4 ms·

If Oracle wins, it will just solidify my resolve to never use proprietary languages, EVER.

by umvi 8y ago

BossingAround 8y ago
Luckily, Java is fully open source now, with OpenJDK. I concur though with never using proprietary languages (which is a part of me not using C#--of course, that is now also open source, but C# is still kinda bad on Linux afaik). Edit: _sigh_ The downvotes without any reason hurt. See [1]. Since OpenJDK is GPL v2, and since TCK tests have been open sourced and Java EE given to Eclipse, I would call the Java ecosystem fully open source. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong of course. [1] https://openjdk.java.net/legal/gplv2+ce.html https://openjdk.java.net/legal/gplv2+ce.html
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- shawnz 8y ago
  OpenJDK is an open source implementation of the Java API. However the question here is about the openness of the Java API itself, not any particular implementation of it. Google already uses a totally separate implementation which is different from both Oracle Java AND OpenJDK.
  - BossingAround 8y ago
    Does that make Java/OpenJDK any less open source? If I take OpenJDK and start selling it, how could Oracle get me if OpenJDK is GPL? We're not talking about re-implementing the JDK/JRE spec; the author mentioned he/she wants to use only open source languages...
fixermark 8y ago
Unfortunately, the scope of the case is broader than proprietary languages. It doesn't matter what language you use---if you copy an API (including, IANAL-but-I-assume, recapitulating that API in an entirely different language), you're at risk. This covers a plethora of use-cases.
- fancyfish 8y ago
  Can anyone elaborate how this could impact tools such as GNU Octave? It would fall under this classification, right?
  - fixermark 8y ago
    if Octave shares a bunch of function signatures with MATLAB, yes, it would be at risk for a copyright claim.
    - DoctorOetker 8y ago
      what about instruction "signatures"? i.e. the machine instruction sets? every compiler is potentially performing millions of counts of copyright and or license violations on a large scale?
  - codinger 8y ago
    I would like to know if it impacts mathematics and scientific libraries for python that I use in lieu of MatLab.
kodablah 8y ago
What is a proprietary language to you? Java? Then you will have a hard time using many languages since it is open source and copyrighted by its owner like many languages.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 8y ago
  A proprietary language in this context is one that does not have an ISO standard.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 8y ago
Yeah, using an ISO standard language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Programming_languages_with_an_ISO_standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Programming_languages...) avoids this problem. There a spec is specifically produced so that there can be multiple implementations.
- fixermark 8y ago
  But regardless of what language you use, this legal precedent is saying if you, for example, copy Twitter's RESTful API to create your own messaging service where all the existing Twitter clients can change a few constants and adopt you as a target, Twitter could sue. That's not something ISO protects against (unless there's an international standard for asymmetric message services you can design against).
cmiles74 8y ago
I suspect that the implementation of any API would come under the shadow of this ruling. For instance, replacing a proprietary product with an open-source variant that has the same API would also be illegal or subject to licensing fees. In my opinion, this will be bigger than proprietary languages and cover drop-in replacements for pretty much any proprietary code, thus providing yet another way to lock customers into a particular product.

If Oracle wins, it will just solidify my resolve to never use proprietary languages, EVER.

by umvi 8y ago

If Oracle wins, it will just solidify my resolve to never use proprietary languages, EVER.

Luckily, Java is fully open source now, with OpenJDK. I concur though with never using proprietary languages (which is a part of me not using C#--of course, that is now also open source, but C# is still kinda bad on Linux afaik). Edit: _sigh_ The downvotes without any reason hurt. See [1]. Since OpenJDK is GPL v2, and since TCK tests have been open sourced and Java EE given to Eclipse, I would call the Java ecosystem fully open source. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong of course. [1] https://openjdk.java.net/legal/gplv2+ce.html https://openjdk.java.net/legal/gplv2+ce.html

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
shawnz 8y ago
OpenJDK is an open source implementation of the Java API. However the question here is about the openness of the Java API itself, not any particular implementation of it. Google already uses a totally separate implementation which is different from both Oracle Java AND OpenJDK.
- BossingAround 8y ago
  Does that make Java/OpenJDK any less open source? If I take OpenJDK and start selling it, how could Oracle get me if OpenJDK is GPL? We're not talking about re-implementing the JDK/JRE spec; the author mentioned he/she wants to use only open source languages...

fixermark 8y ago

Unfortunately, the scope of the case is broader than proprietary languages. It doesn't matter what language you use---if you copy an API (including, IANAL-but-I-assume, recapitulating that API in an entirely different language), you're at risk. This covers a plethora of use-cases.

fancyfish 8y ago
Can anyone elaborate how this could impact tools such as GNU Octave? It would fall under this classification, right?
- fixermark 8y ago
  if Octave shares a bunch of function signatures with MATLAB, yes, it would be at risk for a copyright claim.
  - DoctorOetker 8y ago
    what about instruction "signatures"? i.e. the machine instruction sets? every compiler is potentially performing millions of counts of copyright and or license violations on a large scale?
- codinger 8y ago
  I would like to know if it impacts mathematics and scientific libraries for python that I use in lieu of MatLab.

kodablah 8y ago

What is a proprietary language to you? Java? Then you will have a hard time using many languages since it is open source and copyrighted by its owner like many languages.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 8y ago
A proprietary language in this context is one that does not have an ISO standard.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 8y ago

Yeah, using an ISO standard language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Programming_languages_with_an_ISO_standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Programming_languages...) avoids this problem. There a spec is specifically produced so that there can be multiple implementations.

fixermark 8y ago
But regardless of what language you use, this legal precedent is saying if you, for example, copy Twitter's RESTful API to create your own messaging service where all the existing Twitter clients can change a few constants and adopt you as a target, Twitter could sue. That's not something ISO protects against (unless there's an international standard for asymmetric message services you can design against).

cmiles74 8y ago

I suspect that the implementation of any API would come under the shadow of this ruling. For instance, replacing a proprietary product with an open-source variant that has the same API would also be illegal or subject to licensing fees. In my opinion, this will be bigger than proprietary languages and cover drop-in replacements for pretty much any proprietary code, thus providing yet another way to lock customers into a particular product.