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Capitalism means there’s a diversity of products and they are ALL bad. We need collectivization to actually produce software that primarily benefits the user.

by drb91 8y ago

briandear 8y ago
If we want the equivalent of 1987 Aeroflot, then sure, let’s do that. If the products are all bad, what’s stopping you from making a good one? You’d be a billionaire overnight, assuming the market agrees that they are all bad. I’ve used France’s government sponsored taxi app and it doesn’t come close to Uber’s. I’ve ridden in public buses and they don’t come close to the private FAANG shuttles in Silicon Valley. If you build technology optimized for everyone, that means it’s necessarily optimized for no one. As far as messaging apps, iMessage benefits me greatly. The premise that apps don’t benefit the user is flawed: if they didn’t benefit the user, nobody would use it — except government, we have no choice on using government or not. If the government meets 99 people’s needs, but doesn’t meet my needs, I’m stuck. I can’t switch to an alternative. If an app meets 99 people’s needs but not mine, I can switch to an alternative or build my own. Nothing is stopping you and your friends from building the most amazing messaging app ever. From someone who grew up remember Lada and Yugo, my faith in collectivism in product development is admittedly thin. Very few products from Soviet era factories were any good, I have no expectation that a government built Messaging service would be any better.
- drb91 8y ago
  > what’s stopping you from making a good one? You’d be a billionaire overnight, This is exactly the problem with this site: no good tools made anyone rich. There’s a reason I am having this discussion on HN: People should separate the building of valuable things from the pursuit of riches. Those two are inherently contradictory, and we have nothing but closed mediocre technology making someone rich who barely worked at all. I believe cooperatives, collectives, and trade unions should be discussed more here. Nothing about Yelp is hard to build, and yet it’s a piece of crap, but the only piece of crap we have. Capitalism is a future of absolute mediocrity, where your needs are considered proportional to your wealth.
- krageon 8y ago
  I'm sure both of your positions have merit, however I do think it's a bit disingenuous to claim that a capitalist system rewards a good solution in any way. It rewards good marketing.

Capitalism means there’s a diversity of products and they are ALL bad. We need collectivization to actually produce software that primarily benefits the user.

by drb91 8y ago

Capitalism means there’s a diversity of products and they are ALL bad. We need collectivization to actually produce software that primarily benefits the user.

briandear 8y ago

If we want the equivalent of 1987 Aeroflot, then sure, let’s do that. If the products are all bad, what’s stopping you from making a good one? You’d be a billionaire overnight, assuming the market agrees that they are all bad. I’ve used France’s government sponsored taxi app and it doesn’t come close to Uber’s. I’ve ridden in public buses and they don’t come close to the private FAANG shuttles in Silicon Valley. If you build technology optimized for everyone, that means it’s necessarily optimized for no one. As far as messaging apps, iMessage benefits me greatly. The premise that apps don’t benefit the user is flawed: if they didn’t benefit the user, nobody would use it — except government, we have no choice on using government or not. If the government meets 99 people’s needs, but doesn’t meet my needs, I’m stuck. I can’t switch to an alternative. If an app meets 99 people’s needs but not mine, I can switch to an alternative or build my own. Nothing is stopping you and your friends from building the most amazing messaging app ever. From someone who grew up remember Lada and Yugo, my faith in collectivism in product development is admittedly thin. Very few products from Soviet era factories were any good, I have no expectation that a government built Messaging service would be any better.

drb91 8y ago
> what’s stopping you from making a good one? You’d be a billionaire overnight, This is exactly the problem with this site: no good tools made anyone rich. There’s a reason I am having this discussion on HN: People should separate the building of valuable things from the pursuit of riches. Those two are inherently contradictory, and we have nothing but closed mediocre technology making someone rich who barely worked at all. I believe cooperatives, collectives, and trade unions should be discussed more here. Nothing about Yelp is hard to build, and yet it’s a piece of crap, but the only piece of crap we have. Capitalism is a future of absolute mediocrity, where your needs are considered proportional to your wealth.
krageon 8y ago
I'm sure both of your positions have merit, however I do think it's a bit disingenuous to claim that a capitalist system rewards a good solution in any way. It rewards good marketing.