4 ms·

This isn't uncommon or new. Many states allow for tips to offset wages, even if wages fall below the minimum wage. Some states even have a separate minimum wage

This isn't uncommon or new. Many states allow for tips to offset wages, even if wages fall below the minimum wage. Some states even have a separate minimum wage for tipper workers that is below the standard minimum wage. If you want to blame someone, I suggest looking for the actual culprit and not a law-abiding company. This has little to do with Instacart and everything to do with state wage laws.

glhaynes 8y ago
I'm definitely in favor of improving the laws, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't criticize a company's policy, too, even if it's legal.
NegativeLatency 8y ago
There is a larger problem, but that doesn't absolve Instacart (or any other company) in this matter.
jwalton 8y ago
Washington state appears to not be such a state: https://www.minimum-wage.org/washington/tipped-employee-minimum-wage https://www.minimum-wage.org/washington/tipped-employee-mini...
chatmasta 8y ago
Yes, this is common in the restaurant industry. But a few differences: (1) Tips are expected in the restaurant industry (2) Waitstaff knows what they're signing up for (3) The restaurant does not adjust wages after tips have been received
- Finnucane 8y ago
  For many years, we've been in the habit of leaving restaurant tips in cash, because of various reports that restaurant managers would basically take card fees out of the tip. I recall hearing more recently that there has been some effort to crack down on that practice, but still, old habits.
- Zecar 8y ago
  > (3) The restaurant does not adjust wages after tips have been received In many cases they do. If you receive zero tips for a shift, they are obligated to pay out minimum wage. If you receive $200 in tips for a shift, they pay out a lower figure, usually around $2.
  - jonathlee 8y ago
    This must be a new thing or only apply to certain states/cities. I've never saw this happen back when I was doing low wage work.
    - stonogo 8y ago
      This has been United States federal law since 1938.
  - jakelazaroff 8y ago
    A tipped employee must receive at least the tipped minimum wage before considering tips, and the normal minimum wage after considering tips. The only adjustment an employer is allowed to make is to increase an employee's base wage if the base wage + tips is less than the normal minimum wage. In no case can the base wage be less than the tipped minimum wage. The people delivering here are "contractors", not employees, so this doesn't actually apply to them; what Instacart is doing here is merely reprehensible, as opposed to illegal.
staticautomatic 8y ago
Or you could blame them for not doing the right thing, regardless of the law.
lixue 8y ago
This was posted by "Working Washington", so it seems reasonable to look at Washington state law: It requires tipped employees to be paid minimum wage. So does the rest of the west coast, including California (where Instacart has it's HQ). https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm It is, of course, entirely possible that the worker in question is not on the west coast, but Instacart is still welcome to pay a fair wage even if not required to by law, and Instacart should certainly avoid lying about their business practices either way (from the article: "Even Instacart seems to know how messed up it is to pay workers less when they get tipped more — which is why they’ve denied the practice when speaking to reporters at Business Insider & the Miami Herald.")
- kevin_b_er 8y ago
  Washington state law does not apply. All of the State of Washington laws and constitution are fully invalidated and superseded by the American Arbitration Act.
  - DATACOMMANDER 8y ago
    Let’s hope that’s tested in court.
- donarb 8y ago
  > It is, of course, entirely possible that the worker in question is not on the west coast The receipt was for a store named Wegmans. Those stores are located on the East coast (New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey).
- lupire 8y ago
  Are "contractors" covered by employee wage law?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jmull 8y ago
Just because the law allows it doesn’t mean a company must do it. It may be legal for instacart to take the tip money but it’s their decision to do so and they deserve the blame. It’s wrong because the people paying the tip generally believe it goes to the person providing the service, not to the company. And it subverts the purpose, which is to incent and reward good personal service. So the company ends up screwing their workers, deceiving their customers and disincentizing good service. Legal, but wrong and stupid.
vernie 8y ago
"Once something has been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral." -Reverend Lovejoy

glhaynes 8y ago

I'm definitely in favor of improving the laws, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't criticize a company's policy, too, even if it's legal.

NegativeLatency 8y ago

There is a larger problem, but that doesn't absolve Instacart (or any other company) in this matter.

jwalton 8y ago

Washington state appears to not be such a state: https://www.minimum-wage.org/washington/tipped-employee-minimum-wage https://www.minimum-wage.org/washington/tipped-employee-mini...

chatmasta 8y ago

Yes, this is common in the restaurant industry. But a few differences: (1) Tips are expected in the restaurant industry (2) Waitstaff knows what they're signing up for (3) The restaurant does not adjust wages after tips have been received

Finnucane 8y ago
For many years, we've been in the habit of leaving restaurant tips in cash, because of various reports that restaurant managers would basically take card fees out of the tip. I recall hearing more recently that there has been some effort to crack down on that practice, but still, old habits.
Zecar 8y ago
> (3) The restaurant does not adjust wages after tips have been received In many cases they do. If you receive zero tips for a shift, they are obligated to pay out minimum wage. If you receive $200 in tips for a shift, they pay out a lower figure, usually around $2.
- jonathlee 8y ago
  This must be a new thing or only apply to certain states/cities. I've never saw this happen back when I was doing low wage work.
  - stonogo 8y ago
    This has been United States federal law since 1938.
- jakelazaroff 8y ago
  A tipped employee must receive at least the tipped minimum wage before considering tips, and the normal minimum wage after considering tips. The only adjustment an employer is allowed to make is to increase an employee's base wage if the base wage + tips is less than the normal minimum wage. In no case can the base wage be less than the tipped minimum wage. The people delivering here are "contractors", not employees, so this doesn't actually apply to them; what Instacart is doing here is merely reprehensible, as opposed to illegal.

staticautomatic 8y ago

Or you could blame them for not doing the right thing, regardless of the law.

lixue 8y ago

This was posted by "Working Washington", so it seems reasonable to look at Washington state law: It requires tipped employees to be paid minimum wage. So does the rest of the west coast, including California (where Instacart has it's HQ). https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm It is, of course, entirely possible that the worker in question is not on the west coast, but Instacart is still welcome to pay a fair wage even if not required to by law, and Instacart should certainly avoid lying about their business practices either way (from the article: "Even Instacart seems to know how messed up it is to pay workers less when they get tipped more — which is why they’ve denied the practice when speaking to reporters at Business Insider & the Miami Herald.")

kevin_b_er 8y ago
Washington state law does not apply. All of the State of Washington laws and constitution are fully invalidated and superseded by the American Arbitration Act.
- DATACOMMANDER 8y ago
  Let’s hope that’s tested in court.
donarb 8y ago
> It is, of course, entirely possible that the worker in question is not on the west coast The receipt was for a store named Wegmans. Those stores are located on the East coast (New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey).
lupire 8y ago
Are "contractors" covered by employee wage law?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

jmull 8y ago

Just because the law allows it doesn’t mean a company must do it. It may be legal for instacart to take the tip money but it’s their decision to do so and they deserve the blame. It’s wrong because the people paying the tip generally believe it goes to the person providing the service, not to the company. And it subverts the purpose, which is to incent and reward good personal service. So the company ends up screwing their workers, deceiving their customers and disincentizing good service. Legal, but wrong and stupid.

vernie 8y ago

"Once something has been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral." -Reverend Lovejoy