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Foxconn Is Reconsidering Plan for Manufacturing in Wisconsin

230 points by mikek 8y ago

huebomont 8y ago
I will never get over how "reporting" seems to amount to publishing a bunch of quotes by people without assessing their credibility. Why give Wisconsin Republicans, noted bad actors, a free mouthpiece in this article at all, let alone without context for whether their comments about "economic uncertainty" under the Dem governor hold any water?
- wahern 8y ago
  Alternatively, the reporter is giving those Republicans rope to hang themselves. It all depends on how many people in the audience are capable of recognizing the bullsh*t for what it is. And don't forget, that number might be small today but could grow much larger down the road. One aspect of reporting is creating a record. Without a record there can be no accountability. One function of a newspaper article is to provide context for quotations, and in particular a timestamp.
  - huebomont 8y ago
    yes, but that can all be accomplished while also contextualizing their comments with the facts of the situation.
- shaki-dora 8y ago
  It’s a tenet of responsible journalism to allow those involved in a story to comment on it. Which is why mainstream news stories so often contain a line about “XY did not respond to a request for comments” or similar. While journalists do choose who to talk to when seeking, for example, experts in a certainty j field of science, politicians are regarded more as the holder of their office, and not evaluated individually. When they are lying or incompetent, the reader needs to be able to see so for themselves using the reported facts, I. e. “Show, don’t tell”. Anything else would rightfully be accused of editorializing.
  - huebomont 8y ago
    And I expect that the report would include those facts alongside the quote so I could make that decision. This does not. Readers are not going to go on their own investigation.
nimish 8y ago
They got their $4billion handout from Scott Walker and are predictably walking back on it. Corruption from the so-called party of "fiscal responsibility"
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  Actually, they didn't get it yet. That said, yes, there are already millions in "sunk costs" that have already been borne by the people of Wisconsin. But at a time like this, it's probably best not to let the "Sunk Cost Fallacy" get the better of you.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Cool. Let Wisconsin recoup those costs with tariffs (through the Federal gov) on Foxconn products crossing the US border.
    - trhway 8y ago
      >Let Wisconsin recoup those costs with tariffs (through the Federal gov) on Foxconn products crossing the US border. i.e. from US iPhone users. I'd prefer that Wisconsin bear the costs on their own - they would think better next time when electing people like Walker as the right to elect your representatives is free like speech not like beer. There is a reason California for example doesn't elect those "pro-business low taxes" self-styled magicians.
      - analog31 8y ago
        Electing a governor is one thing, and notably, we just elected a new one. But representatives are protected by gerrymandering and are thus not "elected" in a completely straightforward sense. At the very least, overturning the composition of the legislature could be a more complicated matter.
        magduf 8y ago
        Gerrymandering doesn't affect votes, it just affects how they're counted. The people of the state are still electing those representatives, the gerrymandering is just a mechanism whatever party is currently in power uses to give themselves an edge in staying in power a little longer. It's still up to the people to provide the votes for that party, and they do. Voting districts still have to be roughly equal in population (which is why they're redrawn periodically), so if that party stays in power, it's because a majority of the people in that state have voted for that party. As always, the people are getting the government they elected and that they deserve.
swozey 8y ago
This is a fantastic Podcast on the situation and what went down in Wisconsin. The NDA Foxconn made council members sign to where the council couldn't even talk to their citizens about it will really rub you the wrong way; https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/132-negative-mount-pleasant#episode-player https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/132-negative-mount-ple...
- dhh2106 8y ago
  Yes, and the stories of people getting completely screwed over to make way for Foxconn
- quizme2000 8y ago
  The 2 things that will make your blood boil is when the city counsel couldn't get some residents to sell their property b/c they had nowhere to go, they declared it blighted/contaminated and forced eviction into actual blighted homes. The second is the town took on a massive loan to buy all the land it needed, it will now default. The state of WI backed the town in the loan and will now have to pay out for this nonsense.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    >The 2 things that will make your blood boil is when the city counsel couldn't get some residents to sell their property b/c they had nowhere to go, they declared it blighted/contaminated and forced eviction into actual blighted homes. Not that it makes it less terrible but backhanded stuff like this is not uncommon at all. If you run a business in my state you basically give up your right to stand up to the state/local government about anything (because they will use its power of discretionary enforcement to destroy your business). If you're in the right you can win the head on fight (well, win it 10yr later in court, if that counts) but the government will always out flank you if they want something done but you are in their way. Sucks but it's reality.
  - magduf 8y ago
    These Wisconsin residents are getting the government they voted for.
bilbo0s 8y ago
I have freely admitted for a while now that Wisconsin is a fairly corrupt place. (And WEDC, the guys who came up with this, has been among the organizations I've pointed out the most.) That said, the more this Foxconn thing goes on, the more I realize how much we've been screwed over in Wisconsin by Walker and his cronies. The Foxconn thing never even sounded right from the outset. Four to five billion? To manufacture LCDs? I mean, I know I'm a bit more technically inclined than most people in Wisconsin, but didn't anyone stop and think for a second, "Hmmm... Wait? Isn't the future supposed to be OLED? This doesn't make any business sense for them????" Now these Foxconn guys come back with a story about "R&D"?????? I'm just saying, isn't their entire business model manufacturing other people's R&D? So the best you'd get is R&D to enhance their manufacturing processes maybe? Throw in a small chance at some business process R&D???? (I know, it's a stretch, but I'm trying to be generous.) Now again, I realize I'm a bit more technically inclined than most Wisconsinites, but does anyone else find it more reasonable to do that sort of R&D in places closer to your actual manufacturing? Even suspending that disbelief for a moment, you have to ask yourself why you'd need 13,000 people to do that? You don't. You'd just never do that if you owned Foxconn. This whole story just doesn't add up. Even from the start, it never did. How could Walker and his cronies have ever fallen for any of this?
- moate 8y ago
  I don't think "Joe the Average Wisconsinite" really had a say in this deal. Yes yes, elected officials are SUPPOSED to represent their constituents, but no number of people protesting outside his office is legally capable of stopping Walker and Co. from misrepresenting their interests while they're in office. And I mean, if there was some kind of quid pro quo between Foxcomm and Walker and Co., all the more reason for this not to benefit Joe Average.
  - yardie 8y ago
    They had a say. There was a recall election because of all the bullshit he had pulled before the Foxconn deal. Once it became clear he would keep his position he opened the spigot all the way up. In his mind he had the full support of Wisconsin voters.
- 8y ago
tibbydudeza 8y ago
Conned by the Fox.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
garettmd 8y ago
"new realities" = -60F wind chill
- rb808 8y ago
  Yeah lol I can imagine the Taiwanese execs used to a tropical climate getting off the plane thinking WTF.
m0zg 8y ago
Well, a lot of people had said this plant was a bad deal for Wisconsin when it was announced. So they can now rejoice.
- gnadx 8y ago
  Reveling in the suffering of gormless Wisconsinites is actually pretty good. They had their fun, electing Walker inexplicably, over and over again, despite the horrific things he did to that state and the rights of the people in it, and now the chickens are coming home to roost.
rhegart 8y ago
Crony capitalism, the Republicans here were awful. I hope others learn from the mistakes
- vernie 8y ago
  Now now, this is plain ole capitalism.
sizzzzlerz 8y ago
This whole sordid affair is so reminiscent of how wealthy sports team owners play cities against one another to see which of them is willing to finance the most of their billion dollar wet dreams. Las Vegas, I'm looking at you! And Phoenix, you're next. Seattle, well, it's too late. You've already be scammed. Invariably, its a classic case of socializing the costs and privatizing the profits.
- cr0sh 8y ago
  As someone who lives in Phoenix, I'm pretty certain it's too late for us as well...
djoldman 8y ago
See this news release by Mount Pleasant: "...The local development agreement stipulates that, if, for any reason, Foxconn’s investment on the campus falls short, the company remains obligated to support a minimum valuation for the project of $1.4 billion, which will more than pay for all public improvements and development costs for the project." https://www.mtpleasantwi.gov/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=219 https://www.mtpleasantwi.gov/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=219
- eps 8y ago
  Is there a timeframe on this obligation? And if the project is cancelled, it'd be logical that Foxconn will be limited to costs incurred to date. It's not like 1.4B is an open unconditional check.
rcchyssser 8y ago
No shit?
gnadx 8y ago
Wisconsin deserves this for its incredibly poor voting habits.
RobLach 8y ago
The numbers here are staggering. The state of Wisconsin under Scott Walker subsidized this project at a rate of $14,000-$19,000 per citizen, not including the environmental and infrastructural impacts. I wonder how much economic stimulus to existing businesses would be created by dropping $15k into everyone’s pocket.
- krrrh 8y ago
  > I wonder how much economic stimulus to existing businesses would be created by dropping $15k into everyone’s pocket. Probably not as much as just leaving $15k in everyone's pocket in the first place. It's really insane to think that they created a $60k liability for a family of 4.
- refurb 8y ago
  Giving a tax break to get a company to move to your state doesn’t cost you anything if not offering it means you get no new jobs.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    Basic game theory: you should always defect, because you’re always better off. Yet the ideal outcome happens when nobody defects. This is why the states should agree (or the Feds somehow impose restrictions) not to make these sorts of deals.
    - refurb 8y ago
      So what’s the incentive for governments to become more efficient, need less tax money and attract more business? I like the fact that states can choose to compete for companies.
      - mikeash 8y ago
        I’m not proposing to ban lower taxes, just company-specific deals like these. A state wants to have a more friendly business environment to attract companies? Great! Just don’t negotiate tax breaks for a single factory.
guard0g 8y ago
How many people here actually realize Foxconn is not a company from China, but from Taiwan?!!
- DoubleCribble 8y ago
  "Taiwan, officially the Republic of China"...[0] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
swebs 8y ago
I'm glad political posts are rarely brought up here, because this place can be every bit as insufferable as reddit.
helipad 8y ago
There was a good Reply All podcast episode about this story in early December: https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/132-negative-mount-pleasant https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/132-negative-mount-ple... The inevitably was sadly clear to all but those who had the power to make it happen.
- apetrovic 8y ago
  Also worth listening is a follow-up with the reporter (Sruthi Pinnamaneni) on The Verge podcast: https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/11/18136020/foxconn-wisconsin-deal-reply-all-vergecast-interview-sruthi-pinnamaneni https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/11/18136020/foxconn-wiscons...
harryh 8y ago
So a lot of people seem to be saying something along the lines of "Wisconsin spent 4+ billion and now they're getting nothing in return." But WI didn't write a 4 billion dollar check or anything. It was a promise of tax credits. If it turns out that Foxconn basically doesn't do anything in WI, then they won't make any money there so they won't owe any taxes so they won't use any of the credits. So the whole thing becomes a much ado about nothing sort of situation (aside, I suppose, from the big waste of time spent negotiating everything). Is this basically right, or am I misunderstanding something?
- mlindner 8y ago
  You're correct but don't let anything get in the way of ycombinator users blaming evil large corporations for problems. Most of the top posts appear to have not even read the article that was posted. The reason things have changed is because of knock-on effects from Huawei, IMO. Foxconn would be in a very similar situation if they had proceeded.
  - shaki-dora 8y ago
    I’m as willing to blame anything on big corporation as a Marxist flying United. But in this case I strongly feel responsibility lies with the state government, which should never have maneuvers itself into a position where it could be harmed in such a way. That’s what contracts are for, after all. HN was also harshly critical of Amazon’s HQ2 search/reality show and the willingness to subsidies successfull corporate giants with race-to-the-bottom tax incentives.
- cauthon 8y ago
  From what I understand, this isn't the case on two points. One, the incentive package includes hundreds of millions in construction (road building, utilities, etc) that would otherwise be unneeded and is being paid for out of pocket by the state government instead of Foxconn. Two, because Wisconsin doesn't have a corporate income tax, the subsidies would occur in the form of cash payments to Foxconn that the Walker administration claimed would be repaid via personal income taxes on the new Foxconn workers. And Wisconsin is on the hook for around ~$1B in cash regardless of Foxconn's actual investments. https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/29/18027032/foxconn-wisconsin-plant-jobs-deal-subsidy-governor-scott-walker https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/29/18027032/foxconn-wiscons...
sleevis 8y ago
I wonder if this is Foxconn's way of signaling to Trump that Foxconn wants the Wisconsin factory to be exempted from paying the new tariffs on imports of Chinese parts.
jtlienwis 8y ago
Corruption started its latest incarnation in Wisconsin with Tommy Thompson. Approved the state lottery which led to casinos ( Chicago mafia controlled). Now, almost every month their is a fiduciary in some county or city government that gets caught with their hands in the till because of their casino losses. As for Foxconn... I keep saying this. We have almost all of the tech you need here in Wisconsin (or the upper midwest) for making our own lcd industry. 3M in Menomone Wi makes the Vikuity backlight material. We have pc board manufacturing (TTMI) in Chippewa Falls. Lots of electronic design talent at companies like Cray and HPE. So. Get in line and order the LCD production equipment from Nikon in Japan and start making some. What exactly do you need a contract manufacturer like Foxconn for?
75dvtwin 8y ago
Not reconsidering anymore, Foxconn will be building Gen 6 LCD plant. Feb 1st, 2019 --- " Foxconn Technology Group said Friday it will indeed build a liquid crystal display manufacturing plant in Wisconsin, following talks between President Donald Trump and company CEO and Chairman Terry Gou. The Taiwan-based electronics manufacturer said it will move forward with construction of a so-called Generation 6 factory, or "fab," which typically produces screens for cellphones, tablets and small televisions. " --- https://eu.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2019/02/01/foxconn-now-says-indeed-build-lcd-factory-wisconsin/2744111002/ https://eu.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2019/02/01/foxc...
locopati 8y ago
If Foxconn can break the deal, why can't Wisconsin?

230 points by mikek 8y ago

I will never get over how "reporting" seems to amount to publishing a bunch of quotes by people without assessing their credibility. Why give Wisconsin Republicans, noted bad actors, a free mouthpiece in this article at all, let alone without context for whether their comments about "economic uncertainty" under the Dem governor hold any water?

wahern 8y ago
Alternatively, the reporter is giving those Republicans rope to hang themselves. It all depends on how many people in the audience are capable of recognizing the bullsh*t for what it is. And don't forget, that number might be small today but could grow much larger down the road. One aspect of reporting is creating a record. Without a record there can be no accountability. One function of a newspaper article is to provide context for quotations, and in particular a timestamp.
- huebomont 8y ago
  yes, but that can all be accomplished while also contextualizing their comments with the facts of the situation.
shaki-dora 8y ago
It’s a tenet of responsible journalism to allow those involved in a story to comment on it. Which is why mainstream news stories so often contain a line about “XY did not respond to a request for comments” or similar. While journalists do choose who to talk to when seeking, for example, experts in a certainty j field of science, politicians are regarded more as the holder of their office, and not evaluated individually. When they are lying or incompetent, the reader needs to be able to see so for themselves using the reported facts, I. e. “Show, don’t tell”. Anything else would rightfully be accused of editorializing.
- huebomont 8y ago
  And I expect that the report would include those facts alongside the quote so I could make that decision. This does not. Readers are not going to go on their own investigation.

nimish 8y ago

They got their $4billion handout from Scott Walker and are predictably walking back on it. Corruption from the so-called party of "fiscal responsibility"

bilbo0s 8y ago
Actually, they didn't get it yet. That said, yes, there are already millions in "sunk costs" that have already been borne by the people of Wisconsin. But at a time like this, it's probably best not to let the "Sunk Cost Fallacy" get the better of you.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Cool. Let Wisconsin recoup those costs with tariffs (through the Federal gov) on Foxconn products crossing the US border.
  - trhway 8y ago
    >Let Wisconsin recoup those costs with tariffs (through the Federal gov) on Foxconn products crossing the US border. i.e. from US iPhone users. I'd prefer that Wisconsin bear the costs on their own - they would think better next time when electing people like Walker as the right to elect your representatives is free like speech not like beer. There is a reason California for example doesn't elect those "pro-business low taxes" self-styled magicians.
    - analog31 8y ago
      Electing a governor is one thing, and notably, we just elected a new one. But representatives are protected by gerrymandering and are thus not "elected" in a completely straightforward sense. At the very least, overturning the composition of the legislature could be a more complicated matter.
      - magduf 8y ago
        Gerrymandering doesn't affect votes, it just affects how they're counted. The people of the state are still electing those representatives, the gerrymandering is just a mechanism whatever party is currently in power uses to give themselves an edge in staying in power a little longer. It's still up to the people to provide the votes for that party, and they do. Voting districts still have to be roughly equal in population (which is why they're redrawn periodically), so if that party stays in power, it's because a majority of the people in that state have voted for that party. As always, the people are getting the government they elected and that they deserve.

swozey 8y ago

This is a fantastic Podcast on the situation and what went down in Wisconsin. The NDA Foxconn made council members sign to where the council couldn't even talk to their citizens about it will really rub you the wrong way; https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/132-negative-mount-pleasant#episode-player https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/132-negative-mount-ple...

dhh2106 8y ago
Yes, and the stories of people getting completely screwed over to make way for Foxconn
quizme2000 8y ago
The 2 things that will make your blood boil is when the city counsel couldn't get some residents to sell their property b/c they had nowhere to go, they declared it blighted/contaminated and forced eviction into actual blighted homes. The second is the town took on a massive loan to buy all the land it needed, it will now default. The state of WI backed the town in the loan and will now have to pay out for this nonsense.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >The 2 things that will make your blood boil is when the city counsel couldn't get some residents to sell their property b/c they had nowhere to go, they declared it blighted/contaminated and forced eviction into actual blighted homes. Not that it makes it less terrible but backhanded stuff like this is not uncommon at all. If you run a business in my state you basically give up your right to stand up to the state/local government about anything (because they will use its power of discretionary enforcement to destroy your business). If you're in the right you can win the head on fight (well, win it 10yr later in court, if that counts) but the government will always out flank you if they want something done but you are in their way. Sucks but it's reality.
- magduf 8y ago
  These Wisconsin residents are getting the government they voted for.

bilbo0s 8y ago

I have freely admitted for a while now that Wisconsin is a fairly corrupt place. (And WEDC, the guys who came up with this, has been among the organizations I've pointed out the most.) That said, the more this Foxconn thing goes on, the more I realize how much we've been screwed over in Wisconsin by Walker and his cronies. The Foxconn thing never even sounded right from the outset. Four to five billion? To manufacture LCDs? I mean, I know I'm a bit more technically inclined than most people in Wisconsin, but didn't anyone stop and think for a second, "Hmmm... Wait? Isn't the future supposed to be OLED? This doesn't make any business sense for them????" Now these Foxconn guys come back with a story about "R&D"?????? I'm just saying, isn't their entire business model manufacturing other people's R&D? So the best you'd get is R&D to enhance their manufacturing processes maybe? Throw in a small chance at some business process R&D???? (I know, it's a stretch, but I'm trying to be generous.) Now again, I realize I'm a bit more technically inclined than most Wisconsinites, but does anyone else find it more reasonable to do that sort of R&D in places closer to your actual manufacturing? Even suspending that disbelief for a moment, you have to ask yourself why you'd need 13,000 people to do that? You don't. You'd just never do that if you owned Foxconn. This whole story just doesn't add up. Even from the start, it never did. How could Walker and his cronies have ever fallen for any of this?

moate 8y ago
I don't think "Joe the Average Wisconsinite" really had a say in this deal. Yes yes, elected officials are SUPPOSED to represent their constituents, but no number of people protesting outside his office is legally capable of stopping Walker and Co. from misrepresenting their interests while they're in office. And I mean, if there was some kind of quid pro quo between Foxcomm and Walker and Co., all the more reason for this not to benefit Joe Average.
- yardie 8y ago
  They had a say. There was a recall election because of all the bullshit he had pulled before the Foxconn deal. Once it became clear he would keep his position he opened the spigot all the way up. In his mind he had the full support of Wisconsin voters.
8y ago

tibbydudeza 8y ago

Conned by the Fox.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

garettmd 8y ago

"new realities" = -60F wind chill

rb808 8y ago
Yeah lol I can imagine the Taiwanese execs used to a tropical climate getting off the plane thinking WTF.

m0zg 8y ago

Well, a lot of people had said this plant was a bad deal for Wisconsin when it was announced. So they can now rejoice.

gnadx 8y ago
Reveling in the suffering of gormless Wisconsinites is actually pretty good. They had their fun, electing Walker inexplicably, over and over again, despite the horrific things he did to that state and the rights of the people in it, and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

rhegart 8y ago

Crony capitalism, the Republicans here were awful. I hope others learn from the mistakes

vernie 8y ago
Now now, this is plain ole capitalism.

sizzzzlerz 8y ago

This whole sordid affair is so reminiscent of how wealthy sports team owners play cities against one another to see which of them is willing to finance the most of their billion dollar wet dreams. Las Vegas, I'm looking at you! And Phoenix, you're next. Seattle, well, it's too late. You've already be scammed. Invariably, its a classic case of socializing the costs and privatizing the profits.

cr0sh 8y ago
As someone who lives in Phoenix, I'm pretty certain it's too late for us as well...

djoldman 8y ago

See this news release by Mount Pleasant: "...The local development agreement stipulates that, if, for any reason, Foxconn’s investment on the campus falls short, the company remains obligated to support a minimum valuation for the project of $1.4 billion, which will more than pay for all public improvements and development costs for the project." https://www.mtpleasantwi.gov/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=219 https://www.mtpleasantwi.gov/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=219

eps 8y ago
Is there a timeframe on this obligation? And if the project is cancelled, it'd be logical that Foxconn will be limited to costs incurred to date. It's not like 1.4B is an open unconditional check.

rcchyssser 8y ago

No shit?

gnadx 8y ago

Wisconsin deserves this for its incredibly poor voting habits.

RobLach 8y ago

The numbers here are staggering. The state of Wisconsin under Scott Walker subsidized this project at a rate of $14,000-$19,000 per citizen, not including the environmental and infrastructural impacts. I wonder how much economic stimulus to existing businesses would be created by dropping $15k into everyone’s pocket.

krrrh 8y ago
> I wonder how much economic stimulus to existing businesses would be created by dropping $15k into everyone’s pocket. Probably not as much as just leaving $15k in everyone's pocket in the first place. It's really insane to think that they created a $60k liability for a family of 4.
refurb 8y ago
Giving a tax break to get a company to move to your state doesn’t cost you anything if not offering it means you get no new jobs.
- mikeash 8y ago
  Basic game theory: you should always defect, because you’re always better off. Yet the ideal outcome happens when nobody defects. This is why the states should agree (or the Feds somehow impose restrictions) not to make these sorts of deals.
  - refurb 8y ago
    So what’s the incentive for governments to become more efficient, need less tax money and attract more business? I like the fact that states can choose to compete for companies.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      I’m not proposing to ban lower taxes, just company-specific deals like these. A state wants to have a more friendly business environment to attract companies? Great! Just don’t negotiate tax breaks for a single factory.

guard0g 8y ago

How many people here actually realize Foxconn is not a company from China, but from Taiwan?!!

DoubleCribble 8y ago
"Taiwan, officially the Republic of China"...[0] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan

swebs 8y ago

I'm glad political posts are rarely brought up here, because this place can be every bit as insufferable as reddit.

helipad 8y ago

There was a good Reply All podcast episode about this story in early December: https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/132-negative-mount-pleasant https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/132-negative-mount-ple... The inevitably was sadly clear to all but those who had the power to make it happen.

apetrovic 8y ago
Also worth listening is a follow-up with the reporter (Sruthi Pinnamaneni) on The Verge podcast: https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/11/18136020/foxconn-wisconsin-deal-reply-all-vergecast-interview-sruthi-pinnamaneni https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/11/18136020/foxconn-wiscons...

harryh 8y ago

So a lot of people seem to be saying something along the lines of "Wisconsin spent 4+ billion and now they're getting nothing in return." But WI didn't write a 4 billion dollar check or anything. It was a promise of tax credits. If it turns out that Foxconn basically doesn't do anything in WI, then they won't make any money there so they won't owe any taxes so they won't use any of the credits. So the whole thing becomes a much ado about nothing sort of situation (aside, I suppose, from the big waste of time spent negotiating everything). Is this basically right, or am I misunderstanding something?

mlindner 8y ago
You're correct but don't let anything get in the way of ycombinator users blaming evil large corporations for problems. Most of the top posts appear to have not even read the article that was posted. The reason things have changed is because of knock-on effects from Huawei, IMO. Foxconn would be in a very similar situation if they had proceeded.
- shaki-dora 8y ago
  I’m as willing to blame anything on big corporation as a Marxist flying United. But in this case I strongly feel responsibility lies with the state government, which should never have maneuvers itself into a position where it could be harmed in such a way. That’s what contracts are for, after all. HN was also harshly critical of Amazon’s HQ2 search/reality show and the willingness to subsidies successfull corporate giants with race-to-the-bottom tax incentives.
cauthon 8y ago
From what I understand, this isn't the case on two points. One, the incentive package includes hundreds of millions in construction (road building, utilities, etc) that would otherwise be unneeded and is being paid for out of pocket by the state government instead of Foxconn. Two, because Wisconsin doesn't have a corporate income tax, the subsidies would occur in the form of cash payments to Foxconn that the Walker administration claimed would be repaid via personal income taxes on the new Foxconn workers. And Wisconsin is on the hook for around ~$1B in cash regardless of Foxconn's actual investments. https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/29/18027032/foxconn-wisconsin-plant-jobs-deal-subsidy-governor-scott-walker https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/29/18027032/foxconn-wiscons...

sleevis 8y ago

I wonder if this is Foxconn's way of signaling to Trump that Foxconn wants the Wisconsin factory to be exempted from paying the new tariffs on imports of Chinese parts.

jtlienwis 8y ago

Corruption started its latest incarnation in Wisconsin with Tommy Thompson. Approved the state lottery which led to casinos ( Chicago mafia controlled). Now, almost every month their is a fiduciary in some county or city government that gets caught with their hands in the till because of their casino losses. As for Foxconn... I keep saying this. We have almost all of the tech you need here in Wisconsin (or the upper midwest) for making our own lcd industry. 3M in Menomone Wi makes the Vikuity backlight material. We have pc board manufacturing (TTMI) in Chippewa Falls. Lots of electronic design talent at companies like Cray and HPE. So. Get in line and order the LCD production equipment from Nikon in Japan and start making some. What exactly do you need a contract manufacturer like Foxconn for?

75dvtwin 8y ago

Not reconsidering anymore, Foxconn will be building Gen 6 LCD plant. Feb 1st, 2019 --- " Foxconn Technology Group said Friday it will indeed build a liquid crystal display manufacturing plant in Wisconsin, following talks between President Donald Trump and company CEO and Chairman Terry Gou. The Taiwan-based electronics manufacturer said it will move forward with construction of a so-called Generation 6 factory, or "fab," which typically produces screens for cellphones, tablets and small televisions. " --- https://eu.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2019/02/01/foxconn-now-says-indeed-build-lcd-factory-wisconsin/2744111002/ https://eu.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2019/02/01/foxc...

locopati 8y ago

If Foxconn can break the deal, why can't Wisconsin?