7 ms·
The NYT at least lets you use PayPal. When I wanted to cancel I couldn't even get through to a rep, so I just switched my payment method to PayPal and then deau
by bennylope 8y ago
The NYT at least lets you use PayPal. When I wanted to cancel I couldn't even get through to a rep, so I just switched my payment method to PayPal and then deauthorized the recurring payment from PayPal.
- towelr34dy 8y agoSo much this. I LOVE paypal as a user because of it. All my subscriptions go through it and if it isn't offered via paypal, I'll reconsider. I love to see a list of all my subscriptions with the ability to unilaterally cancel my subscription at any time via PayPal... I never even contact the companies I 'unsubscribe' from... I simply remove their access to my paypal.
- p2t2p 8y agoI've recently paid for a VPN subscription using BitCoin. When you do BitCoin there is no auto renewal and I consider it to be a good thing. EDIT: s/now/no
- artursapek 8y agoIt's a pita for the service provider who is implementing the subscription logic, but as the customer it's pretty sweet.
- michaelt 8y agoIsn't the logic the same as a gift subscription? Just at the payment stage you send them to BitPay instead of Paypal?
- artursapek 8y agoThe main difference is customers will send the BTC a few minutes too late, and then it turns into this situation where it has to be refunded. This used to be an extra step when using Stripe for BTC payments (they have since stopped supporting BTC payments completely)
- parfamz 8y agoWhich provider?
- p2t2p 8y agoIt was PIA - PrivateInternetAccess. I first tried ExpressVPN and for privacy I'd recommend ExpressVPN because they located in a place with no data retention laws. However PIA has port forwarding support and that is crucial for my case. Both support payment via Bitpay. ExpressVPN returned the money no problem after I've discovered that they don't do port forwarding.
- Vektorweg 8y agoI'm using IPredator. They give you a dynamic IPv4+v6 address and you can pay with Bitcoin.
- mclehman 8y agoI'm sure there are many more, but Mullvad is one VPN provider accepting bitcoin payments (as well as cash).
- Cyph0n 8y agoMullvad has been great. Very easy to setup and they do not take any of your personal details. Instead of a user/email and password, you get a random account number that is used to track your payments and authenticate you.
- briandear 8y agoOther than PayPal monetizing your payment history, sure it’s great. Apple makes it even easier. This is tangential, but on the topic of PayPal and privacy, this article is interesting about PayPal and HIPAA: https://simple.icouch.me/blog/is-paypal-hipaa-compliant-revisiting-paypal-for-therapists https://simple.icouch.me/blog/is-paypal-hipaa-compliant-revi... Short answer: if privacy matters, PayPal is a non-starter. I don’t want news publishers to have my information either. I know publishers like to howl and whine about “owning the customer relationship,” but unless they allow Apple for subscriptions, I won’t subscribe. I don’t need to be constantly reminder if their “special offers.”
- chrischen 8y agoPretty sure Chase and banks do the same.
- discreditable 8y agoPretty much any credit card mines your purchases. PayPal isn't special in this regard.
- jammygit 8y agoWhat is the alternative? Is, what do informed people do instead of using credit cards or PayPal to buy things? (I assume stripe is the same)
- dorgo 8y agocash?
- Tsubasachan 8y agoiDeal- basically money from my bank account to the bank account of the person I'm doing business with. Instant, free and no Sillicon Valley dipshit middle men parasites.
- fl0wenol 8y agoChecks, ACH, wire transfers. Bank to bank, for free or very low fee (compared to transferred amount, like 20 bucks to transfer $$$$ with 1 day settlement for a wire transfer)
- sqldba 8y agoJust be careful with this. Some companies will treat this as if it were a bounced check and keep your debt going.
- benatkin 8y agoI wouldn't put it past they NYT to do it. They could say that for privacy reasons the billing department can't view the last time you were logged into your account, and boom, they can argue that if they didn't pursue payment, you could be getting features from your paid account for free.
- frakr 8y agoThat sounds pretty unlikely to me.
- hakfoo 8y agoMost recurring billing APIs provide some sort of notification or query about the status. They could reasonably do "for each payment we got yesterday, extend the expiration date of the associated account."
- ascar 8y agoSure. They could also let you easily cancel online. But they don't want to. And if you refuse to pay for a subscription contract you entered, but didn't cancel, you owe them.
- sakarisson 8y agoFrom a legal perspective, would it be enough to send them an e-mail telling them that you no longer want to subscribe to the services before pulling the plug?
- mehrdadn 8y agoProbably depends on whether you email an appropriate address?
- chrischen 8y agoI'd also like to add that despite the negative publicity PayPal gets from the merchant side, it's also preferred over credit cards by merchants for better handling of "disputes". Some consider paypal to be archaic, but it's bleeding edge payment tech when placed alongside traditional credit cards.
- time0ut 8y agoYears ago I used PayPal to pay for an on demand server that was advertised to be ready within an hour. Twenty four hours and zero servers later, I had already gone to a competitor and asked for a refund. The company refused and PayPal sided with them. American Express sided with me. I closed my PayPal account forever that day. Now we have even better tools available for subscriptions. Check out privacy card.
- jammygit 8y agoThe privacy card privacy policy isn't very comforting. I assume its partially boilerplate but it did keep me from signing up a while ago
- chrischen 8y agoIn my experience with credit cards they almost always side with the customer for small charges, and for extremely large charges (and if you're a big enough company) they side with the merchant. I had case where free credits were offered for a cloud provider, but they decided to bill me anyways. Chase decided to validate the charges, and it was clear through multiple calls each agent was making things up about why it was validated (They would give different reasons anytime, from how I worded "free credits"). In the end the cloud provider admitted to the mistake and ended up siding with me, despite chase siding against me (they're supposed to be on the consumer's behalf). So I think in your case Amex probably didn't even consider or evaluate the terms of the sale—they just refunded you because it was within some parameters. This of course can work for or against you depending on the situation.
- time0ut 8y ago
- mooreds 8y agoThis is the same reason I pay bills via my bank bill pay rather than giving EFT access to the folks who send me bills. One point of control, and the bank is invented to help me with payment issues rather than throw up roadblocks.
- zo1 8y agoYeah, it's not all peachy there either. I made the same assumption till I went to the bank to "block" a service-provider that kept insisting on billing me. They "blocked" the service-provider from charging me for 3 months, then they were apparently obligated to let it through because they could only do it for 3 months. At which point, the service-provider just back-charged me for those three months and continued anyways.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- thisisweirdok 8y agoYeah this is why I'm quick to use paypal. If I can't cancel it online I'm just going to deauthorize that shit.
- ox_cable 8y agoThat's all kinds of stupid. You might retain some cash in the meantime and feel better about "sticking it to the man," but the reality is you entered into an agreement and from both legal and corporate perspectives, you're defaulting and committing fraud. Is it right? No, not at all. Do I hate that it works this way? Absolutely. But sticking your head in the sand and pretending everything is fine is a great way to get screwed. Enjoy it while it lasts; it's only a matter of time before you defraud the wrong corporation who will bend you over a barrel and show you the 50 states. I've worked in my fair share of customer service and customer loyalty departments before and I've talked to enough people who had no idea their debt had been sold to a collections agency to even pretend that your approach is the right approach.
- thisisweirdok 8y agoIf a company wants to face the worst Streisand effect they've ever experienced they can go ahead and try to put me over a barrel because their shitty sales tactics make it incredibly difficult to cancel their service. It should be illegal.
- warent 8y agoThis reminds me of a service I signed up for once years ago, can't even remember what it was, but I had no idea how to cancel it and it was direct to my card instead of PayPal. What ended up happening was I went to the "Edit payment info" page and just entered my card number as 4242 4242 4242 4242, which is a Visa testing card number. It authorized it as valid and I never dealt with the company again.
- arbie 8y agoYou realize this can constitute fraud, right?
- gjs278 8y agonumber of people that will go to jail for doing this: 0 the only fraud here is your advice
- pbhjpbhj 8y agoCan you explain that, surely fraud requires you to gain something by deception; stopping paying for a service you are no longer using is neither acquisition nor deception.
- warent 8y agoAgree. I wasn't using the product and nobody's identity was being stolen. If a court ruled it as fraud (nobody has tried suing me yet) I would be surprised. The business is at fault for using dark patterns to try and social engineer away my money. By the way, your karma just reached 12345 so that means you've achieved HN Gold status. Congrats! Now never post again and stop receiving votes so it can stay that way.