4 ms·

> Replaceable Battery: Yes (with tools) I am Looking forward to the Librem 5 since a while, but those specs aren't particularly promising. In general, there ar

> Replaceable Battery: Yes (with tools) I am Looking forward to the Librem 5 since a while, but those specs aren't particularly promising. In general, there are three features I am missing most often in today's smartphones: 1. Replaceable Battery (without tools) 2. SD-Card Slot 3. Wireless Charging Sadly there are very few models which have all three features. Requiring tools to change the battery is okay if you want to replace an old one with a new one once in a while, but not if you are on vacation, using GPS all day long, and just want to quickly change it.

vbezhenar 8y ago
Depends how hard is it to replace. If you're carrying around extra battery, tiny screwdriver should not be a problem.
- arendtio 8y ago
  Let's hope it won't be complicated, but somehow I doubt that it will be as easy as those normal replaceable batteries.
throw082 8y ago
Re 1: I would also rather have an easily replaceable battery, however for your use case I would think that a powerbank is more sensible than a second battery: no swapping/downtime and you can recharge both at the same time.
- arendtio 8y ago
  Sounds like fun taking photos with a powerbank connected to your phone ;-) In the past, I didn't have a problem with the one-minute downtime. Instead, I enjoyed having a fully charged phone within seconds.
  - turtlebits 8y ago
    Phone case with removable battery. I had a cobattery (now discontinued) case with my iPhone 6 - added a ton of bulk, but was useful to just swap batteries instead of charging.
bo1024 8y ago
It's just one model of phone, so it's going to be really hard to please everyone. The items you mentioned are important to you, but don't matter to me. There are other things I care a lot about that won't be there either. A good market for phones would include products aimed at lots of different bases, but unfortunately for FOSS phones we're not there yet. So my attitude is to support this phone, and hopefully move toward a world where there will be multiple FOSS phones with different feature sets.
- arendtio 8y ago
  Yes, I am well aware of that. Sometimes I wonder if I should set up a page with a poll to collect what most people would want as a smartphone. Somehow I have the feeling that phone manufacturers don't know anymore what the consumers want and instead build phones with 4 cameras just to present something new (and I am one of those who actually enjoy having a good camera within their phone).
  - bo1024 8y ago
    I agree, a lot of products seem that way.
  - fabrixxm 8y ago
    > Sometimes I wonder if I should set up a page with a poll to collect what most people would want as a smartphone you will get the specs of an high-end kitchen sink for the desired price of a Brondi.
    - arendtio 8y ago
      It depends on how you set up that poll. You could attach a price to every feature and let the people decide which feature they want to pay for and what kind of price sensitivity they have (e.g. if they would accept a feature if it would be for free). After you collect the data you analyze the data (e.g. with a cluster analysis) and find out which combinations would have the largest market success. It would be still hypothetical, but I would expect better (from my point of view) results than the currently available models.
AsyncAwait 8y ago
As far as I know a microSD card slot would be present. Things like wireless charging will likely come in subsequent iterations, but there's enough things to do already with the OS, software and the like. If this sells enough, I am sure more things will be addressed in v2, but if we wait for the 'perfect' phone to buy one, there will likely never be a viable FLOSS phone. I pre-ordered to support the cause. If it's decent enough, I'd be happy.
mac01021 8y ago
Does "with tools" just mean a screwdriver? If so, what's the big deal? Everyone's got screwdrivers.
- Splines 8y ago
  It's mostly a matter of convenience and practicality. I can change the battery of my Nexus 5 with tools (mostly a screwdriver and a plastic prying tool), but I wouldn't want to do it away from home since it requires me to deal with small screws and needing some time to deal with small connectors that could be damaged if I was in a rush. A common scenario is you're on vacation and taking a bunch of pictures and using GPS. You could bring your tools with you, but changing your battery involves 10+ minutes of careful disassembly/assembly and you need some space to work. You want this to be "changing AA batteries in a toy" difficulty levels.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - albertgoeswoof 8y ago
    How do you keep the second battery charged though? Surely a power pack which charges the phone over usb is way more convienent. You can get a small one if space is an issue or a massive one if you want it to charge multiple times. And you can charge it from any wall socket at the same time as your main battery, and it can be used for your other devices.
    - int_19h 8y ago
      Batteries are more convenient because you pre-charge them at home, and then you just need to swap them in the field. With an external battery pack, you need to keep it attached to your phone for long enough to recharge - that's longer than several minutes, and it kinda gets in the way of actually using the device.
  - petecox 8y ago
    My Nexus 4's fragile cover (glass back and bits of plastic on the side) doesn't seem to have been designed for repeated wear-and-tear battery replacements. A 10 minute procedure does a little more damage each time. So yes, the procedure should be "idiot proof".
driverdan 8y ago
I'd rather carry a USB battery pack instead of extra phone batteries. They're bulkier but can be used to charge anything.
pfooti 8y ago
Replaceable batteries are kind of a lost cause these days. You could buy some model-specific batteries and deal with rotating them around and charging them up and carrying them and rebooting your phone when you want to swap, or you could instead get a power brick that works with most/all of your devices and doesn't require swapping, and doesn't get obsoleted by a phone upgrade. It doesn't solve every problem that a removable battery solves, but it solves enough of those problems that you're unlikely to see much demand for a removable battery anymore. And remember that engineering the removable battery means engineering for a couple extra mm in thickness for the battery enclosure, which isn't needed in a tools-only or soldered-in kind of deal.
- Wowfunhappy 8y ago
  > Replaceable batteries are kind of a lost cause these days. But, this is the signature open and hacker-friendly phone! Sure removable batteries have fallen out of style in the mainstream, but this isn't a mainstream product.
  - bipson 8y ago
    But you still want to sell it. And more so, you want to please the majority. Oherwise you might be killing the product by picking a niche.
    - Jach 8y ago
      You're just as likely to kill the product by not targeting the niche. Trying to please the majority puts you in competition with the big players. This phone's specs, with the possible exception of the CPU/GPU (haven't looked into it), are a downgrade from the 6 year old Note 3. The only saving grace at the moment is GNU/Linux, separated baseband, and hardware kill switches. Is that going to be enough? If the battery removal tools aren't as simple as a screwdriver, it's already lost me.
  - jekub 8y ago
    But I'm in their target market and I don't want a replaceable battery. I just want the battery to be serviceable when it wear. For a given phone size, a replaceable battery require some additional space which means it will be smaller than a non-replaceable one. I don't want to buy one or two additional battery to carry with me when I can get a battery that last a bit longer and that I can charge with any power bank. (mine or the one of a friend as there is no compatibility problems) Users who want replaceable battery are niche in the niche.
dahfizz 8y ago
Are there any phones that support wireless charging and replaceable batteries? I would think that the wireless charging would make an easily replaceable battery much much harder to implement (and thus not worth it when so few customers care).
jononor 8y ago
For the battery, get together with someone else that wants the same and create a 'jacket' with an additional replaceable battery. And maybe wireless charging also. It would connect to the USB port. Such things already exist for various popular phones from the usual Chinese suppliers.
sgeisler 8y ago
If "tools" meant some sort of screw driver I'd welcome that. If there are any parts that have to bend to open the case these will break in the long run and are less reliable in my experience (e.g. the phone's back would slide off when pulling it out of the pocket, experienced that with my old BB Q10). Some really small torx screws that can't fall out of their holes even when loose would be optimal. If they also shipped a little screwdriver that fits onto one's key chain I'd be more than happy with that solution.

vbezhenar 8y ago

Depends how hard is it to replace. If you're carrying around extra battery, tiny screwdriver should not be a problem.

arendtio 8y ago
Let's hope it won't be complicated, but somehow I doubt that it will be as easy as those normal replaceable batteries.

throw082 8y ago

Re 1: I would also rather have an easily replaceable battery, however for your use case I would think that a powerbank is more sensible than a second battery: no swapping/downtime and you can recharge both at the same time.

arendtio 8y ago
Sounds like fun taking photos with a powerbank connected to your phone ;-) In the past, I didn't have a problem with the one-minute downtime. Instead, I enjoyed having a fully charged phone within seconds.
- turtlebits 8y ago
  Phone case with removable battery. I had a cobattery (now discontinued) case with my iPhone 6 - added a ton of bulk, but was useful to just swap batteries instead of charging.

bo1024 8y ago

It's just one model of phone, so it's going to be really hard to please everyone. The items you mentioned are important to you, but don't matter to me. There are other things I care a lot about that won't be there either. A good market for phones would include products aimed at lots of different bases, but unfortunately for FOSS phones we're not there yet. So my attitude is to support this phone, and hopefully move toward a world where there will be multiple FOSS phones with different feature sets.

arendtio 8y ago
Yes, I am well aware of that. Sometimes I wonder if I should set up a page with a poll to collect what most people would want as a smartphone. Somehow I have the feeling that phone manufacturers don't know anymore what the consumers want and instead build phones with 4 cameras just to present something new (and I am one of those who actually enjoy having a good camera within their phone).
- bo1024 8y ago
  I agree, a lot of products seem that way.
- fabrixxm 8y ago
  > Sometimes I wonder if I should set up a page with a poll to collect what most people would want as a smartphone you will get the specs of an high-end kitchen sink for the desired price of a Brondi.
  - arendtio 8y ago
    It depends on how you set up that poll. You could attach a price to every feature and let the people decide which feature they want to pay for and what kind of price sensitivity they have (e.g. if they would accept a feature if it would be for free). After you collect the data you analyze the data (e.g. with a cluster analysis) and find out which combinations would have the largest market success. It would be still hypothetical, but I would expect better (from my point of view) results than the currently available models.

AsyncAwait 8y ago

As far as I know a microSD card slot would be present. Things like wireless charging will likely come in subsequent iterations, but there's enough things to do already with the OS, software and the like. If this sells enough, I am sure more things will be addressed in v2, but if we wait for the 'perfect' phone to buy one, there will likely never be a viable FLOSS phone. I pre-ordered to support the cause. If it's decent enough, I'd be happy.

mac01021 8y ago

Does "with tools" just mean a screwdriver? If so, what's the big deal? Everyone's got screwdrivers.

Splines 8y ago
It's mostly a matter of convenience and practicality. I can change the battery of my Nexus 5 with tools (mostly a screwdriver and a plastic prying tool), but I wouldn't want to do it away from home since it requires me to deal with small screws and needing some time to deal with small connectors that could be damaged if I was in a rush. A common scenario is you're on vacation and taking a bunch of pictures and using GPS. You could bring your tools with you, but changing your battery involves 10+ minutes of careful disassembly/assembly and you need some space to work. You want this to be "changing AA batteries in a toy" difficulty levels.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- albertgoeswoof 8y ago
  How do you keep the second battery charged though? Surely a power pack which charges the phone over usb is way more convienent. You can get a small one if space is an issue or a massive one if you want it to charge multiple times. And you can charge it from any wall socket at the same time as your main battery, and it can be used for your other devices.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    Batteries are more convenient because you pre-charge them at home, and then you just need to swap them in the field. With an external battery pack, you need to keep it attached to your phone for long enough to recharge - that's longer than several minutes, and it kinda gets in the way of actually using the device.
- petecox 8y ago
  My Nexus 4's fragile cover (glass back and bits of plastic on the side) doesn't seem to have been designed for repeated wear-and-tear battery replacements. A 10 minute procedure does a little more damage each time. So yes, the procedure should be "idiot proof".

driverdan 8y ago

I'd rather carry a USB battery pack instead of extra phone batteries. They're bulkier but can be used to charge anything.

pfooti 8y ago

Replaceable batteries are kind of a lost cause these days. You could buy some model-specific batteries and deal with rotating them around and charging them up and carrying them and rebooting your phone when you want to swap, or you could instead get a power brick that works with most/all of your devices and doesn't require swapping, and doesn't get obsoleted by a phone upgrade. It doesn't solve every problem that a removable battery solves, but it solves enough of those problems that you're unlikely to see much demand for a removable battery anymore. And remember that engineering the removable battery means engineering for a couple extra mm in thickness for the battery enclosure, which isn't needed in a tools-only or soldered-in kind of deal.

Wowfunhappy 8y ago
> Replaceable batteries are kind of a lost cause these days. But, this is the signature open and hacker-friendly phone! Sure removable batteries have fallen out of style in the mainstream, but this isn't a mainstream product.
- bipson 8y ago
  But you still want to sell it. And more so, you want to please the majority. Oherwise you might be killing the product by picking a niche.
  - Jach 8y ago
    You're just as likely to kill the product by not targeting the niche. Trying to please the majority puts you in competition with the big players. This phone's specs, with the possible exception of the CPU/GPU (haven't looked into it), are a downgrade from the 6 year old Note 3. The only saving grace at the moment is GNU/Linux, separated baseband, and hardware kill switches. Is that going to be enough? If the battery removal tools aren't as simple as a screwdriver, it's already lost me.
- jekub 8y ago
  But I'm in their target market and I don't want a replaceable battery. I just want the battery to be serviceable when it wear. For a given phone size, a replaceable battery require some additional space which means it will be smaller than a non-replaceable one. I don't want to buy one or two additional battery to carry with me when I can get a battery that last a bit longer and that I can charge with any power bank. (mine or the one of a friend as there is no compatibility problems) Users who want replaceable battery are niche in the niche.

dahfizz 8y ago

Are there any phones that support wireless charging and replaceable batteries? I would think that the wireless charging would make an easily replaceable battery much much harder to implement (and thus not worth it when so few customers care).

jononor 8y ago

For the battery, get together with someone else that wants the same and create a 'jacket' with an additional replaceable battery. And maybe wireless charging also. It would connect to the USB port. Such things already exist for various popular phones from the usual Chinese suppliers.

sgeisler 8y ago

If "tools" meant some sort of screw driver I'd welcome that. If there are any parts that have to bend to open the case these will break in the long run and are less reliable in my experience (e.g. the phone's back would slide off when pulling it out of the pocket, experienced that with my old BB Q10). Some really small torx screws that can't fall out of their holes even when loose would be optimal. If they also shipped a little screwdriver that fits onto one's key chain I'd be more than happy with that solution.