4 ms·

Some tech pundits foresee a Facebook future where friend recommendations replace search I don't even understand how anyone can think this would be useful. Wou

Some tech pundits foresee a Facebook future where friend recommendations replace search I don't even understand how anyone can think this would be useful. Would it be helpful when shopping for a new phone to know if my "friends" have had better experience with Android or an iPhone? Sure. But will a friend's recommendations help me find driving directions to a location, or help me search for the answer to an elusive error message from a piece of software I'm using, or help me find out more information on a historic event or disease I want to learn more about? How often are these "tech pundits" correct in their prognostications anyway?

kunjaan 16y ago
I think my friends recommendation to rank the serp if done intelligently would be great.
drats 16y ago
The confusion of all these journalists lies in the fact that Google and Facebook are direct competitors because they both are advertising companies based on data. But they both have fairly different usage scenarios so you'd say that they are in partial competition like fast food being sold in a theme park and a fast food company that does deliveries to homes and offices. But maybe it's not that distinct; I suppose the product recommendation engine could go beyond your local graph into friends of friends so that you can see what SLR camera your "greater tribe" has been most satisfied with, see what they said about it and see some of their photos they've taken with it. But am I going to really be swayed by this vs. an Anandtech style SSD review or a camcorderinfo.com one[1]? I think not. Maybe for something I don't care much about and wish I could care less about, like clothes, I could be swayed. But as soon as Amazon has a system where I can send in all my measurements and then browse appropriate stuff from home and set up "manpacks" style periodic deliveries I doubt I will step foot in another clothes store again. As I understand it, that's pretty much in development right now. And as you say, Google is organising the world's information well beyond products. I share your disappointment in these tech pundits, but even HN returns to them constantly like moths to a flame. [1] some of these reviews are seriously impressive in their depth vs CNET "senior" editors (btw has anyone ever actually seen a non-"senior" CNET editor?) http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HF-S100-Camcorder-Review-36389/Color-amp-Noise-Performance.htm http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HF-S100-Camcorder...
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  I think cameras are a great example. I don't care what my "greater tribe" thinks of a camera. Why should I? What difference could it possibly make - unless I'm a moron who needs to be seen carrying the same camera as Bob-the-cool-guy? Even more, only a dull minority of modern people have only one "tribe". I might share a friendship with one group of people based on a single interest and another group based on another and the two groups only marginally intersect. I was impressed that a member of my martial arts group brought a camera to video our practice group. But I have no reason to think he actually knows more about cameras than the average camera using person and I didn't ask his advice in buying a camera when I did buy one (I bought my camera used off craiglist after Googling up some reviews - basically finding the cheapest item that satisfied my needs).
  - marquis 16y ago
    Friend's suggestions are highly valued, especially for large ticket tech items where the options are endless and often seemingly the same. Those who are not tech-savvy have no idea what model camera, monitor, computer etc to buy. My family is always asking my advice for these things, and I'm sure if Facebook released some kind of recommended-by-your-friends product search they'd take it to quickly. Variety and freedom of choice is not always seen as a good thing, in those areas where someone has little experience of purchase.
ThomPete 16y ago
That is because you probably think that most people are like you and me. Interested in the internet. That is not the case. Most people are interested in stuff like mountain biking, kayaking, photography, cooking, their friends, partying and so on. They couldn't care less where they get their information from. They are in that regards, lemmings. They don't even know that they can search for an answer to an elusive error message. Hell they don't even know what it is. Google couldn't survive on google maps alone so if they loose the preferred search "war" they are in deep trouble. Also mind you that Facebook is capable of delivering far more precisely targeted advertising in context of not only your interest, but your current situation at any given day (at least potentially) It's easy to think that the rest of the world thinks like us, but they don't. Case in pint. The recent skype re-design that drew a lot of bad reviews are all made by techies with at least a hundred skype contacts. Yet 90% of people on skype have 5 contacts, 95% use the message window to write "Can I call you" So all in all I would say that Facebook is in great shape to compete with Google. It's not made for the 20% but the 80%.
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  This "people are sheeple" position is quite widely held but didn't actually serve old media. The rise Google has involved a move from advertising based on "tempting the unthinking masses" to advertising based on giving a mass of individuals the information they seek. Old media grew wealthy on emotional, image-based advertising while neglecting informational advertising. Sure, the people interested in biking, kayaking or photography might not be terribly competent with computers but the rise of Google has demonstrated that more and more these people are after the objectively best product and less-and-less a product that their friends, their tribe or their favorite celebrity endorses (this does vary a lot by product category but its hard to find a hi-tech product people buy only for the image). Google has found a way to give them some rough approximation of the objective information they seek. Average people are certainly also entertained by chatting with their friends on Facebook. Does that mean they'll go back to consuming based on emotional advertising? I don't think so. The proof is in the Facebook ad conversion rate. Tell me when it gets up to Google levels.
  - 16y ago
axod 16y ago
> "Would it be helpful when shopping for a new phone to know if my "friends" have had better experience with Android or an iPhone? Sure." Even if that is the case for some people (not me), I'd be really surprised if people start shopping for a phone by going to facebook. It just won't happen. People go to a search engine (google) to find stuff. They go to facebook to communicate with friends, waste time, play games, share social stuff. The intent simply isn't there on facebook.
- hackinthebochs 16y ago
  And this is where people in the power user group always miss the boat. We have different sites for different things, and the overlap is minimal to nonexistent. This isn't true for most people. It's been said google is the homepage of the internet.. Well, facebook is quickly becoming that to a growing group of people. If people can get a good recommendation for a phone from the website they're already on, they sure as hell are going to use it. If people can get "recommendations" for a website for whatever they're looking for, you'd be foolish to think they aren't going to use it. Why is it that Mozilla is sustained by having a little search box on the browser? People use it 'cause it's there.
  - axod 16y ago
    I disagree. Non tech people I know wouldn't use facebook for anything other than 'friends/photos/games'.
    - marquis 16y ago
      That's because those options aren't there yet. I'd be genuinely suprised if there became such an option and it wasn't successful. Don't you get asked for recommendations on tech purchases by your lesser-techy friends/family? Where is the difference? People also like to buy what the majority is buying as it is viewed as stable. Facebook can really make an effect here (disclaimer, I'm not on Facebook and don't intend to start).
      - 16y ago
DanielRibeiro 16y ago
Google made this point of recommendations vs facts on a recent paper on their Q&A System: "Confucius and Its Intelligent Disciples: Integrating Social with Search" http://research.google.com/pubs/pub36900.html http://research.google.com/pubs/pub36900.html
hackinthebochs 16y ago
Of course it's useful. What is a back-link other than a recommendation for a website? The internet has changed. Most people on the internet no longer publish anything, so we're effectively seeing an oligarchy when it comes to ranking information on the internet. Using various forms of social media is a way to again democratize the access to information. To do this you have to go where the recommendations are. They used to be by linking to a website from your own. Of course that is going to remain a large component, but any company would be foolish to write off using social linking as a source for recommendations.

kunjaan 16y ago

I think my friends recommendation to rank the serp if done intelligently would be great.

drats 16y ago

The confusion of all these journalists lies in the fact that Google and Facebook are direct competitors because they both are advertising companies based on data. But they both have fairly different usage scenarios so you'd say that they are in partial competition like fast food being sold in a theme park and a fast food company that does deliveries to homes and offices. But maybe it's not that distinct; I suppose the product recommendation engine could go beyond your local graph into friends of friends so that you can see what SLR camera your "greater tribe" has been most satisfied with, see what they said about it and see some of their photos they've taken with it. But am I going to really be swayed by this vs. an Anandtech style SSD review or a camcorderinfo.com one[1]? I think not. Maybe for something I don't care much about and wish I could care less about, like clothes, I could be swayed. But as soon as Amazon has a system where I can send in all my measurements and then browse appropriate stuff from home and set up "manpacks" style periodic deliveries I doubt I will step foot in another clothes store again. As I understand it, that's pretty much in development right now. And as you say, Google is organising the world's information well beyond products. I share your disappointment in these tech pundits, but even HN returns to them constantly like moths to a flame. [1] some of these reviews are seriously impressive in their depth vs CNET "senior" editors (btw has anyone ever actually seen a non-"senior" CNET editor?) http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HF-S100-Camcorder-Review-36389/Color-amp-Noise-Performance.htm http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HF-S100-Camcorder...

joe_the_user 16y ago
I think cameras are a great example. I don't care what my "greater tribe" thinks of a camera. Why should I? What difference could it possibly make - unless I'm a moron who needs to be seen carrying the same camera as Bob-the-cool-guy? Even more, only a dull minority of modern people have only one "tribe". I might share a friendship with one group of people based on a single interest and another group based on another and the two groups only marginally intersect. I was impressed that a member of my martial arts group brought a camera to video our practice group. But I have no reason to think he actually knows more about cameras than the average camera using person and I didn't ask his advice in buying a camera when I did buy one (I bought my camera used off craiglist after Googling up some reviews - basically finding the cheapest item that satisfied my needs).
- marquis 16y ago
  Friend's suggestions are highly valued, especially for large ticket tech items where the options are endless and often seemingly the same. Those who are not tech-savvy have no idea what model camera, monitor, computer etc to buy. My family is always asking my advice for these things, and I'm sure if Facebook released some kind of recommended-by-your-friends product search they'd take it to quickly. Variety and freedom of choice is not always seen as a good thing, in those areas where someone has little experience of purchase.

ThomPete 16y ago

That is because you probably think that most people are like you and me. Interested in the internet. That is not the case. Most people are interested in stuff like mountain biking, kayaking, photography, cooking, their friends, partying and so on. They couldn't care less where they get their information from. They are in that regards, lemmings. They don't even know that they can search for an answer to an elusive error message. Hell they don't even know what it is. Google couldn't survive on google maps alone so if they loose the preferred search "war" they are in deep trouble. Also mind you that Facebook is capable of delivering far more precisely targeted advertising in context of not only your interest, but your current situation at any given day (at least potentially) It's easy to think that the rest of the world thinks like us, but they don't. Case in pint. The recent skype re-design that drew a lot of bad reviews are all made by techies with at least a hundred skype contacts. Yet 90% of people on skype have 5 contacts, 95% use the message window to write "Can I call you" So all in all I would say that Facebook is in great shape to compete with Google. It's not made for the 20% but the 80%.

joe_the_user 16y ago
This "people are sheeple" position is quite widely held but didn't actually serve old media. The rise Google has involved a move from advertising based on "tempting the unthinking masses" to advertising based on giving a mass of individuals the information they seek. Old media grew wealthy on emotional, image-based advertising while neglecting informational advertising. Sure, the people interested in biking, kayaking or photography might not be terribly competent with computers but the rise of Google has demonstrated that more and more these people are after the objectively best product and less-and-less a product that their friends, their tribe or their favorite celebrity endorses (this does vary a lot by product category but its hard to find a hi-tech product people buy only for the image). Google has found a way to give them some rough approximation of the objective information they seek. Average people are certainly also entertained by chatting with their friends on Facebook. Does that mean they'll go back to consuming based on emotional advertising? I don't think so. The proof is in the Facebook ad conversion rate. Tell me when it gets up to Google levels.
- 16y ago

axod 16y ago

> "Would it be helpful when shopping for a new phone to know if my "friends" have had better experience with Android or an iPhone? Sure." Even if that is the case for some people (not me), I'd be really surprised if people start shopping for a phone by going to facebook. It just won't happen. People go to a search engine (google) to find stuff. They go to facebook to communicate with friends, waste time, play games, share social stuff. The intent simply isn't there on facebook.

hackinthebochs 16y ago
And this is where people in the power user group always miss the boat. We have different sites for different things, and the overlap is minimal to nonexistent. This isn't true for most people. It's been said google is the homepage of the internet.. Well, facebook is quickly becoming that to a growing group of people. If people can get a good recommendation for a phone from the website they're already on, they sure as hell are going to use it. If people can get "recommendations" for a website for whatever they're looking for, you'd be foolish to think they aren't going to use it. Why is it that Mozilla is sustained by having a little search box on the browser? People use it 'cause it's there.
- axod 16y ago
  I disagree. Non tech people I know wouldn't use facebook for anything other than 'friends/photos/games'.
  - marquis 16y ago
    That's because those options aren't there yet. I'd be genuinely suprised if there became such an option and it wasn't successful. Don't you get asked for recommendations on tech purchases by your lesser-techy friends/family? Where is the difference? People also like to buy what the majority is buying as it is viewed as stable. Facebook can really make an effect here (disclaimer, I'm not on Facebook and don't intend to start).
    - 16y ago

DanielRibeiro 16y ago

Google made this point of recommendations vs facts on a recent paper on their Q&A System: "Confucius and Its Intelligent Disciples: Integrating Social with Search" http://research.google.com/pubs/pub36900.html http://research.google.com/pubs/pub36900.html

hackinthebochs 16y ago

Of course it's useful. What is a back-link other than a recommendation for a website? The internet has changed. Most people on the internet no longer publish anything, so we're effectively seeing an oligarchy when it comes to ranking information on the internet. Using various forms of social media is a way to again democratize the access to information. To do this you have to go where the recommendations are. They used to be by linking to a website from your own. Of course that is going to remain a large component, but any company would be foolish to write off using social linking as a source for recommendations.