16 ms·

A lot of online communities today are unbearable tho as everything's become so politicised. It started really wildly happening around 2013-2014 where no communi

A lot of online communities today are unbearable tho as everything's become so politicised. It started really wildly happening around 2013-2014 where no community was to remain a zone without some minority of users politicising it for attention. It was probably something that also happened before that but it somehow became really prevalent, at least. And often that took the fun out of it. I kind of think fondly of those times. Now of course this is just anecdotal, but that's what I've experienced in most communities I used to frequent and perhaps lots of other people here did too. In fact, it's something I really appreciate here on HN, the tone of discussions is rather pleasant and on topic and it's very rare to see people intentionally driving it into the ground, although in contrast to something like a Facebook group it's a lot less personal.

weinzierl 8y ago
>It started really wildly happening around 2013-2014 where no community was to remain a zone without some minority of users politicising it for attention. It was actually in September 2013 when it started ... or was it September 1993 ...? Uh, oh, how time flies, never mind.
- beezischillin 8y ago
  Time does indeed fly. I was born in 1993 :)
- adfm 8y ago
  September 1993 sounds reasonable. https://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/22/us/dispute-over-computer-messages-free-speech-or-sex-harassment.html https://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/22/us/dispute-over-computer-...
- cvwright 8y ago
  Eternal September may have started in 1993, but it's arguable that we've been at a whole other level of badness since 2016 -- "Eternal November".
rootusrootus 8y ago
As someone who has been interacting online since FidoNet was a thing, I have to say ... this is a problem as old as humans. There were plenty of politicized discussions back then, plenty of contentious people, plenty of trolls. In some ways the vibe was different, but really, it wasn't better. Or worse, to be honest.
- wolco 8y ago
  The real names make it worse.
tenpies 8y ago
I distinctly remember a discussion about Something Awful's slogan ("the internet makes you stupid") and how it was actually a keen observation about the internet. Pre-internet you would have people with really bad ideas. These people were so obvious to any normal person that bad thinkers generally shut up because sharing their bad ideas meant being socially ostracized or at least getting shunned. But then you add the internet, and all these radically bad thinkers find each other and their ideas almost seem normal amongst their type. They not only normalize bad thinking, but they also push for even more radically bad thinking in an effort to out-do each other. End result, you end up with a vociferous contingent of town idiots who don't realize they are town idiots because they only listen to fellow town idiots. Add advertising companies who function on a metrics-first approach, and those town idiots dictate how companies act.
- Baeocystin 8y ago
  This SMBC from 2013 illustrates the issue as well as anything. And all joking aside, I think it is 100% accurate, and a real problem that we don't yet have a solution for. https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-04-07 https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-04-07
  - bargl 8y ago
    So true. We need more people to be loud in the center.
    - sparkie 8y ago
      There are people being loud in the center who are still incorrectly labelled as "far right" or some other meaningless label and targeted for deplatforming. Unfortunately, politicization is inevitable when double standards exist in moderation. If you're going to have rules, they need to be applied evenly. We've seen that several of the internet giants are incredibly inconsistent in their approaches to banning content or users from the two sides of the political spectrum. Nowhere seems to be safe, including HN.
      - 8y ago
komali2 8y ago
>without some minority of users politicising it for attention What does "politicising" mean, and how do you know their motives? If you mean what I think you mean, i.e. women for example standing up for their right to be included in historically male-led organizations (say, a SDR club), I must admit skepticism - perhaps what you are witnessing isn't "doing something for attention," but instead "demanding to be treated as an equal?"
- dmurray 8y ago
  > What does "politicising" mean, and how do you know their motives? Example right here. For better or worse, some people will try to make everything about their pet issues. It doesn't really matter if their motives are good when every single discussion gets dragged into the 2010's version of Godwin's Law.
  - komali2 8y ago
    ... The OP gave no example, so I had to make a guess. In my experience, people that complain about "groups getting politicized" generally mean "a minority joined and was upset when we weren't inclusive." Perhaps I should have simply left it at the question, but the internet is a frustrating place to have dialogues like that - clarifying every tiny point before running out of space for a counter argument.
    - ehnto 8y ago
      He meant you were the example. I am not saying it was your intention, but the way you mentioned a particular issue and then added your opinion on the issue in your comment is one way people inject their beliefs into otherwise unrelated conversation. I know you needed an example to make your point, but the grandparent was trying to make a point of your comment.
borgidiom 8y ago
I remember it always being political. Back in 2002 most of the posts in the Command and Conquer Generals forums where various views on if Bush should invade Iraq or not. That community died the day EA banned political discussions.
- spiritcat 8y ago
  The day EA killed Westwood Chat and it's active community and replaced it with their hideous in-game matchmaking was I think the day the internet stopped being fun and weird for me. Or I maybe just lost my internet innocence, seeing Big Game come in and decide on a whim to toss in the bin the place where I spent most of my after school time. Also where I learned how to un-ban myself by editing the right registry key. :D
komali2 8y ago
>A lot of online communities today are unbearable tho as everything's become so politicised. It started really wildly happening around 2013-2014 where no community was to remain a zone without some minority of users politicising it for attention Can you help me understand your argument by giving examples of what this means? What is "politicising" and what communities have you seened ruined by "some minority of users politicising it for attention?"
- dlivingston 8y ago
  > what communities have you seened ruined by "some minority of users politicising it for attention?" Twitter (and to a lesser extent, Tumblr).
  - komali2 8y ago
    How so?
    - dlivingston 8y ago
      IMHO (in Twitter's case), it is very much an echo chamber where dissenting opinions are not tolerated.
      - komali2 8y ago
        Just exploring the subject here, please don't feel attacked: what would "not be tolerated" mean, and what sort of opinions could be considered "dissenting?"
- grkvlt 8y ago
  It seems like "politicising a community" means "people with ideas I disagree with have joined" or something similar.
- NietTim 8y ago
  A recent example from reddit: An influential person in a small community came out as trans and preferred to live as a women now. The OP who wanted to bring this to the attention of the community and wrote: > Given the misogynistic reputation that the community has, I think it would be good for people to go out of our way to send a message or say something about how her coming out is a positive thing. Que the comments being about this inflammatory statement and not about what the post was meant to be about, and for good reason. People that criticised OP were met with angry replies and stuff like this: > Lotsa male white fragility all over this thread. 2 hours later another user made a solid post highlighting nothing but her, her achievements and detailing just how influential she has been and still is for the community, the comments were nothing but praise, positivity and celebration. IMO a pretty good example of something being politicised for no reason and directly being a detriment to the community.
ryan-allen 8y ago
> In fact, it's something I really appreciate here on HN, the tone of discussions is rather pleasant and on topic I've been a member here since 2008, 10 odd years! It has been quite consistent, and an almost daily visit for me since joining. I don't know how they do it but I am glad that they do.

weinzierl 8y ago

>It started really wildly happening around 2013-2014 where no community was to remain a zone without some minority of users politicising it for attention. It was actually in September 2013 when it started ... or was it September 1993 ...? Uh, oh, how time flies, never mind.

beezischillin 8y ago
Time does indeed fly. I was born in 1993 :)
adfm 8y ago
September 1993 sounds reasonable. https://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/22/us/dispute-over-computer-messages-free-speech-or-sex-harassment.html https://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/22/us/dispute-over-computer-...
cvwright 8y ago
Eternal September may have started in 1993, but it's arguable that we've been at a whole other level of badness since 2016 -- "Eternal November".

rootusrootus 8y ago

As someone who has been interacting online since FidoNet was a thing, I have to say ... this is a problem as old as humans. There were plenty of politicized discussions back then, plenty of contentious people, plenty of trolls. In some ways the vibe was different, but really, it wasn't better. Or worse, to be honest.

wolco 8y ago
The real names make it worse.

tenpies 8y ago

I distinctly remember a discussion about Something Awful's slogan ("the internet makes you stupid") and how it was actually a keen observation about the internet. Pre-internet you would have people with really bad ideas. These people were so obvious to any normal person that bad thinkers generally shut up because sharing their bad ideas meant being socially ostracized or at least getting shunned. But then you add the internet, and all these radically bad thinkers find each other and their ideas almost seem normal amongst their type. They not only normalize bad thinking, but they also push for even more radically bad thinking in an effort to out-do each other. End result, you end up with a vociferous contingent of town idiots who don't realize they are town idiots because they only listen to fellow town idiots. Add advertising companies who function on a metrics-first approach, and those town idiots dictate how companies act.

Baeocystin 8y ago
This SMBC from 2013 illustrates the issue as well as anything. And all joking aside, I think it is 100% accurate, and a real problem that we don't yet have a solution for. https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-04-07 https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-04-07
- bargl 8y ago
  So true. We need more people to be loud in the center.
  - sparkie 8y ago
    There are people being loud in the center who are still incorrectly labelled as "far right" or some other meaningless label and targeted for deplatforming. Unfortunately, politicization is inevitable when double standards exist in moderation. If you're going to have rules, they need to be applied evenly. We've seen that several of the internet giants are incredibly inconsistent in their approaches to banning content or users from the two sides of the political spectrum. Nowhere seems to be safe, including HN.
    - 8y ago

komali2 8y ago

>without some minority of users politicising it for attention What does "politicising" mean, and how do you know their motives? If you mean what I think you mean, i.e. women for example standing up for their right to be included in historically male-led organizations (say, a SDR club), I must admit skepticism - perhaps what you are witnessing isn't "doing something for attention," but instead "demanding to be treated as an equal?"

dmurray 8y ago
> What does "politicising" mean, and how do you know their motives? Example right here. For better or worse, some people will try to make everything about their pet issues. It doesn't really matter if their motives are good when every single discussion gets dragged into the 2010's version of Godwin's Law.
- komali2 8y ago
  ... The OP gave no example, so I had to make a guess. In my experience, people that complain about "groups getting politicized" generally mean "a minority joined and was upset when we weren't inclusive." Perhaps I should have simply left it at the question, but the internet is a frustrating place to have dialogues like that - clarifying every tiny point before running out of space for a counter argument.
  - ehnto 8y ago
    He meant you were the example. I am not saying it was your intention, but the way you mentioned a particular issue and then added your opinion on the issue in your comment is one way people inject their beliefs into otherwise unrelated conversation. I know you needed an example to make your point, but the grandparent was trying to make a point of your comment.

borgidiom 8y ago

I remember it always being political. Back in 2002 most of the posts in the Command and Conquer Generals forums where various views on if Bush should invade Iraq or not. That community died the day EA banned political discussions.

spiritcat 8y ago
The day EA killed Westwood Chat and it's active community and replaced it with their hideous in-game matchmaking was I think the day the internet stopped being fun and weird for me. Or I maybe just lost my internet innocence, seeing Big Game come in and decide on a whim to toss in the bin the place where I spent most of my after school time. Also where I learned how to un-ban myself by editing the right registry key. :D

komali2 8y ago

>A lot of online communities today are unbearable tho as everything's become so politicised. It started really wildly happening around 2013-2014 where no community was to remain a zone without some minority of users politicising it for attention Can you help me understand your argument by giving examples of what this means? What is "politicising" and what communities have you seened ruined by "some minority of users politicising it for attention?"

dlivingston 8y ago
> what communities have you seened ruined by "some minority of users politicising it for attention?" Twitter (and to a lesser extent, Tumblr).
- komali2 8y ago
  How so?
  - dlivingston 8y ago
    IMHO (in Twitter's case), it is very much an echo chamber where dissenting opinions are not tolerated.
    - komali2 8y ago
      Just exploring the subject here, please don't feel attacked: what would "not be tolerated" mean, and what sort of opinions could be considered "dissenting?"
grkvlt 8y ago
It seems like "politicising a community" means "people with ideas I disagree with have joined" or something similar.
NietTim 8y ago
A recent example from reddit: An influential person in a small community came out as trans and preferred to live as a women now. The OP who wanted to bring this to the attention of the community and wrote: > Given the misogynistic reputation that the community has, I think it would be good for people to go out of our way to send a message or say something about how her coming out is a positive thing. Que the comments being about this inflammatory statement and not about what the post was meant to be about, and for good reason. People that criticised OP were met with angry replies and stuff like this: > Lotsa male white fragility all over this thread. 2 hours later another user made a solid post highlighting nothing but her, her achievements and detailing just how influential she has been and still is for the community, the comments were nothing but praise, positivity and celebration. IMO a pretty good example of something being politicised for no reason and directly being a detriment to the community.

ryan-allen 8y ago

> In fact, it's something I really appreciate here on HN, the tone of discussions is rather pleasant and on topic I've been a member here since 2008, 10 odd years! It has been quite consistent, and an almost daily visit for me since joining. I don't know how they do it but I am glad that they do.