4 ms·

I would rather make $500k a year and have "no rights" than have strong labor rights protecting me from being fired from my $50k/year job.

pmiller2 8y ago
Well, do you make 500k? If not, then why not? It’s possible in the US, but the median US household income is 1/8 that. The vast majority of workers, probably including most software engineers, ate better off at $50k but not having to worry about insurance if they get laid off, and getting 3-6 weeks notice when being let go (among other things).
- esoterica 8y ago
  The people pulling bubbly SV comp numbers (i.e. the topic of the thread) are not part of that majority though.
  - jimbokun 8y ago
    Probably not very many of them are making $500k, either.
  - pmiller2 8y ago
    My guess is that a huge majority the software engineers in the Bay Area are making less than half those numbers. If you value pre-IPO options at the proper discount, I would guess a majority make less than $250k. That’s a high total compensation, to be sure, but, given the cost of living, and the value a good engineer can create, it’s not absurd. Full disclosure: I work at a public company (not FAANG) and my TC is under $250k.
fgandiya 8y ago
I doubt the difference would be that dramatic (see Hollywood actors and athletes). Also, what's the point of 500K if you're prohibited from working on personal projects, open source and have non-competes, no vacation out leave time and NDAs to deal with? Maybe if you're willing to deal with it for a few years so you can retire early and loaded?
- esoterica 8y ago
  There are no non-competes in California, and most of the best paying tech companies have decent vacation policies (though maybe not as good as the norm in Sweden). Lots of people have hobbies other than coding, so they wouldn't mind not coding on personal projects after work. Is it really that hard to imagine that people might be willing to make fairly minor sacrifices in exchange for several hundred thousand dollars a year?
  - TACIXAT 8y ago
    >There are no non-competes in California, There are intellectual property assignment agreements though. These basically say "we're a giant tech company and work in a lot of areas, so if you work on a side project in any of those areas, we can assert rights over it cause it competes with us and you probably stole that knowledge from us, or thought about it on work time, or something". >and most of the best paying tech companies have decent vacation policies You get 15 days at Google for the first 5 years (even if you come in with experience). I'm not really impressed by this. I will probably never see 20 days of vacation from Google. Cisco had 20 for everyone. Other companies may vary. >Lots of people have hobbies other than coding This is not the case for me. I play some video games and I write code. I like programming more because it feels productive, games are fun though. >Is it really that hard to imagine that people might be willing to make fairly minor sacrifices in exchange for several hundred thousand dollars a year? It's not hard to imagine that (it's how I ended up where I am), but now that I'm in the situation I don't really like it.
    - potato1234 8y ago
      Correction: 0-3 years: 15 days 3-5: 20 days 5+: 25 days
  - fgandiya 8y ago
    Issue is will you actually get those several hundred thousands for just "fairly minor sacrifices".

pmiller2 8y ago

Well, do you make 500k? If not, then why not? It’s possible in the US, but the median US household income is 1/8 that. The vast majority of workers, probably including most software engineers, ate better off at $50k but not having to worry about insurance if they get laid off, and getting 3-6 weeks notice when being let go (among other things).

esoterica 8y ago
The people pulling bubbly SV comp numbers (i.e. the topic of the thread) are not part of that majority though.
- jimbokun 8y ago
  Probably not very many of them are making $500k, either.
- pmiller2 8y ago
  My guess is that a huge majority the software engineers in the Bay Area are making less than half those numbers. If you value pre-IPO options at the proper discount, I would guess a majority make less than $250k. That’s a high total compensation, to be sure, but, given the cost of living, and the value a good engineer can create, it’s not absurd. Full disclosure: I work at a public company (not FAANG) and my TC is under $250k.

fgandiya 8y ago

I doubt the difference would be that dramatic (see Hollywood actors and athletes). Also, what's the point of 500K if you're prohibited from working on personal projects, open source and have non-competes, no vacation out leave time and NDAs to deal with? Maybe if you're willing to deal with it for a few years so you can retire early and loaded?

esoterica 8y ago
There are no non-competes in California, and most of the best paying tech companies have decent vacation policies (though maybe not as good as the norm in Sweden). Lots of people have hobbies other than coding, so they wouldn't mind not coding on personal projects after work. Is it really that hard to imagine that people might be willing to make fairly minor sacrifices in exchange for several hundred thousand dollars a year?
- TACIXAT 8y ago
  >There are no non-competes in California, There are intellectual property assignment agreements though. These basically say "we're a giant tech company and work in a lot of areas, so if you work on a side project in any of those areas, we can assert rights over it cause it competes with us and you probably stole that knowledge from us, or thought about it on work time, or something". >and most of the best paying tech companies have decent vacation policies You get 15 days at Google for the first 5 years (even if you come in with experience). I'm not really impressed by this. I will probably never see 20 days of vacation from Google. Cisco had 20 for everyone. Other companies may vary. >Lots of people have hobbies other than coding This is not the case for me. I play some video games and I write code. I like programming more because it feels productive, games are fun though. >Is it really that hard to imagine that people might be willing to make fairly minor sacrifices in exchange for several hundred thousand dollars a year? It's not hard to imagine that (it's how I ended up where I am), but now that I'm in the situation I don't really like it.
  - potato1234 8y ago
    Correction: 0-3 years: 15 days 3-5: 20 days 5+: 25 days
- fgandiya 8y ago
  Issue is will you actually get those several hundred thousands for just "fairly minor sacrifices".