8 ms·

"easily replaceable service" Yeah. It's called "cash" and "checks".

by rfinney 8y ago

seattle_spring 8y ago
Just like Tesla would be easily replaceable with "horse" and "buggy".
- miluge 8y ago
  But Tesla doesnt have a monopoly...
  - FiveSquared 8y ago
    But cars do over walking and biking!
vvillena 8y ago
Yeah, in the same way that a washing machine can be replaced by a river and a piece of wood. As the parent comment explains, nearly every electronic money system in Europe uses Visa or Mastercard as a backend, creating a unhealthy duopoly. The free market needs some competition so it can thrive.
- blattimwind 8y ago
  AIUI the two largely act as a fallback and the relevant interbank network (e.g. Girocard) is used directly if possible.
- Someone 8y ago
  ”nearly every electronic money system in Europe uses Visa or Mastercard as a backend” I think that’s nearly every credit card system. Many countries have debit card systems that, AFAIK 100% outside of Visa and MasterCard, traditionally work across most banks in the countries, and nowadays work across the Single European Payment Area (28 EU countries plus six others. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area).
bluejekyll 8y ago
I’ve always found the difference between cash and credit to be a wash in terms of ease of use. For cash you need to always make sure you stop by an ATM. For credit you have to wait for a receipt after nearly every transaction, and sign (this is changing with chipped cards). But ApplePay is actually more pleasant than both. I can pay with my phone and my watch. It is a faster transaction than both cash and credit, and no need to pull my wallet out. With one big exception! There are a few places in the city that are starting to only accept credit/applepay/etc., but when their terminals go offline, they’re screwed. I saw this exact thing, for some reason they had no backup system to accept cash. I assume this is a rare issue, but still, I couldn’t believe they couldn’t resort to cash.
- rtkwe 8y ago
  > I saw this exact thing, for some reason they had no backup system to accept cash To accept cash as a back up you have to have all the items in place to accept it all the time basically. You need the register and to have enough cash on hand to cover giving change plus the accounting and tracking at the end of the day to make sure cash hasn't walked. So if a place has the ability to accept cash intermittently they might as well accept it always.
  - dalore 8y ago
    For those that don't handle cash, they could get some sort of insurance to make up for lost business (and any brand damage) if the machines go down.
  - bluejekyll 8y ago
    Yeah, I realized that something along those lines is the issue. It's still surprising when a business can't operate in a situation like this.
- e12e 8y ago
  At least in Norway most visa debit (and/or credit) cards now come with nfc/"tap" payment up to a certain amount (10-15 usd I think) - with no need for chip&pin for "Small" transactions. Has some issues wrt theft (portable pay terminal with boosted nfc signal/antenna) - but certainly convenient.
SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
"checks" being a clearly inferior option. While they are convenient they are fraught with fraud / bank balance issues, and add risk to the merchant and to the customer. They also take longer than any of the other options to create as well.

"easily replaceable service" Yeah. It's called "cash" and "checks".

seattle_spring 8y ago

Just like Tesla would be easily replaceable with "horse" and "buggy".

miluge 8y ago
But Tesla doesnt have a monopoly...
- FiveSquared 8y ago
  But cars do over walking and biking!

vvillena 8y ago

Yeah, in the same way that a washing machine can be replaced by a river and a piece of wood. As the parent comment explains, nearly every electronic money system in Europe uses Visa or Mastercard as a backend, creating a unhealthy duopoly. The free market needs some competition so it can thrive.

blattimwind 8y ago
AIUI the two largely act as a fallback and the relevant interbank network (e.g. Girocard) is used directly if possible.
Someone 8y ago
”nearly every electronic money system in Europe uses Visa or Mastercard as a backend” I think that’s nearly every credit card system. Many countries have debit card systems that, AFAIK 100% outside of Visa and MasterCard, traditionally work across most banks in the countries, and nowadays work across the Single European Payment Area (28 EU countries plus six others. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area).

bluejekyll 8y ago

I’ve always found the difference between cash and credit to be a wash in terms of ease of use. For cash you need to always make sure you stop by an ATM. For credit you have to wait for a receipt after nearly every transaction, and sign (this is changing with chipped cards). But ApplePay is actually more pleasant than both. I can pay with my phone and my watch. It is a faster transaction than both cash and credit, and no need to pull my wallet out. With one big exception! There are a few places in the city that are starting to only accept credit/applepay/etc., but when their terminals go offline, they’re screwed. I saw this exact thing, for some reason they had no backup system to accept cash. I assume this is a rare issue, but still, I couldn’t believe they couldn’t resort to cash.

rtkwe 8y ago
> I saw this exact thing, for some reason they had no backup system to accept cash To accept cash as a back up you have to have all the items in place to accept it all the time basically. You need the register and to have enough cash on hand to cover giving change plus the accounting and tracking at the end of the day to make sure cash hasn't walked. So if a place has the ability to accept cash intermittently they might as well accept it always.
- dalore 8y ago
  For those that don't handle cash, they could get some sort of insurance to make up for lost business (and any brand damage) if the machines go down.
- bluejekyll 8y ago
  Yeah, I realized that something along those lines is the issue. It's still surprising when a business can't operate in a situation like this.
e12e 8y ago
At least in Norway most visa debit (and/or credit) cards now come with nfc/"tap" payment up to a certain amount (10-15 usd I think) - with no need for chip&pin for "Small" transactions. Has some issues wrt theft (portable pay terminal with boosted nfc signal/antenna) - but certainly convenient.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago

"checks" being a clearly inferior option. While they are convenient they are fraught with fraud / bank balance issues, and add risk to the merchant and to the customer. They also take longer than any of the other options to create as well.