4 ms·

I'm confused why this is news or surprising? At least for the audience here. I remember plugins for various IM clients would do the same thing in a chat windo

I'm confused why this is news or surprising? At least for the audience here. I remember plugins for various IM clients would do the same thing in a chat window some decades ago. And I remember my days as a sysop in the good old single line dial up BBS days. You could watch users browse and type all the way back in the mid-80's and I'm sure this has existed about as long as multi-user computers have. If you're typing into an application which is any part of a networked or multi-user system, assume someone can see what you do while you're doing it (and can log same for later review). ...maybe I'm just old and don't understand the kids these days... or maybe it's a slow news day...

anthk 8y ago
You meant Pidgin's modes? It has methods to guess when a user was typing, but not the content.
- sbuttgereit 8y ago
  Thought it was Pidgin, but might have been ICQ... it was a long, long time ago that I used any of these... can't remember specifically; maybe even MSN via Pidgin. Seems like it would have been more a function of the protocol that you were using than the client/plugin specifically (naturally that had to support it, too, but the more fundamental would have been the protocol.)
  - slobotron 8y ago
    Definitely at the very least ICQ had it - remember freaking out friends by replying to their questions before they even clicked send. This was late 90s...
  - j79 8y ago
    I'm a bit older and also remember this as well. I would watch in real time when my friends would type something out, or call out their mistakes in typing. I believe you're right about it being ICQ.
  - coupdejarnac 8y ago
    I remember this being a feature of ICQ in 1998.
noxToken 8y ago
The older IM clients (AIM, MSN, Yahoo, et al.) could tell you if someone was typing or entered unsent text, but it never previewed what had been typed. At least that wasn't a default option back then.
- sbuttgereit 8y ago
  It wasn't the default option for sure and I remember having some extra add-on/plugin for it... ...but I recall that it was great fun (for about 5 minutes) answering questions before they had been fully typed and sent since I was the faster typist.
- ben174 8y ago
  ICQ had a character-by-character mode they experimented with for a while. It was kinda fun. BBSs too.
  - copperx 8y ago
    Character by character IS fun. I've always wondered why newer messaging platforms haven't implemented it yet.
- shpx 8y ago
  The history of real-time text probably goes back to at least the 1960's on the Compatible Time-Sharing System (CTSS). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk_(software) if you're on macOS, you have this command installed http://mailman.postel.org/pipermail/internet-history/2002-December/000195.html http://mailman.postel.org/pipermail/internet-history/2002-De... (click on "Previous message" a few times too) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_text https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_text
- stordoff 8y ago
  Modern IM clients do the same. I noticed WhatsApp saying "+44... is typing..." earlier.
russley 8y ago
I think a lot of it has to do with consumer expectations. We can all sit here and laugh and act unsurprised, but technology has conditioned users that the response isn't sent until you press "Send". Its bad (and I'd argue harmful) UX. Imagine this scenario: Copying and pasting a debug log, realizing it contains personal or important information (such as password, SSN, or anything else) and it is sent to the agent before you have a chance to redact that info. Or it could be accidentally pasting the wrong thing. I know that I've accidentally pasted Twitter links into my code before. EDIT: Just to clarify my point. If you're going to break deeply entrenched user expectations, especially in ways that are often used maliciously: explicitly say you are subverting those expectations. The same reason there are "This call may be recorded" messages when calling in, it shouldn't hurt much to add a "For quality assurance purposes, your keypresses may be logged in the chat window". And if it does hurt, then you should realize your subversion is malicious.
- bradknowles 8y ago
  Of course it's malicious. But it's so profitable!
- abugheratwork 8y ago
  I think you're right. I also think the browser, as your agent, should enforce expectations. "This website wants to upload data. Allow? [Once] [Always] [No] [Click here to see the data.]"
  - slavik81 8y ago
    Unfortunately, you'd have to prohibit downloads as well, as the request sent to the server could contain information.
sixothree 8y ago
We all know in the back of our head that it's possible. But seeing confirmation that it is happening definitely changes how I feel about textboxes.
lcfcjs2 8y ago
Because normally the client doesn't send anything with each keystroke, it would be enormously wasteful.
jacurtis 8y ago
Yeah exactly, this isn't anything new. This has been around for many years and is offered by a majority of live chat solutions out there. As you mentioned, I am shocked that the HN audience is shocked by this. I could see my parent's being surprised to discover this, but most HN readers should have figured this out a long time ago.
ggm 8y ago
I am old, and I've been online since 1984, and I still make beginner mistakes because like anyone else, I've been trained to click through and forget the risks, when I am acting like a consumer of service. Maybe you have more discipline, more sense of control and focus all the time. I don't and I know I am prone to making simplifying assumptions about things, because thats .. well .. human. So.. I think either you are in denial about when you too make these kinds of mistakes "oh no: that only happens to other people, never happens to me" or .. you are a cyborg from the future. I FOR ONE WELCOME OUR NON-FOOLABLE ROBOT OVERLORDS

anthk 8y ago

You meant Pidgin's modes? It has methods to guess when a user was typing, but not the content.

sbuttgereit 8y ago
Thought it was Pidgin, but might have been ICQ... it was a long, long time ago that I used any of these... can't remember specifically; maybe even MSN via Pidgin. Seems like it would have been more a function of the protocol that you were using than the client/plugin specifically (naturally that had to support it, too, but the more fundamental would have been the protocol.)
- slobotron 8y ago
  Definitely at the very least ICQ had it - remember freaking out friends by replying to their questions before they even clicked send. This was late 90s...
- j79 8y ago
  I'm a bit older and also remember this as well. I would watch in real time when my friends would type something out, or call out their mistakes in typing. I believe you're right about it being ICQ.
- coupdejarnac 8y ago
  I remember this being a feature of ICQ in 1998.

noxToken 8y ago

The older IM clients (AIM, MSN, Yahoo, et al.) could tell you if someone was typing or entered unsent text, but it never previewed what had been typed. At least that wasn't a default option back then.

sbuttgereit 8y ago
It wasn't the default option for sure and I remember having some extra add-on/plugin for it... ...but I recall that it was great fun (for about 5 minutes) answering questions before they had been fully typed and sent since I was the faster typist.
ben174 8y ago
ICQ had a character-by-character mode they experimented with for a while. It was kinda fun. BBSs too.
- copperx 8y ago
  Character by character IS fun. I've always wondered why newer messaging platforms haven't implemented it yet.
shpx 8y ago
The history of real-time text probably goes back to at least the 1960's on the Compatible Time-Sharing System (CTSS). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk_(software) if you're on macOS, you have this command installed http://mailman.postel.org/pipermail/internet-history/2002-December/000195.html http://mailman.postel.org/pipermail/internet-history/2002-De... (click on "Previous message" a few times too) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_text https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_text
stordoff 8y ago
Modern IM clients do the same. I noticed WhatsApp saying "+44... is typing..." earlier.

russley 8y ago

I think a lot of it has to do with consumer expectations. We can all sit here and laugh and act unsurprised, but technology has conditioned users that the response isn't sent until you press "Send". Its bad (and I'd argue harmful) UX. Imagine this scenario: Copying and pasting a debug log, realizing it contains personal or important information (such as password, SSN, or anything else) and it is sent to the agent before you have a chance to redact that info. Or it could be accidentally pasting the wrong thing. I know that I've accidentally pasted Twitter links into my code before. EDIT: Just to clarify my point. If you're going to break deeply entrenched user expectations, especially in ways that are often used maliciously: explicitly say you are subverting those expectations. The same reason there are "This call may be recorded" messages when calling in, it shouldn't hurt much to add a "For quality assurance purposes, your keypresses may be logged in the chat window". And if it does hurt, then you should realize your subversion is malicious.

bradknowles 8y ago
Of course it's malicious. But it's so profitable!
abugheratwork 8y ago
I think you're right. I also think the browser, as your agent, should enforce expectations. "This website wants to upload data. Allow? [Once] [Always] [No] [Click here to see the data.]"
- slavik81 8y ago
  Unfortunately, you'd have to prohibit downloads as well, as the request sent to the server could contain information.

sixothree 8y ago

We all know in the back of our head that it's possible. But seeing confirmation that it is happening definitely changes how I feel about textboxes.

lcfcjs2 8y ago

Because normally the client doesn't send anything with each keystroke, it would be enormously wasteful.

jacurtis 8y ago

Yeah exactly, this isn't anything new. This has been around for many years and is offered by a majority of live chat solutions out there. As you mentioned, I am shocked that the HN audience is shocked by this. I could see my parent's being surprised to discover this, but most HN readers should have figured this out a long time ago.

ggm 8y ago

I am old, and I've been online since 1984, and I still make beginner mistakes because like anyone else, I've been trained to click through and forget the risks, when I am acting like a consumer of service. Maybe you have more discipline, more sense of control and focus all the time. I don't and I know I am prone to making simplifying assumptions about things, because thats .. well .. human. So.. I think either you are in denial about when you too make these kinds of mistakes "oh no: that only happens to other people, never happens to me" or .. you are a cyborg from the future. I FOR ONE WELCOME OUR NON-FOOLABLE ROBOT OVERLORDS