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Aside from urgency, it's also likely that wind, solar and hydro, even if deployed maximally, might not be able to meet the total peak demand every where. Renewa

Aside from urgency, it's also likely that wind, solar and hydro, even if deployed maximally, might not be able to meet the total peak demand every where. Renewable are obviously superior but for that gaps, we will need fission anyway. Fission plants have a finite lifespan anyway so if fusion or space laser or whatever appear, openings will be appearing constantly.

captainbland 8y ago
It might just be right that if renewables can't meet current demand, prices go that bit higher to keep usage in line. It's not a given that we must consume as much as we do (or more) forever given the finite nature of the planet and everything.
- gwbas1c 8y ago
  That really hurts the crowd that lives paycheck to paycheck. Price goes up: someone goes without.
  - fyfy18 8y ago
    What is electricity prices went up with usage? So you get X kWh per month for one price, then after that it's 1.5x the rate. You could just do this on residential rates only so businesses aren't affected.
    - frankietwenty9 8y ago
      why remove the incentive for businesses to optimize their energy usage? They have as much if not more external costs as a residential home.
      - captainbland 8y ago
        If anything it is most important to apply this to businesses. Most consumer choice related emissions, as it's often framed, is taken through the proxy of a business that hasn't optimised their energy output to this extent. This is all the more relevant when you consider that consumers often don't have visibility over the practices of the business that they're interacting with, and particularly that of the supply chain further down the line. Like are all these lit up signs really necessary for any businesses to function, do you think? Or are they just trying to stay visible in a sea of neon?
        TheKarateKid 8y ago
        Exactly. How about offices that keep the lights on or half-dimmed all night, as well as the computers running? Businesses are often the most wasteful.
    - TheKarateKid 8y ago
      Uber surge pricing on a basic living utility? No thanks. Same issue as with fuel - the wealthy people who are often the most wasteful with resources (driving Hummers and V8/10 SUVs and cars, private jets, etc.) are the ones who would be affected the least because the price wouldn't impact their habits. Meanwhile, a middle/low-class family would be paying 1.5x the rate to keep the lights on home.
      - Dylan16807 8y ago
        Price based on monthly total use is the opposite of surge pricing. If those wealthy people are happy to pay a 5x or 10x rate, you can use it to install tons of renewables (with batteries). That's not something to complain about. > Meanwhile, a middle/low-class family would be paying 1.5x the rate to keep the lights on home. If it's not low, middle, or upper class, who do you imagine is paying the 1x rate?
    - gwbas1c 8y ago
      That's a good way to encourage the middle class to conserve. Subsidies are needed for the poor.
  - OscarCunningham 8y ago
    But why not redistribute money, and let people choose what to spend it on, rather than having a separate system to distribute each individual resource?
  - captainbland 8y ago
    Not as much as it'll hurt the crowd living in locations that are likely to be totally wiped off the map in the event that we fail to mitigate the issue which is still likely. But independent of this, I'm pro wealth-redistribution at any rate so really I see the solution to the paycheck to paycheck problem in terms of that. Massive investment in switching to green energy should also help by creating good jobs, as well. The largest bulk of excess emissions doesn't appear to come from individual habits so much as structural industrial practices - things like producing things far overseas and shipping them by oil tanker, electricity production still being heavily reliant on coal, commutes being effectively mandated for many workers as their work doesn't pay them enough to live close to their job - or their job being doable remotely but corporate policy preventing workers from taking advantage of that (to both the benefit of their free time and health as well as the environment). So it seems unfair that working people should be punished for something they have limited power over.
efini 8y ago
Perhaps not meeting peak energy demands and instituting "selective blackouts" for a few hours each day is the break we need from technology's intrusive reach

captainbland 8y ago

It might just be right that if renewables can't meet current demand, prices go that bit higher to keep usage in line. It's not a given that we must consume as much as we do (or more) forever given the finite nature of the planet and everything.

gwbas1c 8y ago
That really hurts the crowd that lives paycheck to paycheck. Price goes up: someone goes without.
- fyfy18 8y ago
  What is electricity prices went up with usage? So you get X kWh per month for one price, then after that it's 1.5x the rate. You could just do this on residential rates only so businesses aren't affected.
  - frankietwenty9 8y ago
    why remove the incentive for businesses to optimize their energy usage? They have as much if not more external costs as a residential home.
    - captainbland 8y ago
      If anything it is most important to apply this to businesses. Most consumer choice related emissions, as it's often framed, is taken through the proxy of a business that hasn't optimised their energy output to this extent. This is all the more relevant when you consider that consumers often don't have visibility over the practices of the business that they're interacting with, and particularly that of the supply chain further down the line. Like are all these lit up signs really necessary for any businesses to function, do you think? Or are they just trying to stay visible in a sea of neon?
      - TheKarateKid 8y ago
        Exactly. How about offices that keep the lights on or half-dimmed all night, as well as the computers running? Businesses are often the most wasteful.
  - TheKarateKid 8y ago
    Uber surge pricing on a basic living utility? No thanks. Same issue as with fuel - the wealthy people who are often the most wasteful with resources (driving Hummers and V8/10 SUVs and cars, private jets, etc.) are the ones who would be affected the least because the price wouldn't impact their habits. Meanwhile, a middle/low-class family would be paying 1.5x the rate to keep the lights on home.
    - Dylan16807 8y ago
      Price based on monthly total use is the opposite of surge pricing. If those wealthy people are happy to pay a 5x or 10x rate, you can use it to install tons of renewables (with batteries). That's not something to complain about. > Meanwhile, a middle/low-class family would be paying 1.5x the rate to keep the lights on home. If it's not low, middle, or upper class, who do you imagine is paying the 1x rate?
  - gwbas1c 8y ago
    That's a good way to encourage the middle class to conserve. Subsidies are needed for the poor.
- OscarCunningham 8y ago
  But why not redistribute money, and let people choose what to spend it on, rather than having a separate system to distribute each individual resource?
- captainbland 8y ago
  Not as much as it'll hurt the crowd living in locations that are likely to be totally wiped off the map in the event that we fail to mitigate the issue which is still likely. But independent of this, I'm pro wealth-redistribution at any rate so really I see the solution to the paycheck to paycheck problem in terms of that. Massive investment in switching to green energy should also help by creating good jobs, as well. The largest bulk of excess emissions doesn't appear to come from individual habits so much as structural industrial practices - things like producing things far overseas and shipping them by oil tanker, electricity production still being heavily reliant on coal, commutes being effectively mandated for many workers as their work doesn't pay them enough to live close to their job - or their job being doable remotely but corporate policy preventing workers from taking advantage of that (to both the benefit of their free time and health as well as the environment). So it seems unfair that working people should be punished for something they have limited power over.

efini 8y ago

Perhaps not meeting peak energy demands and instituting "selective blackouts" for a few hours each day is the break we need from technology's intrusive reach