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Dyson moves vacuum giant's HQ to Singapore
- jayalpha 8y agoDyson, a big Brexit supporter, plans also to build an electric car, in Singapore: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/23/dyson-to-build-electric-cars-in-singapore-with-launch-planned-for-2021 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/23/dyson-to-... By the way, Singapore has an EU free trade agreement. I respect engineering and entrepreneurship. But he sounds like a hypocrite. I don't consider buying any of his products.
- rayiner 8y agoI don't see the hypocrisy. Does the Singapore-EU trade agreement give EU citizens the right to vote on laws that will be binding upon Singaporeans? Or give EU citizens the right to reside and work in Singapore? If not, there is no hypocrisy in supporting Brexit while relocating to Singapore. It is disingenuous to portray the EU as merely a trade organization. It may have started out that way, but today it is a supra-national government, capable of binding the citizens of member states to laws those citizens oppose (just as, e.g., the United States federal government can bind citizens of Alabama to laws those citizens oppose). See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_(European_Union) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_(European_Union)
- graeme 8y agoThat seems the wrong question. The better question is: why did he stay in britain while it was in the EU, and why is he leaving now that the UK is leaving the EU? Especially as he advocated that leaving would improve trade and industry. The answer might be as simple as: "Signapore was the right place and we were planning this move before Brexit was on the horizon" But it certainly gives the appearance that Brexit is bad for business and he doesn't want to operate with the consequences of the policy he advocated.
- switch007 8y agoNot to be a pedant, and it it doesn't invalidate your comment, and probably for the benefit of others, but the UK is still in the EU.
- graeme 8y agoThanks, fixed it. Had meant to write leaving and not in.
- zeroname 8y agoIn the short run, Brexit will be bad for business, especially if it happens as uncoordinated as it looks now. In the long run, nobody knows, but at least there's potential to negotiate favorable deals without dealing with the EU.
- jayalpha 8y agoOut of curiosity, what kind of "undiscovered territory" were you thinking about? As posted by me before: a) USA. Very little taxes in trade with the EU already. Little to gain with FTA. b) Canada? Okay, but the UK has this Free trade agreement (FTA) already via the EU. c) Mersocur? FTA to be signed with the EU soon. d) Japan und Korea? Have FTAs with EU e) India? Very demanding. Also want easier immigration to the UK in a FTA. Prediction: Will fail. f) Australia? Ok, easy to get. Point for the UK g) China? Possible. But only goods, since China loves to export goods. Financial services? Forget about it. Also, trust me, the Chinese have not forgotten the Opium war. Also the recent Ship of the Royal Navy in disputed waters did not help. h) Africa. Many (economically) small countries. Not all countries have ties to the UK. i) Russia/CIS. This the UK could get but this they don't want. So?
- fmajid 8y agoe) is particularly egregious, as it is given as an example of how the EU is hobbling the UK. In fact the EU-India FTA negotiations failed because of British intransigence on the Indian demand for streamlined (non-immigrant) visas, vetoed by the then UK Home Secretary,... Theresa May.
- jashmatthews 8y agoFTAs aren’t magically more democratic. The loss of control of our own law was a major issue for New Zealand signing the Trans Pacific Partnership. FTAs also bind countries to laws the citizens may oppose and even if changing a law is OK, it might still result in an expensive investor state dispute at a court of arbitration.
- rayiner 8y agoI don't know how FTA's work in New Zealand, but in the U.S., any treaty must be "implemented" by domestic legislation (except for in narrow cases where the subject matter falls within executive discretion to begin with). In the EU, by contrast, a regulation can be imposed on the citizens of a particular member nation even if those citizens' representatives oppose it. To give an example, if the U.S. entered into an FTA requiring a $15 minimum wage, that provision would be ineffective until Congress passed a law making that the minimum wage. But Congress could impose a $15 minimum wage effective in Alabama, even if every Alabama Senator and Congressman opposed it. EU regulations are like the latter.
- fmajid 8y agoThat's just false. CETA, the recent EU-Canada FTA had to be ratified by all national parliaments, and in the case of Belgium, by provincial parliaments as well.
- rayiner 8y agoThe EU has multiple forms of laws, some of which require ratification by the national parliaments and some of which don't. EU Regulations are the equivalent of Acts of the United States Congress--they have automatic effect in all member states and override any conflicting national law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_(European_Union) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_(European_Union). Treaties have their own intricacies, but they do not necessarily require ratification either. The EC initially asserted that CETA did not require ratification by the national governments, but backed down citing the "political situation": http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7492/CBP-7492.pdf http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7... (page 13). I think many EU supporters really don't understand the sweeping powers of the EU. All the legal underpinnings are in place to turn the EU member countries into demi-sovereigns inferior to an EU government, just as happened to the U.S. states. They may be used sparingly now, but Brussels is getting bolder all the time.
- fenk85 8y agoJames Dyson in June 2016 during the referendum campaign: “We will create more wealth and more jobs by being outside the EU.” hypocrisy ^
- jimnotgym 8y agoWhat if I added that the original reason Dyson cited for moving to Singapore was the failure of Britain to join the euro? That sounds like hypocrisy to me https://www.theguardian.com/business/2000/nov/05/theobserver.observerbusiness4 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2000/nov/05/theobserver...
- robdachshund 8y agoIn that case I'd argue that he's saying Britain's economy did not get to benefit much from the EU as they did not adopt the currency, and as such he's moving his manufacturing to Singapore. Him being against Brexit doesn't mean he thinks that pulling out of the EU will fix things in the UK overnight, especially when he was already critical of the economy and industries. The UK has also still not pulled out of the EU and seems hell bent on ignoring the referendum. He probably needed a change sooner rather than later. He might be selling luxury vacuums but a lot of that price is probably building them domestically. If he wants to move supply chains, what is he supposed to do? Wait until the UK leaves the EU and wait even longer for the economy to stabilize? Even if he is a hypocrite, what does that matter? He can do whatever the hell he wants.
- rchaud 8y agoI wish I could locate it now, but Dyson has penned a number of op-eds in the Guardian about the "skills gap" and how it's hard to hire in the UK because there aren't enough programmers, engineers etc. In the comments, people were asking, "Have you considered increasing employee compensation?" I think we all know the answer to that.
- jen20 8y agoThis is not an isolated incident when it comes to vocal supporters of Brexit. For example, Jacob Rees-Mogg's financial services company recently set up a fund in the Republic of Ireland to ensure continuing access to the European Market [1]. A simple look into Dyson's past (particularly with regards to the "Dyson Academy" in Bath) should tell you all you need to know about the man. His products are mostly garbage too - not a screw to be found. [1]: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-jacob-rees-mogg-scm-ireland-city-move-eu-withdrawal-dublin-a8398041.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-jacob-...
- phyalow 8y agoI fail to see the proported hypocrisy with Rees-Mogg, of course Somerset Capital would establish an EEA entity, dont forget they have BVI, US and Asian based funds too. have you seen the Dyson hair dryer? Phenomenal product. Who said you need a screw for anything (See the Mathematical Bridge in Cambridge).
- philbarr 8y agoIf Brexit was great for Britain, he would clearly be investing more in Britain. But he isn't. Hence the hypocrisy.
- phyalow 8y agoThey have multiple UK oriented funds already, who is to say they wont be shorting EU listed assets from the Dublin fund? Also its Somersets investors who decide to invest in Funds, the fund manager merely provide the oppurtunity for investment. Your analysis between opening a offshore fund and Rees-Moggs Brexit motivations are tenuous at best.
- lwhi 8y agoThe man reeks of self interest. That should tell you most of what you need to know.
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- zeroname 8y agoWhere exactly is the hypocrisy? Singapore has been touted as a model on how to organize trade after Brexit. Of course you want a trade deal with the EU after Brexit. One major problem with being in the EU is that it forces the UK to uphold tariffs and tariff-like restrictions on imports from non-EU countries. Singapore itself has little to no tariffs. With a hard Brexit, those deals simply won't exist yet, so it's wise to move to place where they do exist.
- philbarr 8y agoThe hypocrisy is based on the fact he loudly supported Brexit saying that we would be better off outside the EU because of how awesome the UK could do by itself, before moving everything to Singapore. He clearly cares not in the least about the UK. I will never buy any of his products ever again.
- zeroname 8y agoIf he didn't care about the UK then why would he vocally support a Brexit? That's a clear contradiction. To put it another way, I can argue for a better business environment in my home country while simultaneously having all my business in a country that actually has such an environment.
- blibble 8y agoyou've got your sequence of events wrong there: - 2003: moves his manufacturing base of the UK/EU - 2016: says we'd be better off outside (like his manufacturing base is currently) - 2019: moves legal HQ (and two jobs) outside of the UK
- blibble 8y ago> By the way, Singapore has an EU free trade agreement this would seem to be irrelevant to today's decision as Dyson ceased EU manufacturing in 2003 today they're moving the legal HQ, with two jobs being relocated
- mcv 8y ago> I respect engineering and entrepreneurship. But he sounds like a hypocrite. I don't consider buying any of his products. I've got one of his products, but I had no idea then that he was like this.
- devy 8y agoI own at 5 Dyson products, most of them from manufacturer refurbished programs (otherwise it's way out of my expenditure range for appliances). They are at best overrated. Take an example of Cyclone Vacuum, the brand newer Hoover cyclone vacs sold at HomeDepot I got last Black Friday for $70 is working as good but it's at least 4x cheaper. Their air circulation fan/heater isn't as great as 5x of the price tag than competitors. Same with their blowdryers. In short, they are hugely overpriced. Oh and, they use cheap plastic too - the air vent stand got cracked on winter and again the replacement parts are a fortune to buy.
- CaveTech 8y agoProduct pricing isn't linear with features/abilities. If you want the best X per $ spent you'll almost always arrive at lower quality version. There are premiums to be paid for even minor improvements.
- devy 8y agoTruth of the matter is, Dyson doesn't have any major feature ability their competitor cannot copy. Sure their patented electric motor design might be more advanced 10 years ago, but not any more! IMO, Tesla makes most advanced electric motors in the planet, since Tesla open their patent portfolio, many Taiwanese ODMs are making them cheaply available. I am not even not talking about knockoffs. Dyson lost their edges.
- clouddrover 8y ago> IMO, Tesla makes most advanced electric motors in the planet I'd say BMW's Formula E motor is better than Tesla's motors today: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0288425EN/the-bmw-ife-18-drivetrain:-unprecedented-teamwork-between-motorsport-and-production-development?language=en https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T028842... It's not a completely valid comparison because it's a racing motor, but it will be the basis of the motor used in BMW's future production cars. We'll have to wait to see how good the production version is. And by the time it comes out Tesla may also have improved their motor.
- kodablah 8y agoI don't see this as hypocrisy any more than someone accepting a tax cut via policy from a politician they voted against. In fact, if anything, what Brexit has shown me is that there is one side that only sees things in black and white. You can be against something as a whole but in favor of some parts of it. The EU is a great example where many who champion Brexit may be in favor of shared economic benefits and against not-strictly-economic political costs.
- brobdingnagians 8y agoFrom what I know, even most of the Brexit supporters are supportive of the economic benefits of the EU and would like to keep those, they are wary of the "ever closer integration" with things like the ideas for European Military, which, surprise surprise, popped up today [1]. So favouring Brexit is not the same as wanting to discontinue all relationships or economic incentives; they just don't want to be pulled closer into what the EU could become in the near future. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46908205 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46908205
- fmajid 8y agoIt's very easy to advocate for something when you are not sticking around to suffer the consequences.
- jimnotgym 8y agoI am not all that impressed with Dyson vacuum cleaners vs say Meile. A bit too much form, a bit to little function. Dyson himself is not one of my favourite people. This move seems very hypocritical.
- sleavey 8y agoThere are a couple of YouTube videos from AvE (he takes a bit of getting used to, but he knows a fair bit about electronics) about a Dyson vacuum cleaner [1] and hair dryer [2]. Lots of moulded plastic and glue, little substance. On the other hand, Miele recently repaired an old vacuum cleaner [3] that worked for 30 years before breaking. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPTzNJMd19A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPTzNJMd19A [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-vJxez9UF8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-vJxez9UF8 [3] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34290597 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34290597
- bb101 8y agoI agree. When our cleaner started with us, we had the latest Dyson vacuum. We asked what she would prefer and she asked for a Miele. The Miele is still going strong ten years later, whereas the Dyson broke sometime after its second repair (lots and lots of brittle plastic).
- pkulak 8y agoI don't even understand the premise of bagless being better than bagged. I had a Dyson for a long time and cleaning out that container was always a huge mess. And it had to be done constantly. I've got a Miele now and it's quiet, cleans better, built like a tank, and swapping out the bag takes 20 seconds once every couple months.
- Kip9000 8y agoBrexit will only affect the ordinary working class and the poor. The rich who funds this debacle will always have options cope or profit from it.
- aidenn0 8y agoMost changes to the status-quo will negatively affect the poor, because they are the most vulnerable.
- Barrin92 8y agoThis seems to be a typical combination in a lot of countries nowadays. A donor class that advocate for populist policies with well funded advertisement campaigns that speak to the grievances of poor or less educated voters, ("hundreds of millions for the NHS!"), who then promptly pack their bag and leave as reality sets in, because as we all know capital is very flexible. The misled voters however are not and cannot suddenly pick up a new career in Singapore or in the PR department of a big company, so they will have to foot the bill.
- dschuetz 8y agoWait, he'd rather support another country's economy with his faster growing business than the economy of his own country and earn more money there/elsewhere, while supporting the opposite? Err? No, his statement doesn't make any sense which basically means it's a lie. His decision comes conveniently right after the house vote and May's failure to convince the MPs to take the EU deal. I suppose he is not such a Brexiteer after all.
- nbevans 8y agoHe is a Brexiteer who has seen the writing on the wall. That Brexit is being thwarted and the probability of escaping the EU reducing every week. He is a realist and a businessman and a Brexiteer. He would have loved to have seen Brexit realised, I'm sure, but it wasn't to be. As such he now needs to turn his attentions to a Plan B - to secure his businesses in better free trading less bureaucratic locations - in this case Singapore.
- jimnotgym 8y agoHe originally said he was moving to Singapore because Britain wouldn't join the Euro! He seems rather confused.. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2000/nov/05/theobserver.observerbusiness4 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2000/nov/05/theobserver...
- yomly 8y agoDoes anyone have any insight it is like to work in Singapore as a developer if you've previously worked in the West? How are salaries? How is the work culture? Is the industry growing such that moving there would be a good career play?
- rch 8y agoWell, it's the only place where I've had to randomly hand over my passport to guards holding machine guns. Cambodia and Vietnam were much friendlier (although not necessarily safer).
- pytester 8y agoI have. The salaries are low by western standards. I tripled my income coming back to the UK. The work culture is shitty. Long hours are routine. Developers are cogs in the machine. The boss is always right. You need to do things by the book. There's a hard class distinction between "worker bees" (includes developers) and "managers". Those managers were typically clueless about tech, also, which made interviewing a crapshoot.
- hnick 8y agoThis matches what the people I know said. It will of course depend on the company. Facebook has a significant presence there now, I've only met one person there but they were a local and said it's very atypical of the Singapore experience (the office was nearly empty at 5pm).
- jesterson 8y agoGlobal companies like FB or Google bring global work culture in Singapore, so general assumptions about work might not apply to them. They are notorious here for paying below average salaries though
- jesterson 8y ago> The salaries are low by western standards. I tripled my income coming back to the UK. This is true. Maybe not three times lower, but salaries are lower comparing to UK/US. > The work culture is shitty. Long hours are routine. Developers are cogs in the machine. The boss is always right. You need to do things by the book. True. The last sentence applies mostly to local companies. > There's a hard class distinction between "worker bees" (includes developers) and "managers". As everywhere else. > Those managers were typically clueless about tech, also, which made interviewing a crapshoot. Disagree. Share of incompetent managers is close to share of incompetent developers. Hiring a skilled, knowledgeable, self-organised developer is very hard. Source: I am a manager :)
- nbevans 8y agoThe Remainers are desperate to portray this as hypocrisy by Sir James Dyson. It is actually the opposite. He has been moving more and more of his business out of the EU and UK to Singapore over the last 10-15 years and moving the headquarters is the final step. It is a ringing endorsement to what global free trade can do instead of protectionism, over-regulation and misplaced political projects such as the single currency. And Singapore was consistently held up as an example of what Brexit Britain could be like. Sir James Dyson has given up on Britain because, all things considered, he realises it will be many more years yet until a Clean Brexit is realised in the UK. And even then, it could be decades - judging by the displayed ineptitude of our political class - for the UK to catch up on the head start that Singapore has for high-tech.
- jimnotgym 8y agoHe already was a hypocrite. His previous excuses for moving manufacturing to Singapore include Britain not joining the Euro (the European single currency). So the timeline 1) "I need to move to Singapore because Britain is not close enough to the EU" 2) "I want Britain to leave the EU" 3) "I am moving to Singapore anyway, so long suckers" https://www.theguardian.com/business/2000/nov/05/theobserver.observerbusiness4 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2000/nov/05/theobserver...
- nbevans 8y agoThat was said by him in 2000 - the Lisbon treaty was 2009. In 2000 the only path possible for the UK and EU was "further integration". There was no ability to exit i.e. there was no Article 50. One can imagine if exiting the EU was possible in 2000 he would have worked that into his comments at the time. As far as he was concerned he had a problem exporting products from the UK because of the strong sterling, most particularly in comparison to the Euro. He needed a solution. Joining the Euro was a possible solution at the time. The EU also had no trade agreements with countries like Singapore or Japan in 2000 either - or even 2009 for that matter - further reducing his strategic options.
- 7952 8y agoI think it is unfair to expect a PR strategy to be intellectually consistent. And that is what Dyson is founded on. Dyson is a ringing endorsement of Britain as a marketing and PR powerhouse. They made people across the world believe a story that sold millions of mediocre vacuums. It is a huge success that we should be proud of. But it has little to do with the virtues that Dyson likes to project. In that sense it is a good parallel to brexit. A PR blitz designed to push bullshit.
- lgleason 8y agoHis products used to be good. These days they are over priced, poorly made and fall apart quickly.
- ChuckMcM 8y agoI am always amazed at corporate communications that are so inartfully constructed. The two statements "Dyson’s company said the move ... was not driven by Britain’s looming departure from the European Union or tax implications" and "the move was aimed at 'future proofing' Dyson." As I read it the second statement says "Stuff keeps changing in Britain and we can't be sure its going to be good for our company so we're pulling up stakes." And what has changed recently in Britain, oh I don't know, all the Brexit stuff maybe? I wish companies would own their decisions but they never do when they can't spin them well.
- m0llusk 8y agoI used to do a lot of housecleaning for family and friends and recommended Dyson vacuums for their strength and robustness. Since then I have got into professional housecleaning and have found Dyson vacuums to be a terrible curse. They are aggressively priced which makes people emotionally invested in them beyond reason. They are typically too strong such that even skilled users get overwhelmed and damage fringes and drapes and anything that isn't super strong that gets too close. Although they may have been built to a high standard when introduced current models have many parts made with vulnerable plastic connectors. As such used Dysons tend to be coming apart in various places and tend to be difficult to use because their unusual mass and strength puts extra stress on the small plastic connectors they are built with. If you want to clean up for a reasonable price without a lot of unnecessary complications then staying away from Dyson products is a good first step. If they are going to be charging that much and putting that much design work into them then they should be advancing robustness and ease of repair. For the fraction of a single Dyson I keep a fleet of Sanitaire vacuums working over a period of many years because all of their components are reasonably designed and can be simply swapped out upon failure.