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In our western democracies, especially the USA, not only messages are deleted but persons are. Either by lies or by harassment or by prison or by murder or by

In our western democracies, especially the USA, not only messages are deleted but persons are. Either by lies or by harassment or by prison or by murder or by wars against entire countries and their population. Notable examples: - Julian Assange. - Russia, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Venezuela, ... America Has Been at War 93% of the Time – 222 out of 239 Years – Since 1776 https://www.globalresearch.ca/america-has-been-at-war-93-of-the-time-222-out-of-239-years-since-1776/5565946 https://www.globalresearch.ca/america-has-been-at-war-93-of-... When was the last war promoted by Russia or China where hundreds of thousands of people died ? Madeleine Albright says 500,000 dead Iraqi Children was "worth it" wins Medal of Freedom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE And do not forget corruption of information by corporations and secrets services like the FBI and CIA. Whistleblower Exposes Facebook Censorship Techniques - Mindblowing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UzFTAeEzJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UzFTAeEzJ8 SHOCKER: FBI Admits Sabotaging Progressive Politicians As Policy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LYJSb-h9m8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LYJSb-h9m8 Macron vows to tighten media control because 'fake news threatens democracy' https://www.rt.com/news/414945-macron-france-fake-news-law/ https://www.rt.com/news/414945-macron-france-fake-news-law/ Food libel laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_libel_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_libel_laws

joyeuse6701 8y ago
whataboutism at it's best...Russia is a sponsor in the Syrian war. Besides, neither China nor Russia need the excuse of war to harm or murder, it's called 'reeducation'.
- lustysocietyorg 8y ago
  > Whataboutism Typically used by people who have nothing else to say. I did not write anything to excuse China. I wrote something that accuses the USA and our western democracies of being far worse than China for the world. Something very relevant regarding the fear mongering against Russia and China promoted by the message in the linked article that also promotes the worldview that the USA and the western democracies are beacons of goodness that must act against Russia and China. Besides, Russia was invited by the official and elected Syrian president. The USA invaded Syria and promoted terrorism. You should read about what Syrian people think about Russia and the USA in their country. Example: 'Thank you, Russia, Thank you, Putin' - BBC News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNTgL82D4Xo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNTgL82D4Xo
  - tannedNerd 8y ago
    Still missing the point. Astro-turfing one discussion into another point (conveniently one about a country that might be considered the primary adversary) is pretty much textbook Whataboutism.
  - slowmovintarget 8y ago
    > I wrote something that accuses the USA and our western democracies of being far worse than China for the world. I think that's a denial of reality, though. Soviet Russia killed roughly 10 million of its own people [1]. Mao's Great Leap forward killed roughly 45 million people. [2] This isn't some "they mucked around in someone else's backyard--cultural interference!!!" badness. Together, Russia and China killed the same number of people that World War II did (~ 55 million), and they did this to their own subjects. What the U.S. and other Western democracies did was to prevent these horrors from visiting the rest of the world. What Russia and China had in common, and still do, is that they were, and still are, totalitarian dictatorships. China happens to be the largest, most technologically advanced one we've ever seen. But it still is one. Totalitarian dictatorships are worse for the world. History has taught this much, at least. You won't hear me claiming that USA and Western democracies are "beacons of goodness", but it's silly to say "Nay! Nay! They're worse!" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor [2] https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/maos-great-leap-forward-killed-45-million-in-four-years-2081630.html https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/...
    - lustysocietyorg 8y ago
      We are in 2019. Important things have changed since 1933. Although unrelated but in reply to your message: China is a totalitarian dictatorship but I wonder if more Chinese people support it than US people support Trump or Clinton or any other of the war criminal mass murder US presidents that US democracy had elected in the last century. I hope that the Green Party or another reasonable party will be elected in the USA in 2020. Besides: AFAIK it is possible for many to use VPN in China to access the internet privately without censorship and without punishment. https://www.travelchinacheaper.com/is-it-legal-to-use-a-vpn-in-china https://www.travelchinacheaper.com/is-it-legal-to-use-a-vpn-...
sonnyblarney 8y ago
Your comments have entirely nothing to do with state regimes who monitor or coerce arbitrary citizens arbitrary communications. FYI 'Julian Assange' is wanted for specific crimes, this is normal in any nation - hopefully, if he is arrested, he'll have a chance to defend himself against specific claims. That would be a very, very public trial with a lot of scrutiny. ... and 'Russia, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Venezuela' are not 'notable examples' of anything in this context.
- ghtrytttttnsa 8y ago
  FYI Once a stubborn man is named the crime will either be found or invented.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    If the US gov charges someone with something, they'll have to provide evidence of a crime. It will happen in front of the world with full transparency. The US could fudge 'findings' from the CIA on Iraq, but they can't make up evidence in court.
    - lustysocietyorg 8y ago
      You are very naive. Julian Assange would be free if the USA respected journalism. But the USA does not. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/nov/16/julian-assange-wikileaks-have-criminal-charges-been-prepared-us https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/nov/16/julian-assange... For the USA, this is about about national pride and personal revenge. Trump said that a death sentence is appropriate. The trial and accusation might be kept secret. Like in Guantanamo and similar places around the world where people are held captive without trial and where torture is normal. Do you really think the world is worried about Julian Assange because a fair trial is expected ? Do you really think that he has spent his life in the Ecuadorian embassy since 2012 because a fair trial is expected ? Do you really think that Ecuador has protected Julian Assange in the embassy since 2012 because a fair trial is expected ?
      - 8y ago
Fins 8y ago
Last time I looked Russia (not even talking about USSR) not only promoted but is quite involved in war in Ukraine that had killed thousands of people already. Georgia. Transnistria, etc. Thousands of people (mostly civilians, of course) were killed in Chechnia alone. Pointing at Russia, of all places, as some kind of counter-example is laughable at best.

joyeuse6701 8y ago

whataboutism at it's best...Russia is a sponsor in the Syrian war. Besides, neither China nor Russia need the excuse of war to harm or murder, it's called 'reeducation'.

lustysocietyorg 8y ago
> Whataboutism Typically used by people who have nothing else to say. I did not write anything to excuse China. I wrote something that accuses the USA and our western democracies of being far worse than China for the world. Something very relevant regarding the fear mongering against Russia and China promoted by the message in the linked article that also promotes the worldview that the USA and the western democracies are beacons of goodness that must act against Russia and China. Besides, Russia was invited by the official and elected Syrian president. The USA invaded Syria and promoted terrorism. You should read about what Syrian people think about Russia and the USA in their country. Example: 'Thank you, Russia, Thank you, Putin' - BBC News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNTgL82D4Xo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNTgL82D4Xo
- tannedNerd 8y ago
  Still missing the point. Astro-turfing one discussion into another point (conveniently one about a country that might be considered the primary adversary) is pretty much textbook Whataboutism.
- slowmovintarget 8y ago
  > I wrote something that accuses the USA and our western democracies of being far worse than China for the world. I think that's a denial of reality, though. Soviet Russia killed roughly 10 million of its own people [1]. Mao's Great Leap forward killed roughly 45 million people. [2] This isn't some "they mucked around in someone else's backyard--cultural interference!!!" badness. Together, Russia and China killed the same number of people that World War II did (~ 55 million), and they did this to their own subjects. What the U.S. and other Western democracies did was to prevent these horrors from visiting the rest of the world. What Russia and China had in common, and still do, is that they were, and still are, totalitarian dictatorships. China happens to be the largest, most technologically advanced one we've ever seen. But it still is one. Totalitarian dictatorships are worse for the world. History has taught this much, at least. You won't hear me claiming that USA and Western democracies are "beacons of goodness", but it's silly to say "Nay! Nay! They're worse!" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor [2] https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/maos-great-leap-forward-killed-45-million-in-four-years-2081630.html https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/...
  - lustysocietyorg 8y ago
    We are in 2019. Important things have changed since 1933. Although unrelated but in reply to your message: China is a totalitarian dictatorship but I wonder if more Chinese people support it than US people support Trump or Clinton or any other of the war criminal mass murder US presidents that US democracy had elected in the last century. I hope that the Green Party or another reasonable party will be elected in the USA in 2020. Besides: AFAIK it is possible for many to use VPN in China to access the internet privately without censorship and without punishment. https://www.travelchinacheaper.com/is-it-legal-to-use-a-vpn-in-china https://www.travelchinacheaper.com/is-it-legal-to-use-a-vpn-...

sonnyblarney 8y ago

Your comments have entirely nothing to do with state regimes who monitor or coerce arbitrary citizens arbitrary communications. FYI 'Julian Assange' is wanted for specific crimes, this is normal in any nation - hopefully, if he is arrested, he'll have a chance to defend himself against specific claims. That would be a very, very public trial with a lot of scrutiny. ... and 'Russia, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Venezuela' are not 'notable examples' of anything in this context.

ghtrytttttnsa 8y ago
FYI Once a stubborn man is named the crime will either be found or invented.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  If the US gov charges someone with something, they'll have to provide evidence of a crime. It will happen in front of the world with full transparency. The US could fudge 'findings' from the CIA on Iraq, but they can't make up evidence in court.
  - lustysocietyorg 8y ago
    You are very naive. Julian Assange would be free if the USA respected journalism. But the USA does not. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/nov/16/julian-assange-wikileaks-have-criminal-charges-been-prepared-us https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/nov/16/julian-assange... For the USA, this is about about national pride and personal revenge. Trump said that a death sentence is appropriate. The trial and accusation might be kept secret. Like in Guantanamo and similar places around the world where people are held captive without trial and where torture is normal. Do you really think the world is worried about Julian Assange because a fair trial is expected ? Do you really think that he has spent his life in the Ecuadorian embassy since 2012 because a fair trial is expected ? Do you really think that Ecuador has protected Julian Assange in the embassy since 2012 because a fair trial is expected ?
    - 8y ago

Fins 8y ago

Last time I looked Russia (not even talking about USSR) not only promoted but is quite involved in war in Ukraine that had killed thousands of people already. Georgia. Transnistria, etc. Thousands of people (mostly civilians, of course) were killed in Chechnia alone. Pointing at Russia, of all places, as some kind of counter-example is laughable at best.