9 ms·

Fermentation and Daily Life

183 points by colinprince 8y ago

bambax 8y ago
Excellent article! The first 3 § are a little off-putting but then it gets great. This amused me: "She grew up in a family where, when concerned if the milk was OK, they wouldn’t look at the expiry date but instead sniff it." Everyone in our family always did this and so do I; I never realized people did otherwise. If it smells good (or doesn't smell at all), eat it. If it smells kind of bad, wash it. If it still smells bad after washing, then throw away.
- homarp 8y ago
  how do you wash milk ?
  - Frye 8y ago
    Luke warm water for 45 seconds
  - DanBC 8y ago
    (I don't know why you're downvoted). I guess they mean "wash the neck of the bottle". The neck can gather milk that goes off and smells even if the rest of the milk is ok.
  - bambax 8y ago
    Ha! ;-) I don't wash milk; if it smells bad, the whole bottle goes down the drain. But everything that's solid is washable, esp. cheese, meat, etc. And indeed, keeping rice for too long is really not recommended.
- FreeFull 8y ago
  Sometimes milk ends up spoiling before the expiry date, so checking if it's still good is a good idea anyway.
- chobeat 8y ago
  no boiling? My mother always boiled it a little bit and checked how it coagulates.
- tonyarkles 8y ago
  Yeah, it definitely surprised me in my 20s when I'd have a new roommate/girlfriend who would go through the fridge and throw out anything with an overdue best before date. > "Best Before" doesn't mean "Bad After"! At our house now, when we look through the fridge and see something approaching/past its Best Before date, we brainstorm something we can make to use it up before it spoils. Pudding is a great way to use up any quantity of milk. Random Vegetable Soup: throw all of the questionable vegetables in to the Instant Pot with some chicken stock, pressure cook for 10 minutes, blend with a stick mixer. If cheese grows a bit of mold, we just cut it off and put it in a new container. Meat gets kept in a fridge that is just a hair too cold, and either gets used right away or frozen. Writing all of this, I just realized that we produce very little food waste here. Occasionally some leftovers are forgotten in the back of the fridge and get moldy, but that's pretty rare.
  - bitexploder 8y ago
    Cheese though. Obviously it probably won’t make you sick, but when you see mold on the surface it has permeated the cheese. Recommend throwing it out. All the other stuff you mentioned is fine.
    - droopyEyelids 8y ago
      I’ve lived my whole life breaking this advice. No ill effects yet!
      - stevekemp 8y ago
        Me too, more often in my student days rather than recent past though. If I found mould on my cheese I'd just slice it off, and eat the rest. (Though now I think about it, if I saw bread with mould on it I'd throw the whole loaf away.)
        bazooka2th 8y ago
        I agree, the bread-type mold must be different from the cheese-type. Maybe the loose structure of the bread makes it easy for the mold to spread thin and quick through the air gaps, while in cheese it propagates more slowly. Idk, but if there's mold on one part of the loaf the whole thing smells funky.
- benj111 8y ago
  Yeah off milk smell is really obvious. The only thing that I'm aware you should be really careful about is leftover rice. Bacteria can produce a toxin which isn't destroyed by heat and can be deadly. I cant think of any other counter examples to where, if it isn't obviously off, it's ok.
test001only 8y ago
Having come from tropical country and currently living in a country towards north, I find it extremely difficult to get anything fermented because of how it is cold during significant part of the year.
- pthreads 8y ago
  If you like to make yogurt at home then I highly recommend getting yourself a multifunction electric pressure cooker. You probably can get dedicated yogurt makers but I prefer the pressure cooker even though yogurt is made at normal pressure and low temperature since it is great for cooking many other things. Homemade yogurt tastes so much better to me than store-bought!
  - ddaa10 8y ago
    Some electric ovens also have the ability to "cook" at low, precisely controlled, temperature for several hours, which makes it possible to produce yogurt.
    - tom_mellior 8y ago
      I've had success just turning on my electric oven to its lowest possible temperature to heat the yogurt for a while, then switching it off and leaving it overnight. It's not rocket science, and people have been making yogurt without laboratory-grade precision for millennia.
      - vram22 8y ago
        Exactly. Zillions of housewives and nowadays probably singles, househusbands, students or employees living together, or anyone else, have been making curd (Indian term for yogurt) for ages, without thinking it is any big deal. The basic steps in warm parts of India (which is much of India) are easy: - boil some milk, say half a liter to 2 liters or so (or it was already boiled for other use and cooled, warm it up some) - add a spoonful or so of the previous batch of yogurt to it (the starter) - leave it covered to sit in some place in your house which is at the right temperature for fermentation to not only happen but be facilitated - this could be a cooler part of the house or a warmer part, depending on what climate you live in - wait for some hours, maybe half a day or so - eat it
xkapastel 8y ago
This article was frustrating because it danced around my main issue: I'd be worried about getting sick. There was maybe one sentence that acknowledged this: > I think the fear of contamination and making one’s self sick is the biggest barrier. This is a big deal, but the article makes light of it, doesn't even give it its own section, and instead presents a bunch of flowery prose about making death a part of life. As one example of this, how are you supposed to protect these fermented foods from pests? I get the sense you're supposed to leave them out, uncovered, but that assumes you live in an area that allows you to do that.
- ddaa10 8y ago
  Here, we do all fermentations indoors. Leaven is happy in a small jar, just let the cover on top, unscrewed to prevent pressure buildup. When stored in the fridge, you can screw the cover, only not too tightly. Vegetable pickles are happy in a mason jar (or Le Parfait jar, in France), just open carefully a few times at the start of the fermentation to let the gas out. We ferment kefir and kombucha for several days (kefir) or weeks (kombucha) at ambient temperature in a large (~2 litres) jar, covered in gauze to stop airborne contamination and flies. I imagine fermenting things outdoors would be a bit more tricky, mainly because you need stop things bigger and smarter than fruit flies.
- peterwwillis 8y ago
  I'm no expert, but here are some details. If microorganisms gather on the surface of your fermented food in large enough numbers that you can see them, you have two choices: (A) try to save it, or (B) throw it out. If you don't see any, then there hasn't been an environment suitable for them to grow, meaning they aren't there in nearly enough numbers to get you sick. As far as pests, you're generally expected to cover your fermentation somehow. Something like a tea towel or cheese cloth can work, or even a pot lid, probably depending on the fermentation in question. Just follow the instructions and it should turn out okay, but I don't see any reason to keep it uncovered.
- SirensOfTitan 8y ago
  > As one example of this, how are you supposed to protect these fermented foods from pests? I get the sense you're supposed to leave them out, uncovered, but that assumes you live in an area that allows you to do that. Typically the recommendation is doing ferments indoors with a cloth on top to protect from pests. I use jars with one-way valves that allows gas out but not in. Vegetables are covered in natural microbes and you don't have to keep them uncovered or out. I do my ferments in a city apartment with no issues. :)
ddaa10 8y ago
Love this article. I have been doing home sourdough for years. A couple of years ago my partner got kefir grains from a relative, and she's been using it weekly. A few months ago we got a kombucha mother when giving away a rescued kitten, and the second batch (kombucha, not kitten) is in progress. She also started fermenting vegetables (carrots, cabbage, so far), that's great for spicing up salads. Hint: do not throw away mature leaven, keep it in a jar in the fridge, it makes awesome waffles. Really, every household should be doing fermentations. It's easy, tasty, rewarding, safe and very good for your gut microbiome.
- MegaDeKay 8y ago
  "Hint: do not throw away mature leaven, keep it in a jar in the fridge, it makes awesome waffles." So much this!!! This recipe is my goto and my lunch for today (might as well just shred my other waffle recipes). Which is your tried and true? https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/01/bread-baking-sourdough-waffles-recipe.html https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/01/bread-baking-sou... Try a kraut of 2/3 cabbage and 1/3 onion with 2% salt by weight and some caraway seeds tossed in (that onion can also be 2/3 white and 1/3 red). I like this a lot better than no onion kraut. Would also highly recommend you look into making your own kimchi. The stuff is freaking delicious and can go on most anything. Baked potato? Check. On Tamago Kake Gohan? Check. Panini? Check. Nachos? Check. I'm not 100% convinced that ferments are good for the gut microbiome. There is some thought that a lot of the beneficial stuff gets killed off in the stomach and the rest gets simply overwhelmed by the existing gut flora you've already got. But it probably can't hurt (except maybe for the salt that comes along for the ride if you have salt sensitve hypertension - fermenters don't talk about this much). Whatever. I am 100% convinced that fermentation = deliciousness and that is what is most important to me.
  - ddaa10 8y ago
    Here's the recipe I use: https://www.byacb4you.com/gaufres-au-levain.html https://www.byacb4you.com/gaufres-au-levain.html Yeah, it's in French. Thanks for the kraut advice!
SirensOfTitan 8y ago
I got seriously into fermentation several months ago. I really enjoy Bon Appetit's "It's Alive with Brad" series, which prompted me to read some of Sandor Katz's books. I'm doing two ferments usually at a time, cycling between: sauerkraut, full-sour dill pickles, Russian pickled tomatoes (my favorite recipe so far has been this Indian-style 'kraut: https://myheartbeets.com/indian-sauerkraut/ https://myheartbeets.com/indian-sauerkraut/). I also started maintaining a sourdough starter. I want to try hot sauce and mead next. There is very little chance of getting sick or infecting oneself with Botulism with active vegetable ferments (i.e. not sanitizing then canning). Vegetables are covered in natural bacteria, and the conditions created inside the ferment make it essentially impossible for Botulism to thrive. Canning can be dangerous because the process of heating (i.e. killing off microbe activity) of a ferment leaves only Botulism because it has spores that protect it from heat. Some meat ferments require more care, and I've heard of some issues with say: fermenting garlic inside of olive oil. Overall, though, fermentation is one of the safest food preparation techniques we know of.
- cproctor 8y ago
  Fermented hot sauce (instead of vinegar) is a revelation, and not hard to get right!
  - vram22 8y ago
    What kind of hot sauce is that? Sounds like a generic term (a sauce with heat from spices or chillies/chiles), but I suspect it may mean something more specific in the West, because of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_sauce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_sauce
    - scrumbledober 8y ago
      Lactofermented hot sauce is just Chili's and salt and water left to ferment. Comes out something somewhere between Tabasco and Sriracha.
      - 8y ago
rmm 8y ago
Love fermenting. So good for you too. Easiest sauerkraut. Get cabbage. Shred it. Add some salt and chuck it in a jar. Then wait. I love kefir too. Just milk and some kefir grains replaced daily. Can get addictive quick though. Before you know it you have jars of pickles, tomatoes, kimchi everywhere
- imglorp 8y ago
  > Easiest sauerkraut. Get cabbage. Shred it. Add some salt and chuck it in a jar. Then wait. And if you add a bunch of chili powder, it's kimchi.
  - MegaDeKay 8y ago
    No. Then it is sauerkraut with chili powder on top. But I will admit that saying there is only one kind of kimchi is like saying there is only one kind of car. source: my homemade kimchi sitting in my fridge right now has napa cabbage, daikon radish, green onion, ginger, garlic, gochugaru, carrot, sweet rice flour, fish sauce, asian pear, and some other stuff I'm forgetting right now.
anonu 8y ago
The article makes it sound like fermentation is some far off concept and modern life has made it difficult to ferment things. Fermentation is all around us. If you eat bread or drink beer, you can thank fermentation. Also the author references the "ethics" of fermentation. Give me a break...
- MegaDeKay 8y ago
  I don't think the article says it is difficult. I think it more laments the fact that it is a bit of a lost art and that some people are afraid of its safety (as comments to this article can confirm). If more people took the time to give it a shot, more people would get hooked on it and do more of it. I swear that sauerkraut is like a gateway drug. The ethics stuff in the article comes off a bit strong to me though. My ferments are a bit like a pet. Heck, many people name their sourdough cultures!
  - anonu 8y ago
    From the article: "Modern life makes fermentation unintuitive and difficult." I bake bread and brew beer at home. If you search Youtube for these topics there is no lack of DIY videos... Youtube never ceases to amaze me because you can deep dive into almost any topic - even something as mundane as baking bread.
kyleperik 8y ago
Recently I've been trying out fermentation with sourdough, ginger beer, kefir and anything else I can find to try out. It has many upsides, preservation, it's healthy and it's fun. In my opinion this article goes a bit too far, it's not a religion. It's just a diet that more people should know about and practice these days.
ajmurmann 8y ago
I've been experimenting with fermentation on and off over the years. Every time something goes wrong I get so put off that I stop fermenting anything for a year or so. I think the article does a great job at explaining how fermentation really clashes with our culture. Outside of the fermentation context or community you will hear guidelines like having to throw out food that was left out for longer than two hours. It's very hard to consolidate these two. Food safety guidelines in a way are infantilizing us by being overly simplistic and not giving us ways and learning experience that allow us to determine if something is truly not edible. If we get trained to throw out food that's not actually bad, of course disease agents in food become this invisible force that might kill us when eating anything after the expiry date. Let alone something that was on the counter for the week and now has bubbles that somehow look unexpected. On top of that most of us will have had food poisoning from restaurant food where you didn't actually get to see the potentially spoiled ingredients before it was used in a dish. So an experience where you got sick from food that seemed totally fine to you. You might have actually refused to eat it if you had seen or smelled the raw ingredients that ended up making you sick, but we aren't getting those experiences anymore.
m0zg 8y ago
There's another kind of fermentation: beer. I learned to make my own beer last summer. The first few batches were barely drinkable, but I'm glad I didn't stop there. I'm getting pretty good by now. The process is rather simple once you get a hang of it, but it does require patience: 6 weeks for most ales, longer for lagers (which I don't brew because they're harder to get right, and IMO not as tasty). It's also incredibly therapeutic, for me at least, especially if you drink a couple of cold ones from an older batch on the brew day. Relatively cheap and satisfying hobby. All you need is a large stock pot (4 gallons), 2 3-gallon glass carboys, 5 gallon cooler from Home Depot, gravity pump, some nylon bags (large for grain, small for boiling hops), and coiled copper tubing chiller. Sub-$250 all in all. With this primitive gear you can make ~2.5 gallons of beer every 2 weeks once you establish the pipeline (which takes 6 weeks).
known 8y ago
Fermented foods should be avoided if you have gastric ulcers

183 points by colinprince 8y ago

Excellent article! The first 3 § are a little off-putting but then it gets great. This amused me: "She grew up in a family where, when concerned if the milk was OK, they wouldn’t look at the expiry date but instead sniff it." Everyone in our family always did this and so do I; I never realized people did otherwise. If it smells good (or doesn't smell at all), eat it. If it smells kind of bad, wash it. If it still smells bad after washing, then throw away.

homarp 8y ago
how do you wash milk ?
- Frye 8y ago
  Luke warm water for 45 seconds
- DanBC 8y ago
  (I don't know why you're downvoted). I guess they mean "wash the neck of the bottle". The neck can gather milk that goes off and smells even if the rest of the milk is ok.
- bambax 8y ago
  Ha! ;-) I don't wash milk; if it smells bad, the whole bottle goes down the drain. But everything that's solid is washable, esp. cheese, meat, etc. And indeed, keeping rice for too long is really not recommended.
FreeFull 8y ago
Sometimes milk ends up spoiling before the expiry date, so checking if it's still good is a good idea anyway.
chobeat 8y ago
no boiling? My mother always boiled it a little bit and checked how it coagulates.
tonyarkles 8y ago
Yeah, it definitely surprised me in my 20s when I'd have a new roommate/girlfriend who would go through the fridge and throw out anything with an overdue best before date. > "Best Before" doesn't mean "Bad After"! At our house now, when we look through the fridge and see something approaching/past its Best Before date, we brainstorm something we can make to use it up before it spoils. Pudding is a great way to use up any quantity of milk. Random Vegetable Soup: throw all of the questionable vegetables in to the Instant Pot with some chicken stock, pressure cook for 10 minutes, blend with a stick mixer. If cheese grows a bit of mold, we just cut it off and put it in a new container. Meat gets kept in a fridge that is just a hair too cold, and either gets used right away or frozen. Writing all of this, I just realized that we produce very little food waste here. Occasionally some leftovers are forgotten in the back of the fridge and get moldy, but that's pretty rare.
- bitexploder 8y ago
  Cheese though. Obviously it probably won’t make you sick, but when you see mold on the surface it has permeated the cheese. Recommend throwing it out. All the other stuff you mentioned is fine.
  - droopyEyelids 8y ago
    I’ve lived my whole life breaking this advice. No ill effects yet!
    - stevekemp 8y ago
      Me too, more often in my student days rather than recent past though. If I found mould on my cheese I'd just slice it off, and eat the rest. (Though now I think about it, if I saw bread with mould on it I'd throw the whole loaf away.)
      - bazooka2th 8y ago
        I agree, the bread-type mold must be different from the cheese-type. Maybe the loose structure of the bread makes it easy for the mold to spread thin and quick through the air gaps, while in cheese it propagates more slowly. Idk, but if there's mold on one part of the loaf the whole thing smells funky.
benj111 8y ago
Yeah off milk smell is really obvious. The only thing that I'm aware you should be really careful about is leftover rice. Bacteria can produce a toxin which isn't destroyed by heat and can be deadly. I cant think of any other counter examples to where, if it isn't obviously off, it's ok.

test001only 8y ago

Having come from tropical country and currently living in a country towards north, I find it extremely difficult to get anything fermented because of how it is cold during significant part of the year.

pthreads 8y ago
If you like to make yogurt at home then I highly recommend getting yourself a multifunction electric pressure cooker. You probably can get dedicated yogurt makers but I prefer the pressure cooker even though yogurt is made at normal pressure and low temperature since it is great for cooking many other things. Homemade yogurt tastes so much better to me than store-bought!
- ddaa10 8y ago
  Some electric ovens also have the ability to "cook" at low, precisely controlled, temperature for several hours, which makes it possible to produce yogurt.
  - tom_mellior 8y ago
    I've had success just turning on my electric oven to its lowest possible temperature to heat the yogurt for a while, then switching it off and leaving it overnight. It's not rocket science, and people have been making yogurt without laboratory-grade precision for millennia.
    - vram22 8y ago
      Exactly. Zillions of housewives and nowadays probably singles, househusbands, students or employees living together, or anyone else, have been making curd (Indian term for yogurt) for ages, without thinking it is any big deal. The basic steps in warm parts of India (which is much of India) are easy: - boil some milk, say half a liter to 2 liters or so (or it was already boiled for other use and cooled, warm it up some) - add a spoonful or so of the previous batch of yogurt to it (the starter) - leave it covered to sit in some place in your house which is at the right temperature for fermentation to not only happen but be facilitated - this could be a cooler part of the house or a warmer part, depending on what climate you live in - wait for some hours, maybe half a day or so - eat it

xkapastel 8y ago

This article was frustrating because it danced around my main issue: I'd be worried about getting sick. There was maybe one sentence that acknowledged this: > I think the fear of contamination and making one’s self sick is the biggest barrier. This is a big deal, but the article makes light of it, doesn't even give it its own section, and instead presents a bunch of flowery prose about making death a part of life. As one example of this, how are you supposed to protect these fermented foods from pests? I get the sense you're supposed to leave them out, uncovered, but that assumes you live in an area that allows you to do that.

ddaa10 8y ago
Here, we do all fermentations indoors. Leaven is happy in a small jar, just let the cover on top, unscrewed to prevent pressure buildup. When stored in the fridge, you can screw the cover, only not too tightly. Vegetable pickles are happy in a mason jar (or Le Parfait jar, in France), just open carefully a few times at the start of the fermentation to let the gas out. We ferment kefir and kombucha for several days (kefir) or weeks (kombucha) at ambient temperature in a large (~2 litres) jar, covered in gauze to stop airborne contamination and flies. I imagine fermenting things outdoors would be a bit more tricky, mainly because you need stop things bigger and smarter than fruit flies.
peterwwillis 8y ago
I'm no expert, but here are some details. If microorganisms gather on the surface of your fermented food in large enough numbers that you can see them, you have two choices: (A) try to save it, or (B) throw it out. If you don't see any, then there hasn't been an environment suitable for them to grow, meaning they aren't there in nearly enough numbers to get you sick. As far as pests, you're generally expected to cover your fermentation somehow. Something like a tea towel or cheese cloth can work, or even a pot lid, probably depending on the fermentation in question. Just follow the instructions and it should turn out okay, but I don't see any reason to keep it uncovered.
SirensOfTitan 8y ago
> As one example of this, how are you supposed to protect these fermented foods from pests? I get the sense you're supposed to leave them out, uncovered, but that assumes you live in an area that allows you to do that. Typically the recommendation is doing ferments indoors with a cloth on top to protect from pests. I use jars with one-way valves that allows gas out but not in. Vegetables are covered in natural microbes and you don't have to keep them uncovered or out. I do my ferments in a city apartment with no issues. :)

ddaa10 8y ago

Love this article. I have been doing home sourdough for years. A couple of years ago my partner got kefir grains from a relative, and she's been using it weekly. A few months ago we got a kombucha mother when giving away a rescued kitten, and the second batch (kombucha, not kitten) is in progress. She also started fermenting vegetables (carrots, cabbage, so far), that's great for spicing up salads. Hint: do not throw away mature leaven, keep it in a jar in the fridge, it makes awesome waffles. Really, every household should be doing fermentations. It's easy, tasty, rewarding, safe and very good for your gut microbiome.

MegaDeKay 8y ago
"Hint: do not throw away mature leaven, keep it in a jar in the fridge, it makes awesome waffles." So much this!!! This recipe is my goto and my lunch for today (might as well just shred my other waffle recipes). Which is your tried and true? https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/01/bread-baking-sourdough-waffles-recipe.html https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/01/bread-baking-sou... Try a kraut of 2/3 cabbage and 1/3 onion with 2% salt by weight and some caraway seeds tossed in (that onion can also be 2/3 white and 1/3 red). I like this a lot better than no onion kraut. Would also highly recommend you look into making your own kimchi. The stuff is freaking delicious and can go on most anything. Baked potato? Check. On Tamago Kake Gohan? Check. Panini? Check. Nachos? Check. I'm not 100% convinced that ferments are good for the gut microbiome. There is some thought that a lot of the beneficial stuff gets killed off in the stomach and the rest gets simply overwhelmed by the existing gut flora you've already got. But it probably can't hurt (except maybe for the salt that comes along for the ride if you have salt sensitve hypertension - fermenters don't talk about this much). Whatever. I am 100% convinced that fermentation = deliciousness and that is what is most important to me.
- ddaa10 8y ago
  Here's the recipe I use: https://www.byacb4you.com/gaufres-au-levain.html https://www.byacb4you.com/gaufres-au-levain.html Yeah, it's in French. Thanks for the kraut advice!

SirensOfTitan 8y ago

I got seriously into fermentation several months ago. I really enjoy Bon Appetit's "It's Alive with Brad" series, which prompted me to read some of Sandor Katz's books. I'm doing two ferments usually at a time, cycling between: sauerkraut, full-sour dill pickles, Russian pickled tomatoes (my favorite recipe so far has been this Indian-style 'kraut: https://myheartbeets.com/indian-sauerkraut/ https://myheartbeets.com/indian-sauerkraut/). I also started maintaining a sourdough starter. I want to try hot sauce and mead next. There is very little chance of getting sick or infecting oneself with Botulism with active vegetable ferments (i.e. not sanitizing then canning). Vegetables are covered in natural bacteria, and the conditions created inside the ferment make it essentially impossible for Botulism to thrive. Canning can be dangerous because the process of heating (i.e. killing off microbe activity) of a ferment leaves only Botulism because it has spores that protect it from heat. Some meat ferments require more care, and I've heard of some issues with say: fermenting garlic inside of olive oil. Overall, though, fermentation is one of the safest food preparation techniques we know of.

cproctor 8y ago
Fermented hot sauce (instead of vinegar) is a revelation, and not hard to get right!
- vram22 8y ago
  What kind of hot sauce is that? Sounds like a generic term (a sauce with heat from spices or chillies/chiles), but I suspect it may mean something more specific in the West, because of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_sauce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_sauce
  - scrumbledober 8y ago
    Lactofermented hot sauce is just Chili's and salt and water left to ferment. Comes out something somewhere between Tabasco and Sriracha.
    - 8y ago

rmm 8y ago

Love fermenting. So good for you too. Easiest sauerkraut. Get cabbage. Shred it. Add some salt and chuck it in a jar. Then wait. I love kefir too. Just milk and some kefir grains replaced daily. Can get addictive quick though. Before you know it you have jars of pickles, tomatoes, kimchi everywhere

imglorp 8y ago
> Easiest sauerkraut. Get cabbage. Shred it. Add some salt and chuck it in a jar. Then wait. And if you add a bunch of chili powder, it's kimchi.
- MegaDeKay 8y ago
  No. Then it is sauerkraut with chili powder on top. But I will admit that saying there is only one kind of kimchi is like saying there is only one kind of car. source: my homemade kimchi sitting in my fridge right now has napa cabbage, daikon radish, green onion, ginger, garlic, gochugaru, carrot, sweet rice flour, fish sauce, asian pear, and some other stuff I'm forgetting right now.

anonu 8y ago

The article makes it sound like fermentation is some far off concept and modern life has made it difficult to ferment things. Fermentation is all around us. If you eat bread or drink beer, you can thank fermentation. Also the author references the "ethics" of fermentation. Give me a break...

MegaDeKay 8y ago
I don't think the article says it is difficult. I think it more laments the fact that it is a bit of a lost art and that some people are afraid of its safety (as comments to this article can confirm). If more people took the time to give it a shot, more people would get hooked on it and do more of it. I swear that sauerkraut is like a gateway drug. The ethics stuff in the article comes off a bit strong to me though. My ferments are a bit like a pet. Heck, many people name their sourdough cultures!
- anonu 8y ago
  From the article: "Modern life makes fermentation unintuitive and difficult." I bake bread and brew beer at home. If you search Youtube for these topics there is no lack of DIY videos... Youtube never ceases to amaze me because you can deep dive into almost any topic - even something as mundane as baking bread.

kyleperik 8y ago

Recently I've been trying out fermentation with sourdough, ginger beer, kefir and anything else I can find to try out. It has many upsides, preservation, it's healthy and it's fun. In my opinion this article goes a bit too far, it's not a religion. It's just a diet that more people should know about and practice these days.

ajmurmann 8y ago

I've been experimenting with fermentation on and off over the years. Every time something goes wrong I get so put off that I stop fermenting anything for a year or so. I think the article does a great job at explaining how fermentation really clashes with our culture. Outside of the fermentation context or community you will hear guidelines like having to throw out food that was left out for longer than two hours. It's very hard to consolidate these two. Food safety guidelines in a way are infantilizing us by being overly simplistic and not giving us ways and learning experience that allow us to determine if something is truly not edible. If we get trained to throw out food that's not actually bad, of course disease agents in food become this invisible force that might kill us when eating anything after the expiry date. Let alone something that was on the counter for the week and now has bubbles that somehow look unexpected. On top of that most of us will have had food poisoning from restaurant food where you didn't actually get to see the potentially spoiled ingredients before it was used in a dish. So an experience where you got sick from food that seemed totally fine to you. You might have actually refused to eat it if you had seen or smelled the raw ingredients that ended up making you sick, but we aren't getting those experiences anymore.

m0zg 8y ago

There's another kind of fermentation: beer. I learned to make my own beer last summer. The first few batches were barely drinkable, but I'm glad I didn't stop there. I'm getting pretty good by now. The process is rather simple once you get a hang of it, but it does require patience: 6 weeks for most ales, longer for lagers (which I don't brew because they're harder to get right, and IMO not as tasty). It's also incredibly therapeutic, for me at least, especially if you drink a couple of cold ones from an older batch on the brew day. Relatively cheap and satisfying hobby. All you need is a large stock pot (4 gallons), 2 3-gallon glass carboys, 5 gallon cooler from Home Depot, gravity pump, some nylon bags (large for grain, small for boiling hops), and coiled copper tubing chiller. Sub-$250 all in all. With this primitive gear you can make ~2.5 gallons of beer every 2 weeks once you establish the pipeline (which takes 6 weeks).

known 8y ago

Fermented foods should be avoided if you have gastric ulcers