6 ms·

They Own the System: Amazon Rewrites Book Industry by Marching into Publishing

77 points by marvindanig 8y ago

drwl 8y ago
Why is this a link to another Reddit/HN looking site than the article itself?
- marvindanig 8y ago
  I run that site: it’s focused on books—a hacker news of books sorts. Of course HN is a much bigger assembly...
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    I had a look..nice! I missed mention of its launch on here, about a month ago? Good luck with that!
    - marvindanig 8y ago
      Thank you!
  - mmanfrin 8y ago
    Original question still stands, why is that the url linked and not the actual article? The fact that you run the site makes it worse, as this is blatant self promotion masquerading as a real post.
    - marvindanig 8y ago
      The discussion on this thread started due to the discussion on the link that is shared. I could have added this fact on my response earlier, but I thought it was obvious.
- prostoalex 8y ago
  If I had to guess, it has to do with the WSJ paywall, as the original article received no upvotes https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18957737 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18957737
legatus 8y ago
The real link would be this one: https://www.wsj.com/articles/they-own-the-system-amazon-rewrites-book-industry-by-turning-into-a-publisher-11547655267 https://www.wsj.com/articles/they-own-the-system-amazon-rewr... Here is the outline'd version: https://outline.com/Km9vL4 https://outline.com/Km9vL4
angstrom 8y ago
Good, now maybe they can fix the textbook industry which is woefully inept.
- marvindanig 8y ago
  Not that there is an incentive for Amazon’s to be or remain efficient though!
lordnacho 8y ago
Was thinking there would be more about using their data. They could make some predictions of the form {author, subject, language, etc} -> likely sales. From there they could make a sensible guess as to the advance to offer the author. And of course authors could throw their proposals in the machine and get an offer. I suppose something like this must already exist?
- yesenadam 8y ago
  Reminds me of a cartoon I once saw (in the window of Gleebooks in Sydney) - a publisher in an extravagant office saying to a humble author "Give me a novel of 200,000 words that oversteps the bounds of common decency." (something like that, can't find it online now)
chrismeller 8y ago
So their example is a book that got rejected by mainstream NYC publishers and was bought by Amazon for “low five figures”, which is actually damned good if you’re not a name brand (and if you are you’d rather the royalties anyway). They’ve also offered self publishing that, while obviously not offering anything near that in advances or royalties, is an out for everyone else with potentially unlimited upward mobility. So yes, they have the retail market. If they choose to publish and market the hell out of an unknown title it absolutely could be an overwhelming success. Is that really different than any other publishing house, though? You could argue that their barrier to entry is a bit lower because they own two arms of the chain and can more quickly cut their losses if it doesn’t work out, but really wouldn’t it have been the same if Penguin, Simon, or Harper had picked it up? They’d have marketed the hell out of it just like Amazon. I guess my point is that, just like any industry, there are times where a potential winner isn’t picked up by a major league team and then wins big for an underdog. I just don’t see how Amazon being the “underdog” is relevant here other than being Amazon.
- ams6110 8y ago
  Amazon can advertise for free though on their own platform, unlike other publishers. Since Amazon is basically the only place anyone buys books anymore, that's huge. Barnes & Noble just closed here. There's no dedicated book store within 50 miles of me now. I suspect many who don't live in major cities are in a similar situation and probably have been for some time now.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - cordite 8y ago
    Is it really free for them if such displaces promotions by others?
    - evanmoran 8y ago
      It's not free, but it's much cheaper than the cost a normal publisher would spend to get the same exposure.
ddebernardy 8y ago
Perhaps this is because I've only ever heard about Amazon's march into publishing through interviews of authors and competitors, but the narrative I've picked up seems to revolve around Amazon actually being a terrible publisher. By which I mean you basically never know what you're buying if you're a reader, and they aren't spending a dime to edit or promote you if you're an author. (Not that publishers do those two things much either of late, but that's a different story.) I suppose that's fine when you've a track record as an author. It probably isn't if you're a new author. Any odds there are some authors around who can chime in?
- jjeaff 8y ago
  Are they paying advances? If not, and they are not promoting you either, why would anyone sign with them? You could just self publish and if you don't have the money to have a bunch of books printed, you could just use one of the many print in demand services (including the one offered by Amazon). Edit: It seems that they are paying authors for their books, which for many authors, is a good enough reason to use them as a publisher. Who cares what the other big publishers could/would do for you if none of them will pick up your book.
- throwaway98121 8y ago
  I don't know if they’re a terrible publisher, and honestly I’ve never written a book. I downloaded a picture book for my son that was Amazon published. I remember this because it was free on prime day and it was one of the huge banners on their page that worked even when the site wasn’t working. So they do advertise the books they publish.
airocker 8y ago
They always supported self publishing with CreateSpace. Not sure what changed? Did they start doing Marketing/sales for the books? Article is not readable without login it seems.
jawns 8y ago
Nonfiction author here. Some potential advantages Amazon may have over other traditional publishers: Massive amount of data and high-powered data science. Can help inform decisions about what to buy, how much of an advance to pay, etc. Large coffers. Can take more risks in what to buy and make competitive bids. Priority of placement. Amazon the retailer gets a cut of every sale. Amazon the publisher gets another. Clearly, it makes sense to prioritize Amazon's own titles against similar titles from other publishers, unless sales of the non-Amazon title are expected to be substantially higher. A couple of disadvantages: Agents are wary. They know that cooperating with Amazon is going to threaten the health of every other publisher. At least in the short term, authors are going to perceive having Amazon as a publisher as having less cachet. It's largely known for its self-publishing arm, and authors aren't going to want their books to be misperceived as having been self-published, where quality is pretty abysmal. Don't expect your book to end up in brick-and-mortar bookstores.
takitus 8y ago
if people can't see the conflicts of interest here that are bad for Society and Civilization, they must never have picked up a history book in their entire lives. And whenever I want to read a good history book, I use Audible. Audible.com, the best way to listen to great history books. I'm listening to one right now, about a steel boot stamping into a human face forever. Thanks audible for sponsoring this comment.

77 points by marvindanig 8y ago

drwl 8y ago

Why is this a link to another Reddit/HN looking site than the article itself?

marvindanig 8y ago
I run that site: it’s focused on books—a hacker news of books sorts. Of course HN is a much bigger assembly...
- yesenadam 8y ago
  I had a look..nice! I missed mention of its launch on here, about a month ago? Good luck with that!
  - marvindanig 8y ago
    Thank you!
- mmanfrin 8y ago
  Original question still stands, why is that the url linked and not the actual article? The fact that you run the site makes it worse, as this is blatant self promotion masquerading as a real post.
  - marvindanig 8y ago
    The discussion on this thread started due to the discussion on the link that is shared. I could have added this fact on my response earlier, but I thought it was obvious.
prostoalex 8y ago
If I had to guess, it has to do with the WSJ paywall, as the original article received no upvotes https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18957737 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18957737

legatus 8y ago

The real link would be this one: https://www.wsj.com/articles/they-own-the-system-amazon-rewrites-book-industry-by-turning-into-a-publisher-11547655267 https://www.wsj.com/articles/they-own-the-system-amazon-rewr... Here is the outline'd version: https://outline.com/Km9vL4 https://outline.com/Km9vL4

angstrom 8y ago

Good, now maybe they can fix the textbook industry which is woefully inept.

marvindanig 8y ago
Not that there is an incentive for Amazon’s to be or remain efficient though!

lordnacho 8y ago

Was thinking there would be more about using their data. They could make some predictions of the form {author, subject, language, etc} -> likely sales. From there they could make a sensible guess as to the advance to offer the author. And of course authors could throw their proposals in the machine and get an offer. I suppose something like this must already exist?

yesenadam 8y ago
Reminds me of a cartoon I once saw (in the window of Gleebooks in Sydney) - a publisher in an extravagant office saying to a humble author "Give me a novel of 200,000 words that oversteps the bounds of common decency." (something like that, can't find it online now)

chrismeller 8y ago

So their example is a book that got rejected by mainstream NYC publishers and was bought by Amazon for “low five figures”, which is actually damned good if you’re not a name brand (and if you are you’d rather the royalties anyway). They’ve also offered self publishing that, while obviously not offering anything near that in advances or royalties, is an out for everyone else with potentially unlimited upward mobility. So yes, they have the retail market. If they choose to publish and market the hell out of an unknown title it absolutely could be an overwhelming success. Is that really different than any other publishing house, though? You could argue that their barrier to entry is a bit lower because they own two arms of the chain and can more quickly cut their losses if it doesn’t work out, but really wouldn’t it have been the same if Penguin, Simon, or Harper had picked it up? They’d have marketed the hell out of it just like Amazon. I guess my point is that, just like any industry, there are times where a potential winner isn’t picked up by a major league team and then wins big for an underdog. I just don’t see how Amazon being the “underdog” is relevant here other than being Amazon.

ams6110 8y ago
Amazon can advertise for free though on their own platform, unlike other publishers. Since Amazon is basically the only place anyone buys books anymore, that's huge. Barnes & Noble just closed here. There's no dedicated book store within 50 miles of me now. I suspect many who don't live in major cities are in a similar situation and probably have been for some time now.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- cordite 8y ago
  Is it really free for them if such displaces promotions by others?
  - evanmoran 8y ago
    It's not free, but it's much cheaper than the cost a normal publisher would spend to get the same exposure.

ddebernardy 8y ago

Perhaps this is because I've only ever heard about Amazon's march into publishing through interviews of authors and competitors, but the narrative I've picked up seems to revolve around Amazon actually being a terrible publisher. By which I mean you basically never know what you're buying if you're a reader, and they aren't spending a dime to edit or promote you if you're an author. (Not that publishers do those two things much either of late, but that's a different story.) I suppose that's fine when you've a track record as an author. It probably isn't if you're a new author. Any odds there are some authors around who can chime in?

jjeaff 8y ago
Are they paying advances? If not, and they are not promoting you either, why would anyone sign with them? You could just self publish and if you don't have the money to have a bunch of books printed, you could just use one of the many print in demand services (including the one offered by Amazon). Edit: It seems that they are paying authors for their books, which for many authors, is a good enough reason to use them as a publisher. Who cares what the other big publishers could/would do for you if none of them will pick up your book.
throwaway98121 8y ago
I don't know if they’re a terrible publisher, and honestly I’ve never written a book. I downloaded a picture book for my son that was Amazon published. I remember this because it was free on prime day and it was one of the huge banners on their page that worked even when the site wasn’t working. So they do advertise the books they publish.

airocker 8y ago

They always supported self publishing with CreateSpace. Not sure what changed? Did they start doing Marketing/sales for the books? Article is not readable without login it seems.

jawns 8y ago

Nonfiction author here. Some potential advantages Amazon may have over other traditional publishers: Massive amount of data and high-powered data science. Can help inform decisions about what to buy, how much of an advance to pay, etc. Large coffers. Can take more risks in what to buy and make competitive bids. Priority of placement. Amazon the retailer gets a cut of every sale. Amazon the publisher gets another. Clearly, it makes sense to prioritize Amazon's own titles against similar titles from other publishers, unless sales of the non-Amazon title are expected to be substantially higher. A couple of disadvantages: Agents are wary. They know that cooperating with Amazon is going to threaten the health of every other publisher. At least in the short term, authors are going to perceive having Amazon as a publisher as having less cachet. It's largely known for its self-publishing arm, and authors aren't going to want their books to be misperceived as having been self-published, where quality is pretty abysmal. Don't expect your book to end up in brick-and-mortar bookstores.

takitus 8y ago

if people can't see the conflicts of interest here that are bad for Society and Civilization, they must never have picked up a history book in their entire lives. And whenever I want to read a good history book, I use Audible. Audible.com, the best way to listen to great history books. I'm listening to one right now, about a steel boot stamping into a human face forever. Thanks audible for sponsoring this comment.