6 ms·

I lived in LA for a year, and the biggest hurdle I had with using public transit in the city was exactly this: that stations, especially for the newer metro lin

I lived in LA for a year, and the biggest hurdle I had with using public transit in the city was exactly this: that stations, especially for the newer metro lines, often were 2-3 miles from my starting location and destination. Using public transit meant that I either was already near a stop or had a destination immediately next to stop. In every other case, Uber/Lyft'ing through traffic was faster (and cheaper when you add the price to Uber to and from the stations). So I think this idea has potential, though its eventual success will depend two things: first, whether the price of the last-mile via's can be kept low enough to make the diversion to the transit stop affordable, and second, whether the via's and the public transit can reasonably compete on timeliness with ridesharing services.

Retric 8y ago
Using a bike for ~2 mile trip is very fast and cheap. Seems like a much better and possibly faster way to get to and from the metro station most days.
- cbhl 8y ago
  But also super lethal per vehicle mile traveled. It might be different if you are on a dedicated right-of-way...
  - marrone12 8y ago
    Cycling infrastructure in LA is so bad. Bike lanes that end randomly, poor lane merging patterns, and exceedingly fast cars that are all pissed off, it can be pretty dangerous.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - dima55 8y ago
    "Super lethal"? Let's keep things in perspective.
    - asteli 8y ago
      Here's the perspective: You, or rather, the average "you" incur 1 micromort (1/1e6 chance of death while conducting a particular activity) for every: 6 miles traveled by motorcycle 10 miles traveled by bicycle 17 miles traveled by foot 230 miles by car 1000 miles by jet plane So, it really is rather dangerous to get around by bicycle. Not that I recommend against it (I commute by motorcycle, personally). [edit: source wiki article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort#Travel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort#Travel ]
      - Retric 8y ago
        First total bike miles are not rigorously tracked making this statistics extremely suspect. Which is why both 10 and 20 miles are given as separate estimates. “Travelling 10 miles (16 km)[25] (or 20 miles (32 km))[24] by bicycle (accident)” Subway miles are also very safe at ~ 1/20 the risk of driving your car. So, a 2 mile bike ride to a subway + a 20 mile subway trip is about the same risk as a 22 mile commute. Though with very large error bars on that estimate based on personal habits and local conditions. PS: Don’t become a bike messenger it pays well, but the risks are more significant when people are running red lights etc.
        dima55 8y ago
        Not only that, but the references on that wikipedia page about bicycling are extremely poor: neither contains any sort of justification for the claim. I was hoping for a link to a paper, or something.
      - Fishkins 8y ago
        Is that taking into account the effect of the exercise you're getting while cycling? http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safest-form-of-transportation/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safe...
      - dima55 8y ago
        Thanks for the link! I'm still going to claim that 1 micromort/10 miles is nowhere near "super lethal", but we can all decide that for ourselves, I suppose.
- baroffoos 8y ago
  Good way to wake up in the morning and feel great for the rest of the day as well.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    Or sweaty, depending on your fitness level.
    - baroffoos 8y ago
      Not an issue as long as you shower regularly. I arrive at work sweaty but dry off within about 10 minutes in the air conditioned office.
    - q845712 8y ago
      no matter my fitness level i've always been one of the sweatiest people i've ever met. Hasn't stopped me from cycling, and i'll echo the above sentiments: i feel more awake when i get to work and better for the rest of the day if i bike to work. I do take steps to make sure I don't smell: shower either immediately before leaving, or even better immediately on arriving when work has a shower onsite.
- rcpt 8y ago
  Depends on the miles. 2 miles of cycling around the LAX bus depot is horrific
- logicx24 8y ago
  Cycling infrastructure in LA, outside of a few areas in West LA (namely, Santa Monica), is awful. Streets are insanely busy, there usually aren't bike lanes, and the few bike lanes that exist leave you biking next aggressive drivers pushing 60 mph (looking at you, Venice Blvd). Biking isn't a feasible option in most of the city.
clairity 8y ago
> "...its eventual success will depend two things: first, ... the price ..., and second, ... timeliness ...." it's nearly impossible to compete on those two things, but you're assuming that that's the problem they're trying to solve. this program is not for you. it's for people who can't afford to buy & own a car. if you can afford a drive or ridehail everywhere, of course you'd do that, because it's faster and more convenient. this is for less advantaged people who live in the suburbs and have service jobs in the various commercial sectors of the region. and it's for people with disabilities or other impediments. i solve my last mile problem with a variety of options: walk, bike, scooter, and ridehail, but ridehailing is my last option because it's often a poor tradoff between price and time--either it's way more costly or it takes as long as another option, between waiting and picking up/dropping off other people. in LA (the city, not all of socal), scooters and dockless bikes make a lot of sense to me. but the scooter startups want to be in the rich areas and metro flubbed it's bike program by using docking pedal bikes (with peddle-assist rolling out now, but still docked). we just need more dedicated bike/scooter lanes, especially grade-separated ones.
- logicx24 8y ago
  Well, if they're aiming to solve the last-mile problem for less advantaged people, competing on price becomes even more essential. And while the standard answer to this is always subsidization, I think the program needs to at the very least be sustainable from a business perspective so it doesn't become beholden to the whims of the next fiscal-hawk to take city office. I agree with you otherwise: ride-hailing is expensive and inefficient as a last mile solution. Dockless electric scooters are a great idea, and I think if the city can do a managed rollout that doesn't frustrate residents in the area (basically, the opposite of Bird), they could be great success.
  - clairity 8y ago
    yup, it's subsidized for low income folks. honestly, i don't think this program will last long because it's relatively expensive and can't scale efficiently. hopefully the electric scooter/bike companies figure out that a large business is literally right in front of them. it's low margin, but whoever captures it can turn around and use its scaling effects as a barrier to entry.
jboles 8y ago
That's something that would change with time though, hopefully. Useful rail infrastructure, along with increased traffic congestion, encourages commercial and residential development (some may call this 'transit oriented development' but I think that is too narrow a term, and conjures the wrong image for some people) that makes the rail system more and more useful with time. As an example, consider cities that predate multi-lane highways. Their highest density development tends to radiate out from the city centre along train lines, not roads, and the train stations have become commercial hubs where you can run a lot of random errands (with supermarkets, bank branches, post offices, etc.)

Retric 8y ago

Using a bike for ~2 mile trip is very fast and cheap. Seems like a much better and possibly faster way to get to and from the metro station most days.

cbhl 8y ago
But also super lethal per vehicle mile traveled. It might be different if you are on a dedicated right-of-way...
- marrone12 8y ago
  Cycling infrastructure in LA is so bad. Bike lanes that end randomly, poor lane merging patterns, and exceedingly fast cars that are all pissed off, it can be pretty dangerous.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- dima55 8y ago
  "Super lethal"? Let's keep things in perspective.
  - asteli 8y ago
    Here's the perspective: You, or rather, the average "you" incur 1 micromort (1/1e6 chance of death while conducting a particular activity) for every: 6 miles traveled by motorcycle 10 miles traveled by bicycle 17 miles traveled by foot 230 miles by car 1000 miles by jet plane So, it really is rather dangerous to get around by bicycle. Not that I recommend against it (I commute by motorcycle, personally). [edit: source wiki article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort#Travel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort#Travel ]
    - Retric 8y ago
      First total bike miles are not rigorously tracked making this statistics extremely suspect. Which is why both 10 and 20 miles are given as separate estimates. “Travelling 10 miles (16 km)[25] (or 20 miles (32 km))[24] by bicycle (accident)” Subway miles are also very safe at ~ 1/20 the risk of driving your car. So, a 2 mile bike ride to a subway + a 20 mile subway trip is about the same risk as a 22 mile commute. Though with very large error bars on that estimate based on personal habits and local conditions. PS: Don’t become a bike messenger it pays well, but the risks are more significant when people are running red lights etc.
      - dima55 8y ago
        Not only that, but the references on that wikipedia page about bicycling are extremely poor: neither contains any sort of justification for the claim. I was hoping for a link to a paper, or something.
    - Fishkins 8y ago
      Is that taking into account the effect of the exercise you're getting while cycling? http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safest-form-of-transportation/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safe...
    - dima55 8y ago
      Thanks for the link! I'm still going to claim that 1 micromort/10 miles is nowhere near "super lethal", but we can all decide that for ourselves, I suppose.
baroffoos 8y ago
Good way to wake up in the morning and feel great for the rest of the day as well.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  Or sweaty, depending on your fitness level.
  - baroffoos 8y ago
    Not an issue as long as you shower regularly. I arrive at work sweaty but dry off within about 10 minutes in the air conditioned office.
  - q845712 8y ago
    no matter my fitness level i've always been one of the sweatiest people i've ever met. Hasn't stopped me from cycling, and i'll echo the above sentiments: i feel more awake when i get to work and better for the rest of the day if i bike to work. I do take steps to make sure I don't smell: shower either immediately before leaving, or even better immediately on arriving when work has a shower onsite.
rcpt 8y ago
Depends on the miles. 2 miles of cycling around the LAX bus depot is horrific
logicx24 8y ago
Cycling infrastructure in LA, outside of a few areas in West LA (namely, Santa Monica), is awful. Streets are insanely busy, there usually aren't bike lanes, and the few bike lanes that exist leave you biking next aggressive drivers pushing 60 mph (looking at you, Venice Blvd). Biking isn't a feasible option in most of the city.

clairity 8y ago

> "...its eventual success will depend two things: first, ... the price ..., and second, ... timeliness ...." it's nearly impossible to compete on those two things, but you're assuming that that's the problem they're trying to solve. this program is not for you. it's for people who can't afford to buy & own a car. if you can afford a drive or ridehail everywhere, of course you'd do that, because it's faster and more convenient. this is for less advantaged people who live in the suburbs and have service jobs in the various commercial sectors of the region. and it's for people with disabilities or other impediments. i solve my last mile problem with a variety of options: walk, bike, scooter, and ridehail, but ridehailing is my last option because it's often a poor tradoff between price and time--either it's way more costly or it takes as long as another option, between waiting and picking up/dropping off other people. in LA (the city, not all of socal), scooters and dockless bikes make a lot of sense to me. but the scooter startups want to be in the rich areas and metro flubbed it's bike program by using docking pedal bikes (with peddle-assist rolling out now, but still docked). we just need more dedicated bike/scooter lanes, especially grade-separated ones.

logicx24 8y ago
Well, if they're aiming to solve the last-mile problem for less advantaged people, competing on price becomes even more essential. And while the standard answer to this is always subsidization, I think the program needs to at the very least be sustainable from a business perspective so it doesn't become beholden to the whims of the next fiscal-hawk to take city office. I agree with you otherwise: ride-hailing is expensive and inefficient as a last mile solution. Dockless electric scooters are a great idea, and I think if the city can do a managed rollout that doesn't frustrate residents in the area (basically, the opposite of Bird), they could be great success.
- clairity 8y ago
  yup, it's subsidized for low income folks. honestly, i don't think this program will last long because it's relatively expensive and can't scale efficiently. hopefully the electric scooter/bike companies figure out that a large business is literally right in front of them. it's low margin, but whoever captures it can turn around and use its scaling effects as a barrier to entry.

jboles 8y ago

That's something that would change with time though, hopefully. Useful rail infrastructure, along with increased traffic congestion, encourages commercial and residential development (some may call this 'transit oriented development' but I think that is too narrow a term, and conjures the wrong image for some people) that makes the rail system more and more useful with time. As an example, consider cities that predate multi-lane highways. Their highest density development tends to radiate out from the city centre along train lines, not roads, and the train stations have become commercial hubs where you can run a lot of random errands (with supermarkets, bank branches, post offices, etc.)