4 ms·

Or 1% of the budget of the department of defense. In other words, a sideshow.

by Voloskaya 8y ago

raverbashing 8y ago
The trick is to make the military finance your science project by finding a military justification for it.
- aaronblohowiak 8y ago
  I don’t know why you were downvoted, a lot of CompSci research is funded this way, including some of the things a few of us enjoy today (internet.)
- mturmon 8y ago
  It worked for Galileo: https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/galileo-was-one-of-the-worlds-first-defense-contractors https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/galileo-was-one-of-t...
EpicEng 8y ago
Agreed, but good luck convincing Congress. You have to deal with the reality of the situation. Sure, the money exists, but you won't get it. So what do you do with the money you _can_ get?
- Noxmiles 8y ago
  Luckily, CERN is not financed by the US Gov.
  - EpicEng 8y ago
    Of course, but problems around funding are not unique to the US. You still have to make do with that you can get.
  - Analog24 8y ago
    The U.S. isn't a member state but the US government (through the NSF and DOE) contribute a ton of money to the research, development, and operation of the LHC and it's major experiments.
Will_Parker 8y ago
What's the budget towards fusion energy research? Given the political difficulties in funding fundamental research, would that be a better sideshow for making a positive difference in the world if we had to prioritize one or the other?
Invictus0 8y ago
What criticisms of the military budget always fail to take into account is that the military budget funds science too. The US Government is the largest sponsor of science in the world, and the military currently funds more science dollar for inflation adjusted dollar than it did even during the cold war. The military's budget for Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation in 2016 was 69B, or 11.9% of the total budget. https://csbaonline.org/reports/research-development-test-and-evaluation https://csbaonline.org/reports/research-development-test-and... https://www.aip.org/fyi/2018/fy19-budget-request-defense-st-stable-dod-focuses-technology-transition https://www.aip.org/fyi/2018/fy19-budget-request-defense-st-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_...
- DoctorOetker 8y ago
  development, testing and evaluation in a military context does not sound like fundamental science at all... sure there will be research, and some of it will be open, but all the research behind closed doors does not enjoy the scrutiny of normal research, so there is plenty of opportunity to waste money on nonsense "research" ...
  - ghtrytttttnsa 8y ago
    Observing the superior tech used by even standard military it's obvious that there is a fuckton of pure reserch going on, most of it will be top secret for many years though. NSA records this message and will apply some superhuman quantum algorithms to it and theres nothing I can do about it. Hail our petrodollar overlords!
    - DoctorOetker 8y ago
      I'm sure we are simply talking about different kinds of research... Just like I'm sure 20 years ago a market researcher was convinced he was doing "pure" research...
titzer 8y ago
The point that I was trying to make, which apparently must be downvoted into oblivion, is that comparing big numbers to really huge numbers leads to some very distorted conclusions. No matter how really huge the defense budget is[1], spending $20 on a drinking straw is a lot. Speaking of someone who has been on the receiving end of lots of research money throughout my career, still...$6 billion is a lot of money, and it should not be wasted. I agree with the original article that a new particle collider probably is not what we should do with this money. [1] (and yes I agree it's too much--go fight that battle if you like, but you probably won't win a single cent back)
- arbitrage 8y ago
  knock off the whinging about downvotes. this isn't reddit. people dislike what you're saying. move on.

Or 1% of the budget of the department of defense. In other words, a sideshow.

raverbashing 8y ago

The trick is to make the military finance your science project by finding a military justification for it.

aaronblohowiak 8y ago
I don’t know why you were downvoted, a lot of CompSci research is funded this way, including some of the things a few of us enjoy today (internet.)
mturmon 8y ago
It worked for Galileo: https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/galileo-was-one-of-the-worlds-first-defense-contractors https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/galileo-was-one-of-t...

EpicEng 8y ago

Agreed, but good luck convincing Congress. You have to deal with the reality of the situation. Sure, the money exists, but you won't get it. So what do you do with the money you _can_ get?

Noxmiles 8y ago
Luckily, CERN is not financed by the US Gov.
- EpicEng 8y ago
  Of course, but problems around funding are not unique to the US. You still have to make do with that you can get.
- Analog24 8y ago
  The U.S. isn't a member state but the US government (through the NSF and DOE) contribute a ton of money to the research, development, and operation of the LHC and it's major experiments.

Will_Parker 8y ago

What's the budget towards fusion energy research? Given the political difficulties in funding fundamental research, would that be a better sideshow for making a positive difference in the world if we had to prioritize one or the other?

Invictus0 8y ago

What criticisms of the military budget always fail to take into account is that the military budget funds science too. The US Government is the largest sponsor of science in the world, and the military currently funds more science dollar for inflation adjusted dollar than it did even during the cold war. The military's budget for Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation in 2016 was 69B, or 11.9% of the total budget. https://csbaonline.org/reports/research-development-test-and-evaluation https://csbaonline.org/reports/research-development-test-and... https://www.aip.org/fyi/2018/fy19-budget-request-defense-st-stable-dod-focuses-technology-transition https://www.aip.org/fyi/2018/fy19-budget-request-defense-st-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_...

DoctorOetker 8y ago
development, testing and evaluation in a military context does not sound like fundamental science at all... sure there will be research, and some of it will be open, but all the research behind closed doors does not enjoy the scrutiny of normal research, so there is plenty of opportunity to waste money on nonsense "research" ...
- ghtrytttttnsa 8y ago
  Observing the superior tech used by even standard military it's obvious that there is a fuckton of pure reserch going on, most of it will be top secret for many years though. NSA records this message and will apply some superhuman quantum algorithms to it and theres nothing I can do about it. Hail our petrodollar overlords!
  - DoctorOetker 8y ago
    I'm sure we are simply talking about different kinds of research... Just like I'm sure 20 years ago a market researcher was convinced he was doing "pure" research...

titzer 8y ago

The point that I was trying to make, which apparently must be downvoted into oblivion, is that comparing big numbers to really huge numbers leads to some very distorted conclusions. No matter how really huge the defense budget is[1], spending $20 on a drinking straw is a lot. Speaking of someone who has been on the receiving end of lots of research money throughout my career, still...$6 billion is a lot of money, and it should not be wasted. I agree with the original article that a new particle collider probably is not what we should do with this money. [1] (and yes I agree it's too much--go fight that battle if you like, but you probably won't win a single cent back)

arbitrage 8y ago
knock off the whinging about downvotes. this isn't reddit. people dislike what you're saying. move on.