5 ms·
Ask HN: Advice about possible extortion?
I am posting this on behalf of another HN member with less karma.
Someone close to me operates a medical practice in a fairly densely populated area of a very large city. Over the last few months, very negative reviews started appearing on review sites (like Yelp and Yahoo reviews) from users with no review history. The negative reviews are interspersed with others, which are a mixed bag (but tend towards the very positive) and probably valid. Normally I'd assume she's just getting negative reviews and move on, but she's received a fax from someone saying they're aware of the problem and can help her fix it, with a return phone number and an address that's geographically on the other side of the country. I'm assuming as soon as she contacts them they'll ask for money (or worse) to take them down. In my opinion, this is a terrible precedent to set.
I remember hearing about Yelp doing this themselves, but never a third party. Googling for the problem also lead to few similar situations. Given that the practice has very few reviews as it is, it is tarnishing her image quite a bit and she has noticed a downturn in the number of patients she's been seeing.
So far, we've been advising, under no circumstances, to reach out to this person.
Does anyone have any experience with situations like this or can offer advice?
- absconditus 16y agoHere is a previous discussion about Yelp's practices: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1148458 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1148458
- jacquesm 16y agoPlease whatever you do and no matter how much it may hurt in the short term: completely and utterly ignore these people. Once they figure you're vulnerable they will start to work on your account 'overtime'. Yelp is a bunch of scum (for not verifying that a relation between reviewer and reviewee exists) and I wouldn't be surprised if they were involved directly or indirectly, the temptation must be huge. A negative review system should be run based on verified ID of the reviewer, anything less is simply setting up a vehicle for blackmail. Apparently one of Yelps income streams is to influence the sort order for paying customers, positive reviews on top. Of course that only works when there are negative reviews. Blackmailers are cowards and as a rule they move to the softest targets, any kind of response that they've been noticed is going to backfire big time. good luck with this
- lotusleaf1987 16y agoI agree, Yelp is not a reliable source at all. I've gone to places that had 4-4.5 star ratings on Yelp and were utter garbage in service, food quality, and price. I've been let down more times than not. Ignore these people and maybe try contacting Yelp and see if they can do anything about the reviews from people with no other review history and fill them in on the blackmail threat, maybe they can help, I don't know though.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- inovica 16y agoVery good advice. We had something, not quite the same but relating to some negative posts on forums, where our lawyers suggested we go after them. I spoke to a friend of a friend who is a litigator, who told me (in a friendly capacity) that "principals can be expensive things" and that I should just continue doing a good job. We did that and it went away thanks to our own user-base coming to our aid. Turned out that it was one competitor (in our case) who decided to talk negatively about us. As an aside though, we now monitor forums and social media that relate to us. The added benefit of this is that we can provide better customer service in an event where someone has a gripe and they express it publicly, rather than via our own support channels. Anyway, I'd agree with the above advice. Tell your friend good luck. Maybe she should find a way to help her customers to be more vocal about her business
- nkurz 16y ago
- matrix 16y agoI suggest calling your local FBI field office, and discussing your best course of action with an agent. Most likely they'll tell you that you're on your own, but you never know. The level of loss is far below what normally interests them, but if you could show that this is widespread, that could change things.
- msredmond 16y agoReally think its a better idea to find out what this is first -- really could just be marketing (albeit dumb marketing). Unless there was a direct threat (wording would need to be shared here by original poster), sounds like there's not much of a case for involving law enforcement, at least at this point.
- matrix 16y agoYou're absolutely right; I jumped to conclusions a little too hastily. That said, I just did a check on online reviews for a doctor I know well and whom I know has been one the most loved and respected doctors in the community for decades. I also know his reviews were excellent 6 months ago. However, today, there are now some 1 star reviews. Hmmm...
- jrockway 16y agoNever attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Here's the thing with review sites; the reviews are not made by people qualified to write reviews. I've seen one-star reviews on Amazon because the person bought the wrong item and they didn't like the return policy. I've seen one-star reviews on Yelp because the restaurant didn't use recyclable takeout forks. It's really dumb to put any value into the star-rating system, and yet people do it. I only look at the stars if there are 40 or more reviews. Then at least a few people with some common sense got a chance to weigh in.
- msredmond 16y agoI suspect this is marketing more than anything. There are companies out there that specialize in cleaning up online reputations. Perhaps that's just how they market -- look up companies, then try to reach out to do it -- but not in a very good way, it sounds like. Have you done a reverse look-up on the numbers (phone # provided and fax)?
- tomjen3 16y agoRecord the call (if it is legal to do so), when they start asking for money, send the tape to the FBI.
- anamax 16y agoDon't play police. Get real police involved and let them drive. They know what they're doing. You're not going to do it any better and you might do it significantly worse.
- mathgladiator 16y agoI think the review scene is going to be open to data mining for fraud detection (or some kind of karma), and I think the HN community should pay attention to this as a problem that needs fixing. In your case, I would rally friends to place positive reviews to counter-balance the forces of evil. Involve the patients of the practitioner (usually works when the operation is smaller and the relationships are stronger).
- mattmaroon 16y agoI would reach out to them, though only to get their contact info. Anything that may be personally identifiable would be great. I'd also record the conversation. Then I'd take it all to the FBI. I'd also send it into Yelp, they'll probably remove the offending posts if you've gotten all that. Extortion is just as illegal on Yelp as anywhere else. Of course as many mentioned here, don't pay. They'll just do it to you again if you do.
- jacquesm 16y ago> They'll just do it to you again if you do. And to others too. Don't forget that a blackmailer that is successful is encouraged that 'the formula' works. If people en-bloc refuse to give in it will eventually stop.
- WillyF 16y agoI think that it would be a great time to start encouraging current patients to leave reviews online. I know there are some startups that automate this kind of thing. It's a good thing to do anyway, and it especially makes sense in this situation.
- aberkowitz 16y agoA simple solution is to append a request for feedback on Yelp / Yahoo to the bottom of all receipts or invoices: Our goal at [Name of Medical Office] is to provide you with the best care possible. If you liked your experience today, please let us know by leaving a review on our Yelp [url] or Yahoo [url] review pages.
- Rob_RepDef 16y agoHi, my name is Rob Frappier and I am the Community Manager for ReputationDefender. Our company focuses on helping individuals and businesses protect their reputations online. Unfortunately, there are a variety of companies that operate under the extortionate business model that the original poster discusses. They offer "solutions" to the problems that they themselves have created. The fact that most consumer review sites do not require individuals to disclose their actual identity makes it difficult for business owners to determine the validity of reviews and to pursue legal action in the case of defamation. In our experience, the best solution to mitigate damage done by inaccurate or defamatory online reviews is to focus on proactive reputation management efforts. Increasingly, doctors, lawyers, and other professionals are turning to social media tools to help build their brands online. This provides the dual benefit of protecting against reputation damage while also creating positive content for Google and other search engines. At ReputationDefender, we offer solutions to help business owners get started on a proactive reputation management campaign. However, there are steps that your friend can take to help repair the damage on her own. Here is some advice from our Online Resource Center tailored for medical professionals - http://www.reputationdefender.com/how_to/online-reputation-management-tips-for-doctors/ http://www.reputationdefender.com/how_to/online-reputation-m.... On a related note, Yelp co-founder Jeremy Stoppelman recently did an interview with Mashable.com to discuss how Yelp has added new features to try and deal with false and malicious reviews in the wake of multiple class-action lawsuits against the company. Here's a link to the interview - http://mashable.com/2010/10/28/jeremy-stoppelman-yelp-interview/ http://mashable.com/2010/10/28/jeremy-stoppelman-yelp-interv.... Best regards, Rob