front and center but they dumped that a while ago.
    - markbnj 8y ago
      I agree with you generally but it's not just the tiles. They also made a lot of changes around how settings and other features are accessed to make them more touch friendly, and if you're just trying to get in and change a thing it's often more work to get to it. There are ways to work around almost all of it but its just sort of ongoing evidence of a design direction that didn't really pan out for the mobile users it was intended to serve, and makes life a little harder for technical desktop users. These days I only use Windows 10 for gaming and to host my ubuntu laptop over VNC. If it weren't for games/steam I'd probably uninstall it.
sovnade 8y ago
There are for sure features that I disagree with in Win10 like telemetry and automatic reboots while I'm using the computer (which has been resolved), but it's a far stretch to say they're ruining windows. I don't think I've ever had a full crash on my current Win10 box that I use daily. Driver issues are almost nonexistent. It does everything I need it to without issue. I'm not sure what else I would want from an OS.
- will_pseudonym 8y ago
  I have an annoying recurring bug in explorer.exe where, when playing full-screen media, the task bar is shown, obscuring the bottom of the content. I have a batch file on my desktop to kill/start explorer.exe it happens so often. That type of issue never happened in Windows 7/XP.
- rjf72 8y ago
  How about not having spyware? I don't think we should use the word "telemetry" when we do actually mean spyware. Telemetry, in connotation, is data used for diagnostic, maintenance, and 'real' quality assurance. I opt-in to various forms of telemetry for a number of different pieces of software I use. I'm happy to help other developers create a better product. What Microsoft is doing goes far above any reasonable notion of telemetry alone. Disable all telemetry options so much as you can. And then setup a sniffer, run Wireshark, etc on your traffic. Windows 10 is a disaster. It is constantly phoning back home, through a wide array of different addresses, sending back unknown data to Microsoft. It's safe to assume that, at the minimum, they're building extensive profiles on users which, in the most benign case, will be used to facilitate targeted advertising and messaging. Aside from that there are also technical issues with the OS such as treating production deployment as sending out code seemingly just after it passes the 'it compiled' standard of quality assurance. An update for Windows 10 in April of last year was one of several that has resulted in bricking numerous machines. Another update a few months back was deleting files on users machines resulting in Microsoft having to roll back the update, and so on. Not only is this itself all completely unacceptable, but I think it also reflects the new direction of the company. Even if you might be willing to tolerate their actions, and failures, today I think this reflects a new Microsoft. Put another way I think these issues are likely to become more substantial, and not less, as time progresses. --- As an aside, I say this all as a Windows 'enthusiast.' My 'native' environment is Visual Studio working in .NET, C# in particular. I've also been using Windows since 3.1, but Windows 10 is simply unacceptable to me as an operating system. I'm still happily running Windows 7, which also has no issues with stability/drivers. The day Microsoft decides to try to make Visual Studio Windows 10 only is the day my Ubuntu partition gets bumped to the top of the boot order. So yeah, at least from my perspective, Windows under Nadella has indeed been destroyed.
duxup 8y ago
I've seen a lot of "Windows ruined" stuff, articles and such, but they always seem like issues that were always there about patching issues and such... or even just stuff that isn't an issue anymore. I swear I see a lot of complaints but the things people cite seem like nothing new or ultra minor stuff that you could have cited all through Windows history.
titanix2 8y ago
I still have a Windows around for running Visual Studio and it seems the next iteration is resolute about making the GUI worst again (previous successful attempt at it was VS 2012).
- alkonaut 8y ago
  Are you talking about the 2019 RC? What did they do UI wise? Screenshots I have seen all show very minor cosmetic changes.
alkonaut 8y ago
I switched on my win10 box today, opened a shell and typed ”ssh otherbox” to ssh into my linux box. Unless we are having the “but telemetry” discussion (again) there are very few ways that 10 is worse than a previous version.
- pram 8y ago
  I don’t think Windows 10 is worse than its predecessors, but the start menu being full of advertisements and crapware on a fresh install is pretty shameless (especially after I’ve spent $200 on it)

You don't use GitHub or LinkedIn or Skype either? You might also rely on sites that are built with Microsoft technologies (Stack overflow for example) or find that your workplace gets by with Excel. It's hard to say you don't use their technologies.

OnlyRepliesToBS 8y ago
that sells the desire
bayulxc5 8y ago
I don't use github or linkedin. I don't use skype either... because Microsoft ruined it and everybody left (for business now I use Hangouts and for gaming now I use Discord).
- Bamafan 8y ago
  I'll bet you use Azure though (even if you don't realize it). I guarantee you use apps/websites/services that leverage Azure.
- yuy910616 8y ago
  that's clearly wrong. not everybody left. you left
  - VRay 8y ago
    Everyone I know quit using Skype too.. it's tough to have this argument without access to expensive market research reports, though More anecdotally, the only time I used Skype in the last few years was when I had a remote job interview with LINE. (Ironically, LINE's core product is a Skype competitor, and they refused to use it for the interview even though I said I'd rather stick with LINE and not install Skype. If that isn't a red flag, I don't know what is, haha)
20190129 8y ago
I agree with you, I often find I like Microsoft's services and subsidiary products (those you listed). I also use the crap out of Excel. But he's right Windows is taking a dive. And other Microsoft products. Example number 1: Excel has these cheesy glide animations that do nothing but slow down imports. I export a report from quickbooks to excel and if it's a large one it almost feels like Excel will crash just from processing so many animations. I tried turning it off, but it's not as easy as it looks.
bduerst 8y ago
Github is a recent acquisition, but Linkedin and Skype are not exactly shining examples.
ProAm 8y ago
> It's hard to say you don't use their technologies Use or rely on. I have to rely on Windows. Everything else you listed has acceptable replacements.
z3t4 8y ago
My wife just spent several hours making a Word document, then it refused to save ... It didn't even say why it couldn't save. She is a long time Windows and Word/Office user, and pretty good with computers. But she is starting to hate technology more and more.
timrichard 8y ago
> You might also rely on sites that are built with Microsoft technologies (Stack overflow for example) ... which is also reliant on HAProxy, ElasticSearch and Redis, but that part doesn't get quoted so much. https://stackexchange.com/performance https://stackexchange.com/performance

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago

Seconded. Back when Windows merely had the occasional bug, it was still a worthwhile tool for me. Now that it has mandatory telemetry and unavoidable updates (at least for non-enterprise users), the value proposition has gone into negative territory. I'm sure Microsoft has their reasons for doing this, but unfortunately it's clear that our goals are too misaligned.

partiallypro 8y ago

How are they ruining Windows? People have been saying this since XP (before SP1 or SP2, when everyone hated it.) Yet there's not much evidence to support it...they are actually doing some really cool things with Windows now like adding bash and having different flavor Linux subsystems. The main issue I've had is some lack of quality control since they let go tons of testers and used Insiders instead. That has not effected me personally, but it has become a public perception they need to clean up.

AnimalMuppet 8y ago
I'm not the one you're asking. But to me, the (most recent) way they ruined Windows was the new interface. I don't want to interact with my desktop via a phone/tablet interface. I don't want to use a touchscreen. I want to use only the keyboard and mouse. More: I don't want to use my computer as a media consumption device. So for me, all the new UI changes are counterproductive. But that's me. Others have different usage profiles; whether it's a net win or a net loss depends on the customer mix.
- duxup 8y ago
  But all the cards and the tablet interface stuff ... is all side stuff that you don't need to use? At least I hardly ever see any sign of it. Am I missing something? There was an issue a LONG time ago when the tiles were more front and center but they dumped that a while ago.
  - markbnj 8y ago
    I agree with you generally but it's not just the tiles. They also made a lot of changes around how settings and other features are accessed to make them more touch friendly, and if you're just trying to get in and change a thing it's often more work to get to it. There are ways to work around almost all of it but its just sort of ongoing evidence of a design direction that didn't really pan out for the mobile users it was intended to serve, and makes life a little harder for technical desktop users. These days I only use Windows 10 for gaming and to host my ubuntu laptop over VNC. If it weren't for games/steam I'd probably uninstall it.

sovnade 8y ago

There are for sure features that I disagree with in Win10 like telemetry and automatic reboots while I'm using the computer (which has been resolved), but it's a far stretch to say they're ruining windows. I don't think I've ever had a full crash on my current Win10 box that I use daily. Driver issues are almost nonexistent. It does everything I need it to without issue. I'm not sure what else I would want from an OS.

will_pseudonym 8y ago
I have an annoying recurring bug in explorer.exe where, when playing full-screen media, the task bar is shown, obscuring the bottom of the content. I have a batch file on my desktop to kill/start explorer.exe it happens so often. That type of issue never happened in Windows 7/XP.
rjf72 8y ago
How about not having spyware? I don't think we should use the word "telemetry" when we do actually mean spyware. Telemetry, in connotation, is data used for diagnostic, maintenance, and 'real' quality assurance. I opt-in to various forms of telemetry for a number of different pieces of software I use. I'm happy to help other developers create a better product. What Microsoft is doing goes far above any reasonable notion of telemetry alone. Disable all telemetry options so much as you can. And then setup a sniffer, run Wireshark, etc on your traffic. Windows 10 is a disaster. It is constantly phoning back home, through a wide array of different addresses, sending back unknown data to Microsoft. It's safe to assume that, at the minimum, they're building extensive profiles on users which, in the most benign case, will be used to facilitate targeted advertising and messaging. Aside from that there are also technical issues with the OS such as treating production deployment as sending out code seemingly just after it passes the 'it compiled' standard of quality assurance. An update for Windows 10 in April of last year was one of several that has resulted in bricking numerous machines. Another update a few months back was deleting files on users machines resulting in Microsoft having to roll back the update, and so on. Not only is this itself all completely unacceptable, but I think it also reflects the new direction of the company. Even if you might be willing to tolerate their actions, and failures, today I think this reflects a new Microsoft. Put another way I think these issues are likely to become more substantial, and not less, as time progresses. --- As an aside, I say this all as a Windows 'enthusiast.' My 'native' environment is Visual Studio working in .NET, C# in particular. I've also been using Windows since 3.1, but Windows 10 is simply unacceptable to me as an operating system. I'm still happily running Windows 7, which also has no issues with stability/drivers. The day Microsoft decides to try to make Visual Studio Windows 10 only is the day my Ubuntu partition gets bumped to the top of the boot order. So yeah, at least from my perspective, Windows under Nadella has indeed been destroyed.

duxup 8y ago

I've seen a lot of "Windows ruined" stuff, articles and such, but they always seem like issues that were always there about patching issues and such... or even just stuff that isn't an issue anymore. I swear I see a lot of complaints but the things people cite seem like nothing new or ultra minor stuff that you could have cited all through Windows history.

titanix2 8y ago

I still have a Windows around for running Visual Studio and it seems the next iteration is resolute about making the GUI worst again (previous successful attempt at it was VS 2012).

alkonaut 8y ago
Are you talking about the 2019 RC? What did they do UI wise? Screenshots I have seen all show very minor cosmetic changes.

alkonaut 8y ago

I switched on my win10 box today, opened a shell and typed ”ssh otherbox” to ssh into my linux box. Unless we are having the “but telemetry” discussion (again) there are very few ways that 10 is worse than a previous version.

pram 8y ago
I don’t think Windows 10 is worse than its predecessors, but the start menu being full of advertisements and crapware on a fresh install is pretty shameless (especially after I’ve spent $200 on it)