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Well. I live in Sweden and I don't make anywhere close to these values. Not even remotely close. I have been programming for 12 years and I like to think I'm no

Well. I live in Sweden and I don't make anywhere close to these values. Not even remotely close. I have been programming for 12 years and I like to think I'm not half bad at it. So is peak programming just in the valley or should I be worried as well?

eloisant 8y ago
There's the Valley, and in the Valley there's FAANG (Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google). You don't make $400k if you work in an anonymous startup, even in Silicon Valley.
Tade0 8y ago
Poland, 7 years, less than $50k here. If there's any bubble then I don't think it'll affect the "value proposition" that we ultimately are.
- gniv 8y ago
  How much do doctors and lawyers typically make in Poland?
  - Tade0 8y ago
    Lawyers: ~$33k average, partners get up to $200k. Doctors: varies wildly, but $20k seems to be the norm with enough hours. The base salary is outrageously low, so many doctors take additional shifts - especially in private clinics where they are compensated much better. Experienced specialists can count on up to $80k.
- jdmoreira 8y ago
  $50k in Poland? Not bad! This is from payscale.com: Average Mid-Career Software Developer Salary in Stockholm $61,262
  - Tade0 8y ago
    $50k in Poland? Not bad! I was surprised to find that at least in Warsaw this is entirely possible. There's even this ridiculous Facebook group named "Praca dla Programistów - powyżej 20000zł" (Jobs for Programmers - over PLN 20000 - that's monthly) where offers start at ~$64k. I mean, where was all this back in 2014 when I was scraping by for $12k?
magduf 8y ago
It'd be interesting to see a large, comprehensive salary survey of programmers in various countries to see how pay varies by nation.
pmiller2 8y ago
You have a social safety net and actual workers’ rights that make up for at least some of the difference.
- esoterica 8y ago
  I would rather make $500k a year and have "no rights" than have strong labor rights protecting me from being fired from my $50k/year job.
  - pmiller2 8y ago
    Well, do you make 500k? If not, then why not? It’s possible in the US, but the median US household income is 1/8 that. The vast majority of workers, probably including most software engineers, ate better off at $50k but not having to worry about insurance if they get laid off, and getting 3-6 weeks notice when being let go (among other things).
    - esoterica 8y ago
      The people pulling bubbly SV comp numbers (i.e. the topic of the thread) are not part of that majority though.
      - jimbokun 8y ago
        Probably not very many of them are making $500k, either.
      - pmiller2 8y ago
        My guess is that a huge majority the software engineers in the Bay Area are making less than half those numbers. If you value pre-IPO options at the proper discount, I would guess a majority make less than $250k. That’s a high total compensation, to be sure, but, given the cost of living, and the value a good engineer can create, it’s not absurd. Full disclosure: I work at a public company (not FAANG) and my TC is under $250k.
  - fgandiya 8y ago
qdog 8y ago
California is a fairly unique place, even in the U.S. Despite the costs of living there, it continues to attract talent and investment. The job market there is very fluid, as you can work for a competitor or start your own competitor, due to not allowing non-compete clauses to be enforced. I don't know the laws in Sweden, but unless they have an environment similar to California the tech industry is not going to be as strong. That said, at least for me in the U.S., the biggest bump in pay has always been from finding a new job offer.

eloisant 8y ago

There's the Valley, and in the Valley there's FAANG (Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google). You don't make $400k if you work in an anonymous startup, even in Silicon Valley.

Tade0 8y ago

Poland, 7 years, less than $50k here. If there's any bubble then I don't think it'll affect the "value proposition" that we ultimately are.

gniv 8y ago
How much do doctors and lawyers typically make in Poland?
- Tade0 8y ago
  Lawyers: ~$33k average, partners get up to $200k. Doctors: varies wildly, but $20k seems to be the norm with enough hours. The base salary is outrageously low, so many doctors take additional shifts - especially in private clinics where they are compensated much better. Experienced specialists can count on up to $80k.
jdmoreira 8y ago
$50k in Poland? Not bad! This is from payscale.com: Average Mid-Career Software Developer Salary in Stockholm $61,262
- Tade0 8y ago
  $50k in Poland? Not bad! I was surprised to find that at least in Warsaw this is entirely possible. There's even this ridiculous Facebook group named "Praca dla Programistów - powyżej 20000zł" (Jobs for Programmers - over PLN 20000 - that's monthly) where offers start at ~$64k. I mean, where was all this back in 2014 when I was scraping by for $12k?

magduf 8y ago

It'd be interesting to see a large, comprehensive salary survey of programmers in various countries to see how pay varies by nation.

pmiller2 8y ago

You have a social safety net and actual workers’ rights that make up for at least some of the difference.

esoterica 8y ago
I would rather make $500k a year and have "no rights" than have strong labor rights protecting me from being fired from my $50k/year job.
- pmiller2 8y ago
  Well, do you make 500k? If not, then why not? It’s possible in the US, but the median US household income is 1/8 that. The vast majority of workers, probably including most software engineers, ate better off at $50k but not having to worry about insurance if they get laid off, and getting 3-6 weeks notice when being let go (among other things).
  - esoterica 8y ago
    The people pulling bubbly SV comp numbers (i.e. the topic of the thread) are not part of that majority though.
    - jimbokun 8y ago
      Probably not very many of them are making $500k, either.
    - pmiller2 8y ago
      My guess is that a huge majority the software engineers in the Bay Area are making less than half those numbers. If you value pre-IPO options at the proper discount, I would guess a majority make less than $250k. That’s a high total compensation, to be sure, but, given the cost of living, and the value a good engineer can create, it’s not absurd. Full disclosure: I work at a public company (not FAANG) and my TC is under $250k.
- fgandiya 8y ago

qdog 8y ago

California is a fairly unique place, even in the U.S. Despite the costs of living there, it continues to attract talent and investment. The job market there is very fluid, as you can work for a competitor or start your own competitor, due to not allowing non-compete clauses to be enforced. I don't know the laws in Sweden, but unless they have an environment similar to California the tech industry is not going to be as strong. That said, at least for me in the U.S., the biggest bump in pay has always been from finding a new job offer.