4 ms·

I think this is a problem across the board in UK univeristies these days. When I did my CS degree (1993), I was one of two people in the year who got 1st class,

I think this is a problem across the board in UK univeristies these days. When I did my CS degree (1993), I was one of two people in the year who got 1st class, now I think it's something like 25% awarded 1sts and the rest get 2:1s

chrisseaton 8y ago
I'm not convinced people aren't just legitimately working a lot harder. When I went to university graduating in 2007, so just before the crash but not really very long ago, everyone was pretty chilled out about their courses. Nobody did internships. As long as people weren't failing they were relaxed and enjoyed themselves. Getting a 2:2 was a bit of banter rather than a serious threat to your ability to ever get a good job. Now when I see students they are laser focused on absolutely doing the best they can in order to survive in a much more competitive world. I'd be working harder now as well.
- gdfasfklshg4 8y ago
  It was already fairly clear by then that major employers require a 2:1.
  - Aeolun 8y ago
    Can someone explain what that means to me? Is this a kind of grade?
    - chrisseaton 8y ago
      British final undergraduate degree grades are first class honours (1st), upper second class honours (2:1), lower second class honours (2:2), third class honours (3rd), or ordinary degree. That's what you put on job application forms. We don't use a GPA. A 1st is good. A 2:1 is fine. A 2:2 is a problem. A 3rd is a failure. Some people use cockney rhyming slang - a 2:2 is a 'Desmond' (Desmond Tutu, two-two). In some cases you can get a double 1st, or triple 1st, but these are very specific to your university and are about what courses you took.
      - pmyteh 8y ago
        And, critically, the variance varies by discipline: science subjects hand out more firsts and thirds, while humanities subjects might give two-thirds of their students two-ones. So, as a single grade it's not particularly meaningful even within a given university. There's some cross-university moderation (there are external examiners for each course from somewhere else) but that only goes so far.
- mietek 8y ago
  Standards have been lowered. Here’s a perspective from someone who used to be a tenured lecturer in the UK: http://www.marktarver.com/professor.html http://www.marktarver.com/professor.html
- danans 8y ago
  > When I went to university graduating in 2007, so just before the crash but not really very long ago, everyone was pretty chilled out about their courses. Nobody did internships Perhaps these things go in cycles. When I was in university in the late 90s, almost everyone tried to get some sort of internship over the summer, and some were very competitive. The telecoms were booming back then and I was turned down by one of the big companies (Nortel) before landing a co-op at a smaller network equipment maker. I was definitely influenced by the on campus CS culture (big "top 5" state school), which encouraged summer internships. However, I could also see how people who entered college after seeing and experiencing the economic pain of 2008 would have a more focused approach to how they spent their time in university.
bytematic 8y ago
I'm not from the UK but I remember hearing that they were making school much easier over time their, almost to the point of "impossible to fail". Is this true of age 5-18?
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  > almost to the point of "impossible to fail" No, a full third of GCSE exams are fails. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-45282518 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-45282518

chrisseaton 8y ago

I'm not convinced people aren't just legitimately working a lot harder. When I went to university graduating in 2007, so just before the crash but not really very long ago, everyone was pretty chilled out about their courses. Nobody did internships. As long as people weren't failing they were relaxed and enjoyed themselves. Getting a 2:2 was a bit of banter rather than a serious threat to your ability to ever get a good job. Now when I see students they are laser focused on absolutely doing the best they can in order to survive in a much more competitive world. I'd be working harder now as well.

gdfasfklshg4 8y ago
It was already fairly clear by then that major employers require a 2:1.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  Can someone explain what that means to me? Is this a kind of grade?
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    British final undergraduate degree grades are first class honours (1st), upper second class honours (2:1), lower second class honours (2:2), third class honours (3rd), or ordinary degree. That's what you put on job application forms. We don't use a GPA. A 1st is good. A 2:1 is fine. A 2:2 is a problem. A 3rd is a failure. Some people use cockney rhyming slang - a 2:2 is a 'Desmond' (Desmond Tutu, two-two). In some cases you can get a double 1st, or triple 1st, but these are very specific to your university and are about what courses you took.
    - pmyteh 8y ago
      And, critically, the variance varies by discipline: science subjects hand out more firsts and thirds, while humanities subjects might give two-thirds of their students two-ones. So, as a single grade it's not particularly meaningful even within a given university. There's some cross-university moderation (there are external examiners for each course from somewhere else) but that only goes so far.
mietek 8y ago
Standards have been lowered. Here’s a perspective from someone who used to be a tenured lecturer in the UK: http://www.marktarver.com/professor.html http://www.marktarver.com/professor.html
danans 8y ago
> When I went to university graduating in 2007, so just before the crash but not really very long ago, everyone was pretty chilled out about their courses. Nobody did internships Perhaps these things go in cycles. When I was in university in the late 90s, almost everyone tried to get some sort of internship over the summer, and some were very competitive. The telecoms were booming back then and I was turned down by one of the big companies (Nortel) before landing a co-op at a smaller network equipment maker. I was definitely influenced by the on campus CS culture (big "top 5" state school), which encouraged summer internships. However, I could also see how people who entered college after seeing and experiencing the economic pain of 2008 would have a more focused approach to how they spent their time in university.

bytematic 8y ago

I'm not from the UK but I remember hearing that they were making school much easier over time their, almost to the point of "impossible to fail". Is this true of age 5-18?

chrisseaton 8y ago
> almost to the point of "impossible to fail" No, a full third of GCSE exams are fails. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-45282518 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-45282518