6 ms·

Curbside security guard asked a couple basic questions ("How long were you in Israel? Where are you traveling to?"). The guard at the first security gate inside

Curbside security guard asked a couple basic questions ("How long were you in Israel? Where are you traveling to?"). The guard at the first security gate inside asked ~20 questions (4-8 is normal). I think answering that I'm a SW engineer to "What do you do for a living?" made her suspicious. I was then directed to a side security area where they searched my bags and discovered my laptop. A few guards then escorted me to a side room. Here there was one guard interrogating me on and off for ~2 hours. Just about any question I asked was met with "We can't tell you that." They confiscated my laptop b/c they had to "run more tests". I said several times I would wait for the tests, but they 'insisted' I leave. As soon as I was through security I went to Turkish airlines for help, but their immediate (read: scripted) response was "We do not deal with airport security."

slim 8y ago
Contact your embassy. They will solve it
v12 8y ago
Good luck with that, Airline can't do anything about that. Your next best bet is to reach out to the airport again, but this time through an embassy or consulate.
cm2187 8y ago
I presume the first thing you did when you got your laptop back is to re-image it?
- boltzmannbrain 8y ago
  Never got my laptop back.
- opless 8y ago
  That wouldn't necessarily remove everything evil that could potentially be done with it though.
- epmaybe 8y ago
  I don't think he has received his laptop yet
  - boltzmannbrain 8y ago
    Still no laptop, and no updates from Turkish Air nor the airport.
- DanBC 8y ago
  If your device has been out of your site, under the control of a well-funded government agency, and you believe that agency to be hostile then the device is compromised and the only thin you can do with it is sell it on to someone else or destroy it.
  - Cyphase 8y ago
    For Sale: Acme XYZ123 laptop with <specs>. Confiscated and returned by Israeli airport security. Great buy for counterintelligence agents or someone looking for a target for hardware compromise detection practice.* * The security of the laptop, electronic devices in its vicinity, or the purchaser is not guaranteed.
    - londons_explore 8y ago
      I wonder if selling it on eBay with that description would increase or decrease its value.
rohansingh 8y ago
Wow, sounds like a real-life nightmare. What kind of questions did they ask you during that 2-hour interrogation?
- boltzmannbrain 8y ago
  It was more of the rapid-fire "where did you stay? what did you do your previous trips to Israel?", but also asking where I got the computer from, what I use it for, why I brought it to Israel, if anyone else touched it, etc.
kkapelon 8y ago
> As soon as I was through security I went to Turkish airlines for help, but their immediate (read: scripted) response was "We do not deal with airport security." Well isn't this true? I am sorry for your ordeal but there is nothing an airline can do with this matter. Have you tried contacting the airport itself?
- isostatic 8y ago
  If you're taken away for too long, you may miss your flight. I'd hope that the airline would put you on the next one, despite them not having to do so.
  - chrismeller 8y ago
    What does that have to do with this situation?
    - isostatic 8y ago
      It would be an airline providing what help they can for a situation that wasn't the passenger's fault
- chrismeller 8y ago
  Definitely not something the airline has anything to do with. I can complain to American about the TSA, but it’s going to do just as much as complaining to them about the price of the sandwich at Subway.
colordrops 8y ago
They know you work in advanced technology and stole it. Your work could be applied to military use.
isostatic 8y ago
Curbside questions? I haven't been for a few years but don't remember any of those, just the usual "I'm asking you this because I think someone may have planted a bomb in your luggage" inside the terminal. I haven't had anything approaching that level of interrogation (can you show me any evidence of what you've been working on) since my first trip in 2010 -- which was before my first Erez stamp (that's the border post before you go into Gaza). Did you get a taxi to the airport, or dropped from a friend?
- boltzmannbrain 8y ago
  Taxi. I've traveled to Israel a few times now and the extra questioning seems standard.
  - vldx 8y ago
    Have you traveled to other Middle East countries previously?
notyourday 8y ago
Israel does profile based on the airline. It is a reasonably ( i would actually say very well ) known fact.
- projectramo 8y ago
  The #1 destination for passengers from Ben Gurion is Istanbul flown mostly by Turkish Airlines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Gurion_Airport#Top_destinations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Gurion_Airport#Top_destina... I assume they're very comfortable with Turkish Airlines at this point.
  - notyourday 8y ago
    > I assume they're very comfortable with Turkish Airlines at this point. Oh absolutely. That also means they are very good at identifying who does and who does not "fit" the standard profile of a regular flyer for that specific flight. OP tripped something.
projectramo 8y ago
I just assume there must be 1000s, perhaps 10s of 1000s of people who answer "software engineer" in any given month. None of this makes sense on the face of it. I wonder if you were connected to a network that was compromised and they tracked your computer? Also unlikely. Do you think the last person you talked to was just having a bad day and as you got annoyed you triggered them and they took it on you?
- LyndsySimon 8y ago
  Disclaimer: I've never traveled to or through Israel. As others have referenced, Israeli airport security use profiling extensively. The questions that are asked are almost (but not quite) irrelevant - they are trained to gauge a person's reactions, their unconscious biological responses, etc. It seems likely to me that what they keyed in on wasn't the author's questions, responses, or even their general attitude, but the overall resistance to having their laptop searched. The distinction between "I resent this process and need my laptop for work" and "If they take my laptop I'm going to be in trouble" is probably below the threshold of their training. I'd even say it's possible that the author's reaction to having their laptop confiscated was part of the profiling technique. The fact that they let them continue on to their flight tells me that they didn't perceive them to be a security risk at the end of the process.
  - CogitoCogito 8y ago
    > The fact that they let them continue on to their flight tells me that they didn't perceive them to be a security risk at the end of the process. I’m having a bit of trouble understanding the rationale allowing continued travel, but not allowing continued travel with the laptop. Can anyone here shed a bit of light on this?
    - LyndsySimon 8y ago
      Perhaps they cued in on their nervousness, decided that they weren't a threat, but also decided that their laptop might contain evidence of a crime (e.g., industrial espionage).
ilsec_throw 8y ago
What is your goal in this publicity? On the surface, it seems like yet another dispute with unreasonable customer service and you are using the shame tactic to get your way. This is airport security in Israel. It's not security theater. It's the real deal. There is something in this story that is missing. You may not know what it is, but those people are really good at their jobs. Was that really your laptop? Were all the files on it really yours? Were you really just there as a SW engineer? Did you really tell them the truth to all 20 questions? You've claimed to spend time in the country. You know how it works. The people in security make good money and have access to tons of resources ... they don't want your laptop for fun or a side hustle. If you have a grievance against the Israeli government, there is due process there just like in the US. It works as well there as it does in the US. File a suit... the courts will sort this out. (Edit: You also would have received a claim ticket for confiscated property, just like in many US jurisdictions. Something is missing from this story.) Publicity just makes you look like you are acting in bad faith.
- nyolfen 8y ago
  if getting shaken down is part of the risk of flying through israel then it’s a public good to let others to know. this reflexive defensive crap is par for the course i suppose.
  - isostatic 8y ago
    And in the U.S. > A few months earlier in the same airport, a tech engineer returning from a business trip to London objected when a federal agent asked him to type his password into his laptop computer. "This laptop doesn't belong to me," he remembers protesting. "It belongs to my company." Eventually, he agreed to log on and stood by as the officer copied the Web sites he had visited, said the engineer, a U.S. citizen who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of calling attention to himself. https://boingboing.net/2008/02/07/tsa-confiscating-lap.html https://boingboing.net/2008/02/07/tsa-confiscating-lap.html Except in Israel the threat is real, and the security guards are actually competent
    - 8y ago
desireco42 8y ago
I am sorry for what happened to you. I really am. I heard before that Israeli security can be scary if they sense you went to either Palestinian areas or some of their flags get triggered. But no excuse for them to do what they do. I hope you raising this issue help you get your laptop back. I personally worry that they might take my laptop from me and install some spyware, so I try not to carry one, or if I do, travel with Chromebook. Whenever I can get away without carrying laptop, it is huge relief to just breeze through customs. Essentially excuses they have to talk to you are diminished and potential for some unpleasant interaction are greatly reduced. I carry Kindle and if I have to Chromebook, life is much simpler. Friends borrow me their laptops if I have to do some work. Again, sorry for what is happening to you, I can't even imagine how horrible you are feeling, hope for quick and positive resolution.
- boltzmannbrain 8y ago
  Thank you. It was an unfortunate learning lesson. Even if I do get my laptop back it won't be usable -- I have to assume they've gone through it and tampered somehow.
  - iagovar 8y ago
    Chromebook + https://www.paperspace.com/ https://www.paperspace.com/ may be a solution
  - desireco42 8y ago
    I know, you always think it is something it happens to other people. Chromebook FTW
    - fmajid 8y ago
      Chromebooks won't work in China, where the Great Firewall blocks most Western cloud services.
      - londons_explore 8y ago
0xbadcafebee 8y ago
What you experienced is not rare at all for travel through Israel. Answering that you're a SW engineer is not suspicious, it's how you answer that they're trained to look at. The questions are basically irrelevant. You and your equipment got flagged. Once when I was boarding a plane to fly into TLV from Athens, I got about 200 questions in the space of 5 minutes, from 3 different people. When I mentioned who I used to work for, they asked me what that kind of work entailed, what did my office building look like, what city was it in, where was I living at that time, why was I living somewhere else, etc. I got the same questions multiple times, spaced apart. They don't actually give a crap what my old office building looked like. They're looking for responses that appear delayed, evasive, made up. After the questions I had to follow them to another room to have my bags meticulously inspected and scanned. They then checked my bags for me (breaking my zipper in the process - and no, the airline didn't do jack about it) and finally let me board. After I was on, they barged on and insisted some older passenger who had been sitting quietly leave the plane immediately while it was on the tarmac, and left. Traveling through Israel is a pain in the ass.
- kkapelon 8y ago
  >I was boarding a plane to fly into TLV from Athens I think you mean the other way around. If you are being asked all these questions the flight was from TLV to Athens. Right?
  - pintxo 8y ago
    Israel has people on the ground around the world. Hard learned lesson after too many hijacked planes.
    - isostatic 8y ago
      See for example the "Hindawi affair" https://www.asi-mag.com/ann-marie-murphy-hindawi-affair-30th-anniversary-review/ https://www.asi-mag.com/ann-marie-murphy-hindawi-affair-30th...
      - 8y ago

slim 8y ago

Contact your embassy. They will solve it

v12 8y ago

Good luck with that, Airline can't do anything about that. Your next best bet is to reach out to the airport again, but this time through an embassy or consulate.

cm2187 8y ago

I presume the first thing you did when you got your laptop back is to re-image it?

boltzmannbrain 8y ago
Never got my laptop back.
opless 8y ago
That wouldn't necessarily remove everything evil that could potentially be done with it though.
epmaybe 8y ago
I don't think he has received his laptop yet
- boltzmannbrain 8y ago
  Still no laptop, and no updates from Turkish Air nor the airport.
DanBC 8y ago
If your device has been out of your site, under the control of a well-funded government agency, and you believe that agency to be hostile then the device is compromised and the only thin you can do with it is sell it on to someone else or destroy it.
- Cyphase 8y ago
  For Sale: Acme XYZ123 laptop with <specs>. Confiscated and returned by Israeli airport security. Great buy for counterintelligence agents or someone looking for a target for hardware compromise detection practice.* * The security of the laptop, electronic devices in its vicinity, or the purchaser is not guaranteed.
  - londons_explore 8y ago
    I wonder if selling it on eBay with that description would increase or decrease its value.

rohansingh 8y ago

Wow, sounds like a real-life nightmare. What kind of questions did they ask you during that 2-hour interrogation?

boltzmannbrain 8y ago
It was more of the rapid-fire "where did you stay? what did you do your previous trips to Israel?", but also asking where I got the computer from, what I use it for, why I brought it to Israel, if anyone else touched it, etc.

kkapelon 8y ago

> As soon as I was through security I went to Turkish airlines for help, but their immediate (read: scripted) response was "We do not deal with airport security." Well isn't this true? I am sorry for your ordeal but there is nothing an airline can do with this matter. Have you tried contacting the airport itself?

isostatic 8y ago
If you're taken away for too long, you may miss your flight. I'd hope that the airline would put you on the next one, despite them not having to do so.
- chrismeller 8y ago
  What does that have to do with this situation?
  - isostatic 8y ago
    It would be an airline providing what help they can for a situation that wasn't the passenger's fault
chrismeller 8y ago
Definitely not something the airline has anything to do with. I can complain to American about the TSA, but it’s going to do just as much as complaining to them about the price of the sandwich at Subway.

colordrops 8y ago

They know you work in advanced technology and stole it. Your work could be applied to military use.

isostatic 8y ago

Curbside questions? I haven't been for a few years but don't remember any of those, just the usual "I'm asking you this because I think someone may have planted a bomb in your luggage" inside the terminal. I haven't had anything approaching that level of interrogation (can you show me any evidence of what you've been working on) since my first trip in 2010 -- which was before my first Erez stamp (that's the border post before you go into Gaza). Did you get a taxi to the airport, or dropped from a friend?

boltzmannbrain 8y ago
Taxi. I've traveled to Israel a few times now and the extra questioning seems standard.
- vldx 8y ago
  Have you traveled to other Middle East countries previously?

notyourday 8y ago

Israel does profile based on the airline. It is a reasonably ( i would actually say very well ) known fact.

projectramo 8y ago
The #1 destination for passengers from Ben Gurion is Istanbul flown mostly by Turkish Airlines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Gurion_Airport#Top_destinations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Gurion_Airport#Top_destina... I assume they're very comfortable with Turkish Airlines at this point.
- notyourday 8y ago
  > I assume they're very comfortable with Turkish Airlines at this point. Oh absolutely. That also means they are very good at identifying who does and who does not "fit" the standard profile of a regular flyer for that specific flight. OP tripped something.

projectramo 8y ago

I just assume there must be 1000s, perhaps 10s of 1000s of people who answer "software engineer" in any given month. None of this makes sense on the face of it. I wonder if you were connected to a network that was compromised and they tracked your computer? Also unlikely. Do you think the last person you talked to was just having a bad day and as you got annoyed you triggered them and they took it on you?

LyndsySimon 8y ago
Disclaimer: I've never traveled to or through Israel. As others have referenced, Israeli airport security use profiling extensively. The questions that are asked are almost (but not quite) irrelevant - they are trained to gauge a person's reactions, their unconscious biological responses, etc. It seems likely to me that what they keyed in on wasn't the author's questions, responses, or even their general attitude, but the overall resistance to having their laptop searched. The distinction between "I resent this process and need my laptop for work" and "If they take my laptop I'm going to be in trouble" is probably below the threshold of their training. I'd even say it's possible that the author's reaction to having their laptop confiscated was part of the profiling technique. The fact that they let them continue on to their flight tells me that they didn't perceive them to be a security risk at the end of the process.
- CogitoCogito 8y ago
  > The fact that they let them continue on to their flight tells me that they didn't perceive them to be a security risk at the end of the process. I’m having a bit of trouble understanding the rationale allowing continued travel, but not allowing continued travel with the laptop. Can anyone here shed a bit of light on this?
  - LyndsySimon 8y ago
    Perhaps they cued in on their nervousness, decided that they weren't a threat, but also decided that their laptop might contain evidence of a crime (e.g., industrial espionage).

ilsec_throw 8y ago

What is your goal in this publicity? On the surface, it seems like yet another dispute with unreasonable customer service and you are using the shame tactic to get your way. This is airport security in Israel. It's not security theater. It's the real deal. There is something in this story that is missing. You may not know what it is, but those people are really good at their jobs. Was that really your laptop? Were all the files on it really yours? Were you really just there as a SW engineer? Did you really tell them the truth to all 20 questions? You've claimed to spend time in the country. You know how it works. The people in security make good money and have access to tons of resources ... they don't want your laptop for fun or a side hustle. If you have a grievance against the Israeli government, there is due process there just like in the US. It works as well there as it does in the US. File a suit... the courts will sort this out. (Edit: You also would have received a claim ticket for confiscated property, just like in many US jurisdictions. Something is missing from this story.) Publicity just makes you look like you are acting in bad faith.

nyolfen 8y ago
if getting shaken down is part of the risk of flying through israel then it’s a public good to let others to know. this reflexive defensive crap is par for the course i suppose.
- isostatic 8y ago
  And in the U.S. > A few months earlier in the same airport, a tech engineer returning from a business trip to London objected when a federal agent asked him to type his password into his laptop computer. "This laptop doesn't belong to me," he remembers protesting. "It belongs to my company." Eventually, he agreed to log on and stood by as the officer copied the Web sites he had visited, said the engineer, a U.S. citizen who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of calling attention to himself. https://boingboing.net/2008/02/07/tsa-confiscating-lap.html https://boingboing.net/2008/02/07/tsa-confiscating-lap.html Except in Israel the threat is real, and the security guards are actually competent
  - 8y ago

desireco42 8y ago

I am sorry for what happened to you. I really am. I heard before that Israeli security can be scary if they sense you went to either Palestinian areas or some of their flags get triggered. But no excuse for them to do what they do. I hope you raising this issue help you get your laptop back. I personally worry that they might take my laptop from me and install some spyware, so I try not to carry one, or if I do, travel with Chromebook. Whenever I can get away without carrying laptop, it is huge relief to just breeze through customs. Essentially excuses they have to talk to you are diminished and potential for some unpleasant interaction are greatly reduced. I carry Kindle and if I have to Chromebook, life is much simpler. Friends borrow me their laptops if I have to do some work. Again, sorry for what is happening to you, I can't even imagine how horrible you are feeling, hope for quick and positive resolution.

boltzmannbrain 8y ago
Thank you. It was an unfortunate learning lesson. Even if I do get my laptop back it won't be usable -- I have to assume they've gone through it and tampered somehow.
- iagovar 8y ago
  Chromebook + https://www.paperspace.com/ https://www.paperspace.com/ may be a solution
- desireco42 8y ago
  I know, you always think it is something it happens to other people. Chromebook FTW
  - fmajid 8y ago
    Chromebooks won't work in China, where the Great Firewall blocks most Western cloud services.
    - londons_explore 8y ago

0xbadcafebee 8y ago

What you experienced is not rare at all for travel through Israel. Answering that you're a SW engineer is not suspicious, it's how you answer that they're trained to look at. The questions are basically irrelevant. You and your equipment got flagged. Once when I was boarding a plane to fly into TLV from Athens, I got about 200 questions in the space of 5 minutes, from 3 different people. When I mentioned who I used to work for, they asked me what that kind of work entailed, what did my office building look like, what city was it in, where was I living at that time, why was I living somewhere else, etc. I got the same questions multiple times, spaced apart. They don't actually give a crap what my old office building looked like. They're looking for responses that appear delayed, evasive, made up. After the questions I had to follow them to another room to have my bags meticulously inspected and scanned. They then checked my bags for me (breaking my zipper in the process - and no, the airline didn't do jack about it) and finally let me board. After I was on, they barged on and insisted some older passenger who had been sitting quietly leave the plane immediately while it was on the tarmac, and left. Traveling through Israel is a pain in the ass.

kkapelon 8y ago
>I was boarding a plane to fly into TLV from Athens I think you mean the other way around. If you are being asked all these questions the flight was from TLV to Athens. Right?
- pintxo 8y ago
  Israel has people on the ground around the world. Hard learned lesson after too many hijacked planes.
  - isostatic 8y ago
    See for example the "Hindawi affair" https://www.asi-mag.com/ann-marie-murphy-hindawi-affair-30th-anniversary-review/ https://www.asi-mag.com/ann-marie-murphy-hindawi-affair-30th...
    - 8y ago