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I would presume electric drive trains are quite complex. You'd have independent electric motors on at least 2, perhaps all 4 wheels. You have to redesign entir

I would presume electric drive trains are quite complex. You'd have independent electric motors on at least 2, perhaps all 4 wheels. You have to redesign entire platforms to fit batteries, ensure the batteries and the drivetrain have adequate cooling, ensure that the electric motors have a certain amount of longevity, and so on.

andrewmunsell 8y ago
With the exception of a few niche vehicles, most EVs have only 1 (FWD/RWD) or 2 (AWD) motors. Though it's a new platform, electric motors aren't exactly a new technology and overall it's significantly fewer moving parts to fail. There's also the fact that many manufacturers come up with a single "skateboard" platform for multiple vehicles, which reduces the overall complexity of manufacturing EVs.
- throw0u1t 8y ago
  As far as I understand the current state of EVs, EVs have eliminated the engine and it's ancillaries. However, EVs still have CV joints, differentials (dependent on the car, Tesla runs an open differential), independent suspension - all of which must be much stronger since electric motors produce far more torque than ICEs and also have the added weight penalty.
  - 51lver 8y ago
    That's all very old and simple tech. The quality is only limited by the bean counters keeping costs down.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - cptskippy 8y ago
    The power-train is everything from wheels to engine. Where as drive-train is the power-train minus the engine. The transmission is the most complicated part of the drive-train and arguably more complicated than all of the other drive-train components combined. In current EVs there is no transmission, just a single reduction gearbox. In an EV the engine is dramatically simplified compared to an ICE and there are significantly fewer parts and almost no moving parts in comparison. Another thing to consider is that all internal combustion engines have multiple supplementary systems that are required to function such as cooling, fuel delivery, and ignition. At most an EV motor might require supplementary cooling but no commercial vehicle has one that I'm aware of.
    - throw0u1t 8y ago
      Of course, ICE powertrains have lots of moving parts, but the comparison that EV cars are simple is just not an accurate representation of EV cars. There are fewer moving parts, I agree. The architecture itself is simpler too, I agree. But the individual components are still massively complex and expensive. High density Lithion-ion is very complex, and also requires a number of supplementary systems to manage power, heat, cooling and monitor the array.
      - cptskippy 8y ago
        You could make the same argument about the exotic metallurgy used in ICE components. Just like with an ICE subsystem, most of those subsystems you mentioned aren't trade secrets and have far greater operating tolerances than in an ICE.
cptskippy 8y ago
> I would presume electric drive trains are quite complex. They're significantly less complicated than an ICE power-train and drive-train. The Nissan Leaf has a single electric motor and a fixed reduction gear box. The only fluids to maintain are the wiper fluid and reduction gear box fluid, which is similar to automatic transmission fluid but requires less maintenance. The battery pack is air cooled and the only servicing is an annual inspection to maintain warranty. The Tesla vehicles are all direct drive with no gearbox. They come in single or dual motor options. The batteries are cooled and the fluid is changed at 4 year intervals. The maintenance schedule for an EV is annually changing the cabin filter, wiper blades, and doing a multi-point inspection.
- magduf 8y ago
  >The Tesla vehicles are all direct drive with no gearbox. This is wrong. They have a single electric motor (except the dual-motor ones) and a fixed reduction gear box, just like the Leaf. No one does direct-drive electric motors because it's a lot easier to make a faster-spinning motor and then use a reduction gear to get usable torque from it; a direct-drive motor would have to have a huge diameter. >The maintenance schedule for an EV is annually changing the cabin filter, wiper blades, and doing a multi-point inspection. You're forgetting the brakes. EVs still have regular hydraulic brake systems that need new pads and fluid, though not as much because they can use regenerative braking much of the time, avoiding use of the friction brakes, which are really for emergency stops and full stops.
  - jki275 8y ago
    I've seen claims by Tesla that their brakes never need service due to the fact they're barely used. Not sure how accurate that is, but it's sort of logical.
    - magduf 8y ago
      Sounds like BS. Even if you almost never use them, brake fluid has a finite life and needs to be replaced every few years. Brake systems are never perfectly hermetically sealed and brake fluid is hygroscopic.

andrewmunsell 8y ago

With the exception of a few niche vehicles, most EVs have only 1 (FWD/RWD) or 2 (AWD) motors. Though it's a new platform, electric motors aren't exactly a new technology and overall it's significantly fewer moving parts to fail. There's also the fact that many manufacturers come up with a single "skateboard" platform for multiple vehicles, which reduces the overall complexity of manufacturing EVs.

throw0u1t 8y ago
As far as I understand the current state of EVs, EVs have eliminated the engine and it's ancillaries. However, EVs still have CV joints, differentials (dependent on the car, Tesla runs an open differential), independent suspension - all of which must be much stronger since electric motors produce far more torque than ICEs and also have the added weight penalty.
- 51lver 8y ago
  That's all very old and simple tech. The quality is only limited by the bean counters keeping costs down.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- cptskippy 8y ago
  The power-train is everything from wheels to engine. Where as drive-train is the power-train minus the engine. The transmission is the most complicated part of the drive-train and arguably more complicated than all of the other drive-train components combined. In current EVs there is no transmission, just a single reduction gearbox. In an EV the engine is dramatically simplified compared to an ICE and there are significantly fewer parts and almost no moving parts in comparison. Another thing to consider is that all internal combustion engines have multiple supplementary systems that are required to function such as cooling, fuel delivery, and ignition. At most an EV motor might require supplementary cooling but no commercial vehicle has one that I'm aware of.
  - throw0u1t 8y ago
    Of course, ICE powertrains have lots of moving parts, but the comparison that EV cars are simple is just not an accurate representation of EV cars. There are fewer moving parts, I agree. The architecture itself is simpler too, I agree. But the individual components are still massively complex and expensive. High density Lithion-ion is very complex, and also requires a number of supplementary systems to manage power, heat, cooling and monitor the array.
    - cptskippy 8y ago
      You could make the same argument about the exotic metallurgy used in ICE components. Just like with an ICE subsystem, most of those subsystems you mentioned aren't trade secrets and have far greater operating tolerances than in an ICE.

cptskippy 8y ago

> I would presume electric drive trains are quite complex. They're significantly less complicated than an ICE power-train and drive-train. The Nissan Leaf has a single electric motor and a fixed reduction gear box. The only fluids to maintain are the wiper fluid and reduction gear box fluid, which is similar to automatic transmission fluid but requires less maintenance. The battery pack is air cooled and the only servicing is an annual inspection to maintain warranty. The Tesla vehicles are all direct drive with no gearbox. They come in single or dual motor options. The batteries are cooled and the fluid is changed at 4 year intervals. The maintenance schedule for an EV is annually changing the cabin filter, wiper blades, and doing a multi-point inspection.

magduf 8y ago
>The Tesla vehicles are all direct drive with no gearbox. This is wrong. They have a single electric motor (except the dual-motor ones) and a fixed reduction gear box, just like the Leaf. No one does direct-drive electric motors because it's a lot easier to make a faster-spinning motor and then use a reduction gear to get usable torque from it; a direct-drive motor would have to have a huge diameter. >The maintenance schedule for an EV is annually changing the cabin filter, wiper blades, and doing a multi-point inspection. You're forgetting the brakes. EVs still have regular hydraulic brake systems that need new pads and fluid, though not as much because they can use regenerative braking much of the time, avoiding use of the friction brakes, which are really for emergency stops and full stops.
- jki275 8y ago
  I've seen claims by Tesla that their brakes never need service due to the fact they're barely used. Not sure how accurate that is, but it's sort of logical.
  - magduf 8y ago
    Sounds like BS. Even if you almost never use them, brake fluid has a finite life and needs to be replaced every few years. Brake systems are never perfectly hermetically sealed and brake fluid is hygroscopic.