5 ms·

This is off-topic, but I'm amazed by the descriptions at the end of TFA (I know, I know, it's a press release, but still...) Oracle is the world’s most complet

by pluies 16y ago

This is off-topic, but I'm amazed by the descriptions at the end of TFA (I know, I know, it's a press release, but still...) Oracle is the world’s most complete, open and integrated business software and hardware systems company. (...) Let's grant integrated and complete, but definitely not "open". Though this is dwarfed by Apple's incredible self-praise: Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork, and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple is reinventing the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and has recently introduced its magical iPad which is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices. Woah there cowboy! A bit of humility maybe?

brown9-2 16y ago
Just goes to show how meaningless "open" has become.
- brudgers 16y ago
  "Open" as in "Open for business."
  - bl4k 16y ago
    and 'Open to taking your money'
tertius 16y ago
I'm no fanboy, believe me. But most of that is pretty accurate.
- kevindication 16y ago
  The iPad is magical?
  - larsberg 16y ago
    Indeed. And seemingly animate as well, since it "is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices." Would've thought that was the folks making and using them, but hey, I'm not the one wearing the turtlenecks. (And yes, I own an iPad. But probably not the one that is going around defining things. Other than words. With a dictionary app.)
    - apl 16y ago
      It's an absolutely acceptable use of the verb "define." There's nothing about it that requires an animate subject.
  - brudgers 16y ago
    To the same degree that the other statements are accurate.
  - andreyf 16y ago
    Yes, for at least one definition of magical: beautiful or delightful in such a way as to seem removed from everyday life.
  - chc 16y ago
    A lot of people do have that reaction to it, yes.
  - jonhendry 16y ago
    People using them with their autistic or otherwise-disabled kids seem to think the iPad is as close to magical as you're likely to find in the real world.
- pkirk 16y ago
  I'm no a meta-fanboy, believe me. But a real fanboy would have written that comment too.
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    Meta-fanboy = a fan of "meta"? Meta-fanboy = a fan of fanboys? Meta-feta fanboy = those who admire the processing of Mediterranean cheese.
- fjh 16y ago
  Too meaningless to be false is hardly the same as "pretty accurate".
GHFigs 16y ago
A bit of humility maybe? Why? If you think your product is the best, say so. If you think your product is revolutionary, say so. If you think your product is magical, say so. If you think your product is defining the future, say so. The only reason I can see to criticize a PR footer like that is if you think the company doesn't actually think of itself that way and is just trying to bullshit the reader.
- tertius 16y ago
  As a side note, I wouldn't call Apple products "magical", maybe to the extent that they make people's money disappear. But that can be explained, somehow, without magic too. I think the focus of his reply should have been on Jobs' giant ego, which is undeniable.
  - ugh 16y ago
    I really don't understand why so many “techy” people freak out as soon as Apple dares to use the word “magical”. That's certainly much better than calling everything “innovative” and it is self explanatory if you don't play stupid. Apple deserves to be lauded for not using overly boring adjectives once in their boilerplate blurb.
    - RickHull 16y ago
      > Apple deserves to be lauded for not using overly boring adjectives once in their boilerplate blurb. Plaudits for using hyperbole? Oh laud, gag me with a spoon, please.
      - ugh 16y ago
        If a company wants to dazzle me with bombastic statements they can at least try to not be boring. (I’m also not sure whether it’s hyperbole. I would guess that many people working at Apple actually believe the boilerplate. That might make them deluded but not hyperbolic.)
        deleted 16y ago
gaius 16y ago
You're using the wrong definition. "Open" in this context is the same as OpenVMS, Openstep, OpenLook, Openview, yadda yadda. Open standard, not open source.
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  Which only demonstrates that "openness-abuse" has been with us for many years...
tzs 16y ago
Well, considering that whenever someone posts on a technical forum (such as HN) asking what laptop to get to run Linux, they receive a lot of recommendations that they get Macs, I don't think "best personal computers in the world" is too far out of line for Apple to claim. iPods completely dominate portable music playback, and the iTunes store is one of the biggest sellers of music in the world (didn't they take #1 a while back?). That would justify "leads the digital music revolution". Take a look at Android's UI design before the iPhone came out, and compare to after iPhone. Look familiar? Take a similar look at mobile app sales before and after iPhone. "Revolutionary" is an acceptable claim, considering how much the mobile phone industry changed in direct response to the iPhone. That leaves the iPad, the only one on the list they may have overhyped in the press release. Sure, it blows away every other attempt at a tablet so far, but most of the other table makers trying to capitalize on the iPad's success seem to be aiming for smaller tablets, so we can't yet say the iPad is "defining the future".
- bubbleboy 16y ago
  apple laptops ≠ linux machines. in fact, most of the new macbooks are quite hard to get running on something modern like ubuntu 10.4 LTS, and just because OSX is a derivative of BSD doesn't make it friendly with current linux versions. especially those macbooks with "automatic graphics switching" and the like. sure you can boot, but all the [proprietary] advanced [closed] features that apple adds don't really function at all. linux is great on a 2 year old macbook, however.
  - danudey 16y ago
    I think the reason that people suggest Mac over Linux for laptops is that 1. Apple makes really good laptops. They're solid, they're lightweight, they're not creaky and they don't feel cheap; 2. You can do anything on OS X that you can on Linux (e.g. running bash, RoR, Python scripting, most open-source software). This is a big part of the reason geeks are moving in large volumes to the Mac: you can have your laptop, you can compile and run Apache or PHP, install gems, test Rails, and it's all just as effortless as in Linux (or, depending on the Linux distro, even more so). What you don't have to do is re-configure X or your nvidia drivers when a 'yum update' does a kernel upgrade, and you suddenly find yourself without X for ten minutes while you find and run the nvidia kernel module builder/installer (a problem everyone in my office had every few weeks at one company). A lot of stuff just works effortlessly, and while this is getting better in Linux, there's still a lot of 'gotchas' that crop up out of nowhere because some company or some developer just doesn't care. It's not a question of 'You want Linux, buy a Mac and run Linux on it', it's a question of asking why the user wants Linux. If it's so that all your software, top-to-bottom (excluding the BIOS) is open-source, then get a Lenovo, but if what you want is a better Rails dev environment than Windows, a Mac will do that for you and be less effort in the long run. This is the reason I'm on a Mac, and it's the reason a lot of other open-source or web app developers run Macs as well, and I think it's the secret sauce that's made a big difference in Apple's sales numbers - geeks buy, then geeks recommend.
zmmmmm 16y ago
I like the backhand sleight towards Microsoft as well: the project now has the backing of three of the biggest names in software Hmm, who could they be?
stcredzero 16y ago
Woah there cowboy! A bit of humility maybe? I think if they added "humility" to that list, it would've crossed a line.
xyi 16y ago
Expecting humility from human beings is understandable. But why do you expect a company to be humble? Can you name companies that you think are humble?

by pluies 16y ago

brown9-2 16y ago

Just goes to show how meaningless "open" has become.

brudgers 16y ago
"Open" as in "Open for business."
- bl4k 16y ago
  and 'Open to taking your money'

tertius 16y ago

I'm no fanboy, believe me. But most of that is pretty accurate.

kevindication 16y ago
The iPad is magical?
- larsberg 16y ago
  Indeed. And seemingly animate as well, since it "is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices." Would've thought that was the folks making and using them, but hey, I'm not the one wearing the turtlenecks. (And yes, I own an iPad. But probably not the one that is going around defining things. Other than words. With a dictionary app.)
  - apl 16y ago
    It's an absolutely acceptable use of the verb "define." There's nothing about it that requires an animate subject.
- brudgers 16y ago
  To the same degree that the other statements are accurate.
- andreyf 16y ago
  Yes, for at least one definition of magical: beautiful or delightful in such a way as to seem removed from everyday life.
- chc 16y ago
  A lot of people do have that reaction to it, yes.
- jonhendry 16y ago
  People using them with their autistic or otherwise-disabled kids seem to think the iPad is as close to magical as you're likely to find in the real world.
pkirk 16y ago
I'm no a meta-fanboy, believe me. But a real fanboy would have written that comment too.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  Meta-fanboy = a fan of "meta"? Meta-fanboy = a fan of fanboys? Meta-feta fanboy = those who admire the processing of Mediterranean cheese.
fjh 16y ago
Too meaningless to be false is hardly the same as "pretty accurate".

GHFigs 16y ago

A bit of humility maybe? Why? If you think your product is the best, say so. If you think your product is revolutionary, say so. If you think your product is magical, say so. If you think your product is defining the future, say so. The only reason I can see to criticize a PR footer like that is if you think the company doesn't actually think of itself that way and is just trying to bullshit the reader.

tertius 16y ago
As a side note, I wouldn't call Apple products "magical", maybe to the extent that they make people's money disappear. But that can be explained, somehow, without magic too. I think the focus of his reply should have been on Jobs' giant ego, which is undeniable.
- ugh 16y ago
  I really don't understand why so many “techy” people freak out as soon as Apple dares to use the word “magical”. That's certainly much better than calling everything “innovative” and it is self explanatory if you don't play stupid. Apple deserves to be lauded for not using overly boring adjectives once in their boilerplate blurb.
  - RickHull 16y ago
    > Apple deserves to be lauded for not using overly boring adjectives once in their boilerplate blurb. Plaudits for using hyperbole? Oh laud, gag me with a spoon, please.
    - ugh 16y ago
      If a company wants to dazzle me with bombastic statements they can at least try to not be boring. (I’m also not sure whether it’s hyperbole. I would guess that many people working at Apple actually believe the boilerplate. That might make them deluded but not hyperbolic.)
      - deleted 16y ago

gaius 16y ago

You're using the wrong definition. "Open" in this context is the same as OpenVMS, Openstep, OpenLook, Openview, yadda yadda. Open standard, not open source.

joe_the_user 16y ago
Which only demonstrates that "openness-abuse" has been with us for many years...

tzs 16y ago

Well, considering that whenever someone posts on a technical forum (such as HN) asking what laptop to get to run Linux, they receive a lot of recommendations that they get Macs, I don't think "best personal computers in the world" is too far out of line for Apple to claim. iPods completely dominate portable music playback, and the iTunes store is one of the biggest sellers of music in the world (didn't they take #1 a while back?). That would justify "leads the digital music revolution". Take a look at Android's UI design before the iPhone came out, and compare to after iPhone. Look familiar? Take a similar look at mobile app sales before and after iPhone. "Revolutionary" is an acceptable claim, considering how much the mobile phone industry changed in direct response to the iPhone. That leaves the iPad, the only one on the list they may have overhyped in the press release. Sure, it blows away every other attempt at a tablet so far, but most of the other table makers trying to capitalize on the iPad's success seem to be aiming for smaller tablets, so we can't yet say the iPad is "defining the future".

bubbleboy 16y ago
apple laptops ≠ linux machines. in fact, most of the new macbooks are quite hard to get running on something modern like ubuntu 10.4 LTS, and just because OSX is a derivative of BSD doesn't make it friendly with current linux versions. especially those macbooks with "automatic graphics switching" and the like. sure you can boot, but all the [proprietary] advanced [closed] features that apple adds don't really function at all. linux is great on a 2 year old macbook, however.
- danudey 16y ago
  I think the reason that people suggest Mac over Linux for laptops is that 1. Apple makes really good laptops. They're solid, they're lightweight, they're not creaky and they don't feel cheap; 2. You can do anything on OS X that you can on Linux (e.g. running bash, RoR, Python scripting, most open-source software). This is a big part of the reason geeks are moving in large volumes to the Mac: you can have your laptop, you can compile and run Apache or PHP, install gems, test Rails, and it's all just as effortless as in Linux (or, depending on the Linux distro, even more so). What you don't have to do is re-configure X or your nvidia drivers when a 'yum update' does a kernel upgrade, and you suddenly find yourself without X for ten minutes while you find and run the nvidia kernel module builder/installer (a problem everyone in my office had every few weeks at one company). A lot of stuff just works effortlessly, and while this is getting better in Linux, there's still a lot of 'gotchas' that crop up out of nowhere because some company or some developer just doesn't care. It's not a question of 'You want Linux, buy a Mac and run Linux on it', it's a question of asking why the user wants Linux. If it's so that all your software, top-to-bottom (excluding the BIOS) is open-source, then get a Lenovo, but if what you want is a better Rails dev environment than Windows, a Mac will do that for you and be less effort in the long run. This is the reason I'm on a Mac, and it's the reason a lot of other open-source or web app developers run Macs as well, and I think it's the secret sauce that's made a big difference in Apple's sales numbers - geeks buy, then geeks recommend.

zmmmmm 16y ago

I like the backhand sleight towards Microsoft as well: the project now has the backing of three of the biggest names in software Hmm, who could they be?

stcredzero 16y ago

Woah there cowboy! A bit of humility maybe? I think if they added "humility" to that list, it would've crossed a line.

xyi 16y ago

Expecting humility from human beings is understandable. But why do you expect a company to be humble? Can you name companies that you think are humble?