5 ms·

10-Year-Old Scholar Takes California College By Storm

10 points by lurkage 18y ago

zach 18y ago
Downey in the hizzle! I'll hire him as an intern at my startup... if he keeps his grades up.
- zach 18y ago
  Ouch. Excuse me. I'm just glad to have news stories about Downey that don't involve the house the Carpenters used to live in.
  - keating 18y ago
    The downmodding is for conflating grades with "deservedness" re: interning at your startup. First, if someone does the work, they should get the pay/equity, regardless of age. I say forget grades and jumping through other people's hoops. If he wants to do it, he will do it for its own sake. Second, I'd let the poor kid hang out at my startup just to get away from his parents and structure. He can play with action figures or something. Of course maybe he's perfectly happy where he is, but if not, it would be nice to have someplace to go where the adults just leave you alone. A lot of us can relate to his situation.
    - zach 18y ago
      I'm just saying there's not much going on in Downey. There really isn't. Downey makes Burbank look like Mountain View. I am not in a position to have anyone intern (I run my startup out of my house -- Downey doesn't let you have a business license for an apartment, by the way!) That, and I flunked out of college in my first semester. My offer is entirely tongue-in-cheek and it came from the same place you're coming from. But I understand you don't know me, so it's cool. Nice to meet you!
    - silencio 18y ago
      PLEASE! I'll even pass on your details next time I see him. I really think he needs a break from his parents. It might do him some good.
Hexstream 18y ago
I think more cases similar to this (ok, maybe not this young, but still) will, or should, happen more in the future. I'm sure there's many opportunities where a kid is actually interested in studies but can't or doesn't go on the "fast track" for various reasons. One reason, I think, is that kids are expected to play non-productive games all the time. Another is that there's this warped, prevalent perspective that work and play are opposites.
- brentr 18y ago
  At this child's age, it's up to the parents to decide what is best for the child. Sometimes the parents will not make the best decision. Personally I feel that if the child can state the want to study more complex or advanced topics, the child should be allowed to study those topics. I am a bit biased because I found most of my pre-university studies boring. I also didn't fit in with the other students while I was in middle school and high school.
  - silencio 18y ago
    Except they aren't making the best decisions most of the time, and by the time the kid can study what they want easily on their own (think things like money for buying materials), they're stuffed with bullshit busywork from their normal classes that are intellectually boring and take forever to do, until they get to college (hopefully). Or at least that's what it was like for me. One of the things I loved to do was to code, and well, that sort of went out the window for the two years I was in high school because I'd be dead tired and in need of sleep every single night after the requisite extracurriculars and homework. My parents wouldn't let me drive to school in the morning because I'd get only a couple of hours of sleep a night sometimes and they didn't want me to fall asleep behind the wheel. Even on weekends I didn't have time because I had to study for the classes I hated and do lame group projects where at least one member didn't do their fair share of work.
    - pchristensen 18y ago
      Wow, silencio, I had to check the comment header to make sure this wasn't one of those comments I write in the middle of the night and forget about :). I think you might be my long lost twin.
xlnt 18y ago
Maybe pg should have been less negative about the abilities of 10 year olds in his essay. Of course it's hard to know very much by age 10 if your parents lie to you frequently. But that isn't the child's fault.
- timr 18y ago
  It doesn't take much insight to see that this kid's life is hyper-scheduled and regulated by his parents. His Dad is "fretting" that his grade in piano will be bad, because he broke his arm in martial arts? Time to get some perspective, Pop.... Point being, this kid doesn't have the experience to know what he's missing by not being a little boy. Who says that his parents are telling him the truth?
  - xlnt 18y ago
    i didn't.
  - silencio 18y ago
    If it's any consolation, his piano teacher (also mine) actually sat his mom down and pointedly told her that he needs a break from piano because he's overloaded with other extracurriculars (let alone college work). :)
  - lvecsey 18y ago
    Dude can grep wikipedia and has parents that can talk about topics in a deep way, or provide resources to him on topics that interest him. Most parents would do the opposite and restrict internet access for starters, let alone have the ability to assist in his intellectual interests. As far as kid activities his age, I'm sure he would be bored stiff around others. That seems like a blessing to avoid behavior that would no doubt only lead to worse choices later in life.
    - timr 18y ago
      My instinct is that this kid's parents aren't treating him as an intellectual equal, so much as a lump of raw material to be manipulated.
keating 18y ago
Over. Scheduled. On the flip side I think we should front-load education because kids hardly learn anything from jr. high onward, thanks to the hormone fairy. There are a few exceptions, of course.
- silencio 18y ago
  I think all high schools could do with starting classes a couple hours later, and to lessen the busywork. It certainly works for me. I schedule all my college classes after 10am if possible, otherwise I just fall asleep in class no matter how early I go to sleep the night before.
aantix 18y ago
"The Myth of Prodigy and Why It Matters" was a presentation done by Malcolm and is a must read. http://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/getArticle.cfm?id=2026 http://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/getArticle.cfm?... Gladwell makes the distinction between gifted learners vs. gifted do'ers. <quote> We think of precociousness as an early form of adult achievement, and, according to Gladwell, that concept is much of the problem. “What a gifted child is, in many ways, is a gifted learner. And what a gifted adult is, is a gifted doer. And those are quite separate domains of achievement.” </quote>
aswanson 18y ago
If he doesn't watch it he'll end up like Michael Jackson, spending his adult life trying to recreate his lost childhood.
DaniFong 18y ago
For a long time I’ve been meaning to write about the subject, and what was to be a simple comment morphed into this essay. On YC: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=190148 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=190148 Or directly: http://daniellefong.com/2008/05/15/advice-to-the-bright-and-young/ http://daniellefong.com/2008/05/15/advice-to-the-bright-and-...
silencio 18y ago
Oh jeez, I know this kid. I have the same piano teacher as he does, and I felt so sorry for him. His lessons were often after mine. Personally, I think his parents (his dad in particular) ARE pushing him way too much.
- viergroupie 18y ago
  Anything specific?
  - silencio 18y ago
    While I think he's a really nice and smart kid (basically, like all of my friends from all those stupid programs), I don't think he's had much experience outside practicing/studying/fine tuning all these things he does at school and at his extracurricular activities. And really, as much as that article says his parents didn't want to push him, I get the impression that they do, and maybe to extremes...at the least, they imply so. I want him to be a kid! I've had MANY friends go this route at various ages (but all still earlier than usual), and some of them regret slaving away at classwork only to end up like everyone else except a couple years faster..which ends up meaning almost nothing most of the time. It really depends on the person..but almost all of them follow the same pattern. Study, study, study, do lots of extracurriculars..get into college, go to grad school a bit early, and end up in the same place as half their intellectual peers. Do employers care? Not really. Do schools care? Maybe for the teeny bit of publicity, but not really. In fact, if you do skip that much that early you probably end up running into issues with school administration. Honestly, is there something bad about taking ones time? I used to take classes at the CC when I was 11-12ish, and I felt insanely out of place in most of them because everyone was several years older than me and while it was easy to get acquainted with others (it can be an interesting introduction), it's just not the same. My parents liked the idea but they would babysit me the whole way through (well, not the classwork) because they weren't comfortable with me beling alone on campus. Essentially, the behavior of any preteen just won't be the same as anybody over 18.
gruseom 18y ago
I agree with the commenters who point to the parents. This kind of prodigy is usually the product of an ambitious parent trying to vicariously superachieve. I think that explains why so few go on to great (or even comparable) achievement in later life. It's because they weren't living out their own identity but something that was assigned to them. Sooner or later this is bound to be rejected or otherwise collapse. The vast majority of children want simply to be like other children and, most of all, to have their parents' love. I believe it is the latter force that drives the typical child prodigy. That is, what drives the achievement is not anything like intellectual passion (which mostly comes later) but a desire for the parent's approval and love. It's sad when that is conditional on mastering calculus at age 8 or what have you.
- silencio 18y ago
  I don't know. The thing is, I got into the highly gifted magnet program at lausd (the group for kids with IQs>=145) thanks to my parents. But my parents were completely oblivious as to what all of that nonsense from the school principal was and just signed all the papers without really reading anything. They actually thought I caused some trouble at school when they got a call from my teacher who wanted to talk about me..except it was cause I was in the 99th percentile in everything and finished classwork in 5 minutes what would take everyone else an hour (and played games on the Macs we had in class :D). So I mean, this stuff happens with or without parents. I think it's cause I really enjoyed all these things..my parents sat me down with the Sunday comics to get me to read when I was a baby not because they wanted me to be some genius, but because apparently it looked like I had an interest in the colorful stuff on the paper. (On a sidenote, some parents think they can make their kids into "genius"es and their kids overwork themselves to get into these programs to get their approval and man it ends up being a waste of time!) I believe Moshe is a very cute kid who has brains. I think that his parents realized that early on and got him to do all these things. My ultimate problem with this situation is that he's too young and inexperienced in every other way..he's only known that life he has now and nothing else, and there's probably no way in hell his parents will backtrack and just leave him alone (probably blame it on him eventually reaching puberty? who knows). I don't know if he'll end up regretting it, or if he'll end up thanking his parents for what they've done. But I think it's a damn shame regardless. And you do have a really valid point that not a lot of people are realizing. I can count a LOT of people my age and older that I know were just as gifted as this kid..but what did they end up doing? Um, nothing that someone will remember 10 years later, usually. That doesn't mean they're not gifted..they're pretty intelligent. But it's not something that really stands out..it's usually what they want to do and they just do it.

10 points by lurkage 18y ago

zach 18y ago

Downey in the hizzle! I'll hire him as an intern at my startup... if he keeps his grades up.

zach 18y ago
Ouch. Excuse me. I'm just glad to have news stories about Downey that don't involve the house the Carpenters used to live in.
- keating 18y ago
  The downmodding is for conflating grades with "deservedness" re: interning at your startup. First, if someone does the work, they should get the pay/equity, regardless of age. I say forget grades and jumping through other people's hoops. If he wants to do it, he will do it for its own sake. Second, I'd let the poor kid hang out at my startup just to get away from his parents and structure. He can play with action figures or something. Of course maybe he's perfectly happy where he is, but if not, it would be nice to have someplace to go where the adults just leave you alone. A lot of us can relate to his situation.
  - zach 18y ago
    I'm just saying there's not much going on in Downey. There really isn't. Downey makes Burbank look like Mountain View. I am not in a position to have anyone intern (I run my startup out of my house -- Downey doesn't let you have a business license for an apartment, by the way!) That, and I flunked out of college in my first semester. My offer is entirely tongue-in-cheek and it came from the same place you're coming from. But I understand you don't know me, so it's cool. Nice to meet you!
  - silencio 18y ago
    PLEASE! I'll even pass on your details next time I see him. I really think he needs a break from his parents. It might do him some good.

Hexstream 18y ago

I think more cases similar to this (ok, maybe not this young, but still) will, or should, happen more in the future. I'm sure there's many opportunities where a kid is actually interested in studies but can't or doesn't go on the "fast track" for various reasons. One reason, I think, is that kids are expected to play non-productive games all the time. Another is that there's this warped, prevalent perspective that work and play are opposites.

brentr 18y ago
At this child's age, it's up to the parents to decide what is best for the child. Sometimes the parents will not make the best decision. Personally I feel that if the child can state the want to study more complex or advanced topics, the child should be allowed to study those topics. I am a bit biased because I found most of my pre-university studies boring. I also didn't fit in with the other students while I was in middle school and high school.
- silencio 18y ago
  Except they aren't making the best decisions most of the time, and by the time the kid can study what they want easily on their own (think things like money for buying materials), they're stuffed with bullshit busywork from their normal classes that are intellectually boring and take forever to do, until they get to college (hopefully). Or at least that's what it was like for me. One of the things I loved to do was to code, and well, that sort of went out the window for the two years I was in high school because I'd be dead tired and in need of sleep every single night after the requisite extracurriculars and homework. My parents wouldn't let me drive to school in the morning because I'd get only a couple of hours of sleep a night sometimes and they didn't want me to fall asleep behind the wheel. Even on weekends I didn't have time because I had to study for the classes I hated and do lame group projects where at least one member didn't do their fair share of work.
  - pchristensen 18y ago
    Wow, silencio, I had to check the comment header to make sure this wasn't one of those comments I write in the middle of the night and forget about :). I think you might be my long lost twin.

xlnt 18y ago

Maybe pg should have been less negative about the abilities of 10 year olds in his essay. Of course it's hard to know very much by age 10 if your parents lie to you frequently. But that isn't the child's fault.

timr 18y ago
It doesn't take much insight to see that this kid's life is hyper-scheduled and regulated by his parents. His Dad is "fretting" that his grade in piano will be bad, because he broke his arm in martial arts? Time to get some perspective, Pop.... Point being, this kid doesn't have the experience to know what he's missing by not being a little boy. Who says that his parents are telling him the truth?
- xlnt 18y ago
  i didn't.
- silencio 18y ago
  If it's any consolation, his piano teacher (also mine) actually sat his mom down and pointedly told her that he needs a break from piano because he's overloaded with other extracurriculars (let alone college work). :)
- lvecsey 18y ago
  Dude can grep wikipedia and has parents that can talk about topics in a deep way, or provide resources to him on topics that interest him. Most parents would do the opposite and restrict internet access for starters, let alone have the ability to assist in his intellectual interests. As far as kid activities his age, I'm sure he would be bored stiff around others. That seems like a blessing to avoid behavior that would no doubt only lead to worse choices later in life.
  - timr 18y ago
    My instinct is that this kid's parents aren't treating him as an intellectual equal, so much as a lump of raw material to be manipulated.

keating 18y ago

Over. Scheduled. On the flip side I think we should front-load education because kids hardly learn anything from jr. high onward, thanks to the hormone fairy. There are a few exceptions, of course.

silencio 18y ago
I think all high schools could do with starting classes a couple hours later, and to lessen the busywork. It certainly works for me. I schedule all my college classes after 10am if possible, otherwise I just fall asleep in class no matter how early I go to sleep the night before.

aantix 18y ago

"The Myth of Prodigy and Why It Matters" was a presentation done by Malcolm and is a must read. http://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/getArticle.cfm?id=2026 http://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/getArticle.cfm?... Gladwell makes the distinction between gifted learners vs. gifted do'ers. <quote> We think of precociousness as an early form of adult achievement, and, according to Gladwell, that concept is much of the problem. “What a gifted child is, in many ways, is a gifted learner. And what a gifted adult is, is a gifted doer. And those are quite separate domains of achievement.” </quote>

aswanson 18y ago

If he doesn't watch it he'll end up like Michael Jackson, spending his adult life trying to recreate his lost childhood.

DaniFong 18y ago

For a long time I’ve been meaning to write about the subject, and what was to be a simple comment morphed into this essay. On YC: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=190148 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=190148 Or directly: http://daniellefong.com/2008/05/15/advice-to-the-bright-and-young/ http://daniellefong.com/2008/05/15/advice-to-the-bright-and-...

silencio 18y ago

Oh jeez, I know this kid. I have the same piano teacher as he does, and I felt so sorry for him. His lessons were often after mine. Personally, I think his parents (his dad in particular) ARE pushing him way too much.

viergroupie 18y ago
Anything specific?
- silencio 18y ago
  While I think he's a really nice and smart kid (basically, like all of my friends from all those stupid programs), I don't think he's had much experience outside practicing/studying/fine tuning all these things he does at school and at his extracurricular activities. And really, as much as that article says his parents didn't want to push him, I get the impression that they do, and maybe to extremes...at the least, they imply so. I want him to be a kid! I've had MANY friends go this route at various ages (but all still earlier than usual), and some of them regret slaving away at classwork only to end up like everyone else except a couple years faster..which ends up meaning almost nothing most of the time. It really depends on the person..but almost all of them follow the same pattern. Study, study, study, do lots of extracurriculars..get into college, go to grad school a bit early, and end up in the same place as half their intellectual peers. Do employers care? Not really. Do schools care? Maybe for the teeny bit of publicity, but not really. In fact, if you do skip that much that early you probably end up running into issues with school administration. Honestly, is there something bad about taking ones time? I used to take classes at the CC when I was 11-12ish, and I felt insanely out of place in most of them because everyone was several years older than me and while it was easy to get acquainted with others (it can be an interesting introduction), it's just not the same. My parents liked the idea but they would babysit me the whole way through (well, not the classwork) because they weren't comfortable with me beling alone on campus. Essentially, the behavior of any preteen just won't be the same as anybody over 18.

gruseom 18y ago

I agree with the commenters who point to the parents. This kind of prodigy is usually the product of an ambitious parent trying to vicariously superachieve. I think that explains why so few go on to great (or even comparable) achievement in later life. It's because they weren't living out their own identity but something that was assigned to them. Sooner or later this is bound to be rejected or otherwise collapse. The vast majority of children want simply to be like other children and, most of all, to have their parents' love. I believe it is the latter force that drives the typical child prodigy. That is, what drives the achievement is not anything like intellectual passion (which mostly comes later) but a desire for the parent's approval and love. It's sad when that is conditional on mastering calculus at age 8 or what have you.

silencio 18y ago
I don't know. The thing is, I got into the highly gifted magnet program at lausd (the group for kids with IQs>=145) thanks to my parents. But my parents were completely oblivious as to what all of that nonsense from the school principal was and just signed all the papers without really reading anything. They actually thought I caused some trouble at school when they got a call from my teacher who wanted to talk about me..except it was cause I was in the 99th percentile in everything and finished classwork in 5 minutes what would take everyone else an hour (and played games on the Macs we had in class :D). So I mean, this stuff happens with or without parents. I think it's cause I really enjoyed all these things..my parents sat me down with the Sunday comics to get me to read when I was a baby not because they wanted me to be some genius, but because apparently it looked like I had an interest in the colorful stuff on the paper. (On a sidenote, some parents think they can make their kids into "genius"es and their kids overwork themselves to get into these programs to get their approval and man it ends up being a waste of time!) I believe Moshe is a very cute kid who has brains. I think that his parents realized that early on and got him to do all these things. My ultimate problem with this situation is that he's too young and inexperienced in every other way..he's only known that life he has now and nothing else, and there's probably no way in hell his parents will backtrack and just leave him alone (probably blame it on him eventually reaching puberty? who knows). I don't know if he'll end up regretting it, or if he'll end up thanking his parents for what they've done. But I think it's a damn shame regardless. And you do have a really valid point that not a lot of people are realizing. I can count a LOT of people my age and older that I know were just as gifted as this kid..but what did they end up doing? Um, nothing that someone will remember 10 years later, usually. That doesn't mean they're not gifted..they're pretty intelligent. But it's not something that really stands out..it's usually what they want to do and they just do it.