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U.S. Hospitals Are Asking Their Own Patients to Donate Money
- onetimemanytime 8y agowaste of money. Now, funding a free clinic in a poor area for 50 years is a great idea.
- zozbot123 8y agoGood move. The closer we move our healthcare system towards "pay what you want" and get rid of all middleman positions (both private and government-based), the better.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago> "pay what you want" In this case what determines what you get?
- andrewguenther 8y agoHow do you envision "pay what you want" healthcare working?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- prolepunk 8y agoHow much the option 'I want to stay alive, please?' would cost?
- tbirrell 8y agoHold up. We already have to pay through the nose for medical care, so where is all this money going that these hospitals need to ask for more? Is non-profit a different class that is somehow left out of the con that is the US healthcare system?
- BucketSort 8y agoAdministration bloat. I really wish costs were more transparent so we could reason about what drives cost. Doesn't seem sustainable that Hospitals are businesses, but that's the capitalistic way of solving things.
- EpicEng 8y ago>Administration bloat. I really wish costs were more transparent so we could reason about what drives cost. The second sentence seems to contradict the first. What about the insurance providers?
- BucketSort 8y agoThat's what is typically said about hospitals and other institutions (like universities). But I don't really know, because the cost of medical care in this country is obscured beyond belief. Check out the horror multitude of horror stories people have in figuring out the costs they incurred at hospitals.
- vkou 8y agoIt's both administration bloat, and doctor salaries. Doctors in the US get saddled with mountains of student debt, and then make mountains of money, once they pay it off.
- EpicEng 8y agoDon't forget they also have to pay malpractice insurance and, you know, have a highly specialized job which requires a whole lot of training.
- barbecue_sauce 8y agoSpecialized training, the supply of which is artificially constrained by the AMA/RUC.
- BucketSort 8y agoNext thing you know they will have a patreon.
- ceejayoz 8y agoI'm sure they'd be very happy to set up a recurring donation.
- dkdbejwi383 8y agoI am so thankful for the NHS when I see things like this.
- CorruptedArc 8y agoI like a lot of things about the U.S. over the U.K. but our healthcare system is definitely not one of them.
- sincerely 8y agoThis happens in canada too, so im not sure its uniquely a problem of private vs socialized healthcare.
- CorruptedArc 8y agoYeah but U.S. and Canadian corporate culture is pretty intertwined.
- rixrax 8y agoI’d like to throw something out here as maybe a starting point for a discussion: we should immediately make it illegal to have medical insurance in the US. Everything should be out of pocket. Period. After initial chaos, misery and death, we would have no choice but to restructure healthcare system in a manner that its costs are in line with what people can afford to pay with their salaries. Ok, that was pretty radical. :)
- burlesona 8y agoI wouldn’t make insurance illegal, but as a thought experiment I think if you banned employers from providing health benefits then you’d find a sudden huge pressure for change. If the wealthy class in the US had to deal with what the self-pay / self-insured deal with, there’d be hell to pay.
- cujo 8y agoI'm completely on boar with preventing employers from providing it as a benefit, but I think you may be overestimated how much the wealthy class will give a shit. They can foot the bill for their care.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- hopler 8y agoYou propose that sick people just die?
- rixrax 8y agoNo. I’m suggesting we fix our healthcare system so that fewer people die, and no one is driven into financial ruin because they need to see a doctor, and that it’s available to every citizen of these United States regardless of their financial status. And worry not - those with deep pockets can always pay extra for premium treatments, but some baseline should exist.
- krapp 8y ago
- dajohnson89 8y agoAre hospitals actually struggling?
- CorruptedArc 8y agoIf you read the article you'll see that the reasons they're asking is for improved "amenities". But its a bit misleading since they also charge through the roof for said "amenities".
- duxup 8y agoDepends on the hospital, but very possible. It's also very complex. Sometimes it is just a matter of what you offer as a hospital, the volume of people you bring in, and what you do. Example: Obstetrics is becoming a major money looser due to changes in the insurance market. So insurance companies how require a hospital who handle's births to also have a surgery center and be able to handle c-sections in order to insure any birthing. The thing is that requires an on call surge and staff and things that previously a lot of hospitals didn't have. So in order provide that service the overhead just skyrocketed. Many rural hospitals just don't offer it anymore or if they are / are taking big losses to provide the service. That's just one area.
- abrichr 8y agoThank you for the insight! Can you reveal where you learned this? I would love to get a better understanding of the financials of the healthcare industry.
- duxup 8y agoSadly it's not from an site that covers it all. I too am interested in the topic. This was just a local news story, they tend to do a good job: https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/01/22/rural-clinics-end-baby-delivery-small-town-minn-pays https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/01/22/rural-clinics-end-b...
- helipad 8y agoI wonder what their approach is to 'ungrateful' patients – the ones who get billed every little things, or are otherwise unsatisfied with the service? It is after all a service in the US. It's transactional. I'm happy medical science solves my complaints, but the way it's set up I'm not often left with an overwhelming sense of gratitude to the hospital.
- throwaway5752 8y agoNonprofit hospitals soliciting donations from former patients is the least controversial thing possible. The part where they screen patients and give them preferential treatment is worrisome. I think the cited bioethicist had it pegged with the "not illegal but unseemly" (paraphrased). If hospitals are going to treat indigent populations, absent universal healthcare, they are going to operate at losses and require grants and donations to operate.
- Para2016 8y agoNon-profit is just a tax structure. They make plenty of money and reward themselves handsomely.
- throwaway5752 8y agoA quick first point: you're making a blanket statement against a heterogeneous population. Some non-profits are definitely not efficient, and some are very efficient. The big difference, and there is one, is related to ownership and operations. There are no distributable earnings, and they cannot be sold/acquired. This definitely factors into decisions balancing profitablity and ethics. There are laws about nonprofit compensation, too: https://www.guidestar.org/ViewCmsFile.aspx?ContentID=3890 https://www.guidestar.org/ViewCmsFile.aspx?ContentID=3890
- Para2016 8y agoI'm a physician for a non-profit and I'm going to continue making my blanket statement. But thanks for the link.
- throwaway5752 8y agoI am not a physician at a non-profit! But I had read a few years of Tenet and HCA annual reports a while back, and have a few other points of exposure to non-profit vs teaching vs private systems. Perhaps we can agree that there are many opportunities to improve the system in many ways.
- steanne 8y agothere are a few hospitals i'd say that's okay for. https://www.deborahfoundation.org/pages/about-us https://www.deborahfoundation.org/pages/about-us
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- uberman 8y agoIf they can get more in donations than the cost of procuring them, why not ask? Universities ask alumni to give all the time even though they have already paid. Why not hospitals (many already attached to universities). To be clear, I think it is a terrible practice but if your hospital sees that it works for the university it is attached to, why not explore the opportunity?
- dplgk 8y agoI can also walk up to anyone in the street and ask for a hand job. Why not ask?
- uberman 8y agoWhile I tried to make it clear that I found their behavior inappropriate my direct answer in the context of universities and alumni and hospitals and patients is: If your dad was walking around asking for and getting hand jobs left and right so brazenly that the givers wanted to name your father's dick after then, then you would probably be foolish not to at least try to ask for one yourself and see what happens.
- raverbashing 8y agoSure, I'll donate $15 but ask them to consider it a $1000 donation What, this doesn't make sense? So, about that...
- throwaway456321 8y agoWe already donate a shit ton, like $5000 for a 8 minute ambulance ride or $1300 for an 5 minute assessment in an ER
- balabaster 8y agoComing from, and only ever having lived in countries that have socialized medical care, I will never understand the general lack of goodwill towards one's fellow countrymen that your country continually rails against it. All to live with a medical industry that is, for all intents and purposes, run by corrupt insurance companies who will bleed you dry sooner than they would cover your bankruptcy inducing medical bills. I just don't get it. And now on top of this, having paid an arm and a leg to an insurance company that would just as soon stab me in the back as pay the medical bill my premium is supposed to cover, hospitals want donations? What the fuck is going on? Sure the medical systems I've lived with aren't perfect, and sure they could be improved. But by and large, knowing that I can go into any medical care facility in the country and walk out fixed, without having to fight for medical care, fight for my right to be treated, fight for my right to have my medical costs taken care of. I would rather have that every day of the week, even knowing that there are others abusing this, than the alternative.
- pkaye 8y ago> Coming from, and only ever having lived in countries that have socialized medical care, I will never understand the general lack of goodwill towards one's fellow countrymen that your country continually rails against it. You can probably understand in the UK how certain groups are systematically trying to gut their NHS. That seems to be the same mentality that is going in the US. Make medical care all about maximizing profit.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- balabaster 8y agoI can understand why those who put money and greed above people who are systematically trying to gut the NHS. I understand because to many, their God is money. Their be all and end all of life. Their alpha and their omega. Don't confuse that with me understanding them. I am a people before everything kind of guy. In the immortal words of Princess Leia - "If money is all you love, then that's what you'll receive." I'm vehemently opposed to the NHS being privatized. It's an institution and the crown jewel that sets Britain aside from the rest of the world. To see people supporting their attempts to privatize it and send Britain down the same path as the U.S. in my mind is the ultimate failure of the British people and it infuriates me - worse even than Brexit. When did we become a people who believed the lies and rhetoric spewed by those on TV over our own education? When did we become a people who just blindly followed what we were told like lambs to the slaughter? I thought we were better than that, honestly. It makes me sick.
- mrnobody_67 8y agoTip for good service? 20%, 25%, Other:
- RandomInteger4 8y agoThis isn't new. There was an episode of Scrubs that brought up patient donations.
- brandonmenc 8y ago> Many hospitals conduct nightly wealth screenings — using software that culls public data such as property records, contributions to political campaigns and other charities — to gauge which patients are most likely to be the source of large donations. > Those who seem promising targets for fund-raising may receive a visit from a hospital executive in their rooms, as well as extra amenities like a bathrobe or a nicer waiting area for their families. Fabulous. So when my parents are in their 80s and out of it on painkillers after a surgery, they'll be preyed upon for donations by some fast talking executive who has trolled through their public records to see how much their home is worth. Are your bedsheets uncomfortable? (guess what - everything is uncomfortable after major surgery) Just donate and we'll fix that for you. Sleazy to the max.
- chrisbennet 8y agoWhen my Dad told me he was going to donate his house to the local hospital I told him “I’ll support whatever you decide.” I pointed out that they weren’t a charity and that the CEO of the hospital was paid $1.8 million year. [1] He changed his mind. [1] http://www.mainebiz.biz/article/20150924/DATAJOE/150929969/maine's-highest-paid-health-care-professionals http://www.mainebiz.biz/article/20150924/DATAJOE/150929969/m...
- tannranger 8y agoDoesn't seem so radical compared to other systems. I have heard in China doctors will give preferential treatment to patients who give sufficient 'hongbao' (red envelope = money). I imagine (with no evidence) this might be common in many developing world/traditional societies. So we are just evolving toward that kind of system. If anything this provides another lever for free market principles to decide who survives based on willingness to pay (WTP - likely familiar to those who went to business school).
- eatbitseveryday 8y ago> I have heard in China doctors will give preferential treatment to patients who give sufficient 'hongbao' (red envelope = money). Yes, this is true. Hospital admissions requires approval of a doctor, and you essentially have to out-bribe other patients to get a bed, or even convince doctors to pay attention to you. [Personal experience.]